The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[kvz5]

I thought was towards Man of Steel and not TDKR, but I could be wrong on that.

So they had writer's block on TDKR...I can understand it, a true and infinite ending is usually the hardest thing for a writer.

It was TDKR because they were discussing too how their struggle with TDKR's 3rd act conceived Goyer's ideas for a Superman movie.

 

[BatLobster]

It was TDKR because they were discussing too how their struggle with TDKR's 3rd act conceived Goyer's ideas for a Superman movie.

*Goyer slams head against wall*

"Dammit, how are we going to explain how Batman escapes the blast radius in time? This would be so much easier if Superman were in this story..."

 

[Anno_Domini]

It was TDKR because they were discussing too how their struggle with TDKR's 3rd act conceived Goyer's ideas for a Superman movie.

I guess. But didn't MOS have third act trouble too? Since the article was on MOS, I thought it was about THAT film, but you could be right.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I guess. But didn't MOS have third act trouble too? Since the article was on MOS, I thought it was about THAT film, but you could be right.

Maybe Goyer got the idea for MOS's third act while writing a pitch for a Flash movie?

 

[BatmanBeyond]

*Goyer slams head against wall*

"Dammit, how are we going to explain how Batman escapes the blast radius in time? This would be so much easier if Superman were in this story..."

lol, that actually seems feasible.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

Am I the only one who finds TDK the weakest of the trilogy?

I know its almost taboo to complain about The Dark Knight, but it has always been my least favorite of the Nolan films. I still really, really like it, but not as much as BB and TDKR.

Some of the complaints for Rises confound me, because they are what I apply more to TDK and not Rises.

To overstuffed: To me Rises built and flowed to much more dramatic and natural climax than TDK did. After the hospital explosion, the pacing for TDK really faltered. Up until that point it was intense and engaging, but after that point it felt like is moving double time to play catch-up before the credits rolled. Two-Faces story suffering for it. Rises manged to keep it's dramatic tension going throughout the runtime for me and it never faltered. Even Talia, who on a first viewing does seem to be a bit tacked on, is much more well rounded on a second watch. All her early scenes and dialogue hint at the reveal at the end.

I think Bale is the weakest link in TDK. He seems stiff and bored a lot of the time and I feel he didn't stand out among Harvey and the Joker like he needed to. And I can't stand how Rachel was written in TDK. I like Maggie G. as an actress but her almost flippant attitude to danger seems totally at odds with the Rachel of BB. She just seems sort of haughty where as Holmes felt more earnest.

So I totally do not agree with the structural issues people have with Rises because I feel it's much more apparent in TDK.

 

[Brain Damage]

Oh, how I love Bale's performance in TDK. Even more, how I love what's done with the Batman character in TDK.

 

[Shikamaru]

Am I the only one who finds TDK the weakest of the trilogy?

I know its almost taboo to complain about The Dark Knight, but it has always been my least favorite of the Nolan films. I still really, really like it, but not as much as BB and TDKR.

Some of the complaints for Rises confound me, because they are what I apply more to TDK and not Rises.

To overstuffed: To me Rises built and flowed to much more dramatic and natural climax than TDK did. After the hospital explosion, the pacing for TDK really faltered. Up until that point it was intense and engaging, but after that point it felt like is moving double time to play catch-up before the credits rolled. Two-Faces story suffering for it. Rises manged to keep it's dramatic tension going throughout the runtime for me and it never faltered. Even Talia, who on a first viewing does seem to be a bit tacked on, is much more well rounded on a second watch. All her early scenes and dialogue hint at the reveal at the end.

I think Bale is the weakest link in TDK. He seems stiff and bored a lot of the time and I feel he didn't stand out among Harvey and the Joker like he needed to. And I can't stand how Rachel was written in TDK. I like Maggie G. as an actress but her almost flippant attitude to danger seems totally at odds with the Rachel of BB. She just seems sort of haughty where as Holmes felt more earnest.

So I totally do not agree with the structural issues people have with Rises because I feel it's much more apparent in TDK.

You should be castrated and burned.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

You should be castrated and burned.

I figured after 5 years TDK fanboys would be more receptive towards thought out criticisms.

 

[Shikamaru]

I figured after 5 years TDK fanboys would be more receptive towards thought out criticisms.

I was joking. Hence the sarcasm icon.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

I was joking. Hence the sarcasm icon.

Sorry. I mistook it for an anger icon.

 

[The Joker]

Oh, how I love Bale's performance in TDK. Even more, how I love what's done with the Batman character in TDK.

Seconded. The Dark Knight Rises made me appreciate BB and TDK even more, because of how flawed it was.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Am I the only one who finds TDK the weakest of the trilogy?

I know its almost taboo to complain about The Dark Knight, but it has always been my least favorite of the Nolan films. I still really, really like it, but not as much as BB and TDKR.

Some of the complaints for Rises confound me, because they are what I apply more to TDK and not Rises.

To overstuffed: To me Rises built and flowed to much more dramatic and natural climax than TDK did. After the hospital explosion, the pacing for TDK really faltered. Up until that point it was intense and engaging, but after that point it felt like is moving double time to play catch-up before the credits rolled. Two-Faces story suffering for it. Rises manged to keep it's dramatic tension going throughout the runtime for me and it never faltered. Even Talia, who on a first viewing does seem to be a bit tacked on, is much more well rounded on a second watch. All her early scenes and dialogue hint at the reveal at the end.

I think Bale is the weakest link in TDK. He seems stiff and bored a lot of the time and I feel he didn't stand out among Harvey and the Joker like he needed to. And I can't stand how Rachel was written in TDK. I like Maggie G. as an actress but her almost flippant attitude to danger seems totally at odds with the Rachel of BB. She just seems sort of haughty where as Holmes felt more earnest.

So I totally do not agree with the structural issues people have with Rises because I feel it's much more apparent in TDK.

It's not wrong at all if you feel this way, and anyone should be fine as well who has their own views on which is the weakest of the trilogy(such as TDKR).

So, yah...no words.

[YT]j04X3B9-dLU[/YT]

 

[JackWhite]

Oh, how I love Bale's performance in TDK. Even more, how I love what's done with the Batman character in TDK.

Damn straight.

I love how everyone else around him is practically losing it throughout the events of the film, yet Bruce is the one trying his hardest to reign himself in.

What's cool about how Bale plays Bats/Bruce in TDK, is he emotes far more when in costume, yet while he is just Bruce he's a lot more reserved; yet you feel the burden of his decisions weighing him down.

Take the press conference for instance, there is a moment where one of the people of Gotham says "he should turn himself in" and they pan back to Bruce and he's got this intense, pensive, glare on his face.

I feel like watching TDK right now, but I've got work tomorrow morning, lol.

 

[JackWhite]

It's not wrong at all if you feel this way, and anyone should be fine as well who has their own views on which is the weakest of the trilogy(such as TDKR).

So, yah...no words.

[YT]j04X3B9-dLU[/YT]

Holy crap. I would love to read that!!

 

[GremlinZilla89]

It's not wrong at all if you feel this way, and anyone should be fine as well who has their own views on which is the weakest of the trilogy(such as TDKR).

So, yah...no words.

[YT]j04X3B9-dLU[/YT]

It just seems around places like a these an opinion that is even slightly against the grain is either mocked outright or treated as laughable utter lunacy.

 

[The Joker]

So, yah...no words.

[YT]j04X3B9-dLU[/YT]

Oh man, that was incredible. The Batman comic fanatic in me spotted several Joker comic panels in his diary:

- Two from the classic 70's Joker story, The Laughing Fish, by Steve Englehart.
- Several from Grant Morrison's Joker story in Batman #663, The Clown at Midnight.

Did you see he also had pics of Alex DeLarge, Joker cards, clown faces, and a photo of a hyena.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'll have to pay attention, but I continue to focus more on the 'Bye Bye' at the very end...brings more than just one tear to my eye.

 

[kvz5]

Seconded. The Dark Knight Rises made me appreciate BB and TDK even more, because of how flawed it was.

That's how I am. I'm a BB fangirl through and through (still am) but after seeing TDKR, I've learned to appreciate TDK a lot. That script was tight and focused.

 

[Shikamaru]

Sorry. I mistook it for an anger icon.

I don't blame ya. I thought the same thing not too long ago.

Seconded. The Dark Knight Rises made me appreciate BB and TDK even more, because of how flawed it was.

I don't know if I can say TDKR made me like BB and TDK more but they do feel more like Batman movies to me after seeing TDKR. Not that they didn't in the first place (they always did) but I now geek out a lot more over seeing classic and iconic Batman things in those films than I did before. I get really excited seeing things like the bat-signal, Batman fighting the mob, Batman visiting Dent in the hospital, Arkham Asylum, etc. Before, I just kinda took them for granted. "Oh, they're there because this is a Batman movie."

I think this is because all those things weren't present in TDKR and it feels like we saw them so long ago not just due to the 8 year gap in the trilogy's timeline but also due to the 4 year gap in real life. A 4 year gap that felt longer than just 4 years due to the huge amount of big comic book movies that came out in between TDK and TDKR. Going back to BB and TDK feels like somewhat of a breath of fresh air.

 

[JackWhite]

Oh man, that was incredible. The Batman comic fanatic in me spotted several Joker comic panels in his diary:

- Two from the classic 70's Joker story, The Laughing Fish, by Steve Englehart.
- Several from Grant Morrison's Joker story in Batman #663, The Clown at Midnight.

Did you see he also had pics of Alex DeLarge, Joker cards, clown faces, and a photo of a hyena.

I spotted those too. I remember hearing about a part where Heath wrote how the Joker would have found the AIDS virus funny.

Dude really went all out for that role, and it payed off tenfold.

 

[JackWhite]

That's how I am. I'm a BB fangirl through and through (still am) but after seeing TDKR, I've learned to appreciate TDK a lot. That script was tight and focused.

If there was one thing I didn't think Nolan would let us down on in TDKR; it was the pacing/focus of the film. Especially when you look at his two films prior to TDKR - TDK and Inception.

 

[Anno_Domini]

If there was one thing I didn't think Nolan would let us down on in TDKR; it was the pacing/focus of the film. Especially when you look at his two films prior to TDKR - TDK and Inception.

He didn't let me down on the script lol

 

[GremlinZilla89]

I guess I'm crazy because I've always felt TDK had pacing issues after the hospital explosion. The narrative in Rises remains at a constant flow for the whole runtime imo.

 

[The Joker]

That's how I am. I'm a BB fangirl through and through (still am) but after seeing TDKR, I've learned to appreciate TDK a lot. That script was tight and focused.

Exactly. It's funny how a lesser movie can open your eyes a bit more to appreciate something better.

I don't know if I can say TDKR made me like BB and TDK more but they do feel more like Batman movies to me after seeing TDKR. Not that they didn't in the first place (they always did) but I now geek out a lot more over seeing classic and iconic Batman things in those films than I did before. I get really excited seeing things like the bat-signal, Batman fighting the mob, Batman visiting Dent in the hospital, Arkham Asylum, etc. Before, I just kinda took them for granted. "Oh, they're there because this is a Batman movie."

I think this is because all those things weren't present in TDKR and it feels like we saw them so long ago not just due to the 8 year gap in the trilogy's timeline but also due to the 4 year gap in real life. A 4 year gap that felt longer than just 4 years due to the huge amount of big comic book movies that came out in between TDK and TDKR. Going back to BB and TDK feels like somewhat of a breath of fresh air.

That's an excellent way of looking at it. It's little things you miss, like Batman gliding on his cape. I missed those great scenes of Batman soaring through the air on his cape.

I spotted those too. I remember hearing about a part where Heath wrote how the Joker would have found the AIDS virus funny.

That's from Morrison's Batman #663 story. Morrison himself commented on it:

Heath Ledger’s Joker -- no question it was an amazing performance. And if he were still with us, we could ask him about his various inspirations: what did he watch, what did he read, what did he observe, how did he inhabit his character? Well, one of the clues he left us was his Joker diary, which he kept four months before shooting.

In it, there’s a list of what would make the Joker laugh – including AIDS, landmines, geniuses suffering irreversible brain damage, brunch, and sombreros. “It gave me this chill,” Grant Morrison said, because it was word-for-word what Morrison had written in one of his Batman stories.

“There’s a Batman [Batman #663, “The Clown at Midnight”] that I did last year that hardly anyone read,” Morrison said.

As a response to his own "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth,” Morrison had continued his themes of the duality of Joker and the Batman in “The Clown at Midnight.” Having established with “Arkham” that the Joker had a sort of “super-sanity” and that he shifted between personalities,” Morrison explored the idea further in “The Clown at Midnight,” by showing that each time the Joker escaped, one of those new personalities would emerge.

“It’s a really good story,” Morrison said, “but because it was prose, people didn’t want to read it.”

Except, apparently, Heath, who saw Morrison’s list and put it in his Joker diary. “He actually had a whole list -- blind babies, doctors, accidents -- really horrible stuff,” Morrison said. “Heath wrote it all down. So yeah, I can see there’s a lot of [‘Arkham’ and ‘Midnight’] in his Joker.”

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/0...-morrison-opens-up-heath-ledgers-joker-diary/

Dude really went all out for that role, and it payed off tenfold.

Best villain performance of the comic book movie genre, IMO.