The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[Kane52630]

Watch Black Dynamite, BatLobster...that is all.

 

[Ryan]

I guess it comes down to opinion. When I head "the last confirmed sighting" I took it that its the last time he was Batman. Had Blake said "we've rarely seen him" or "we've only seen him a few times since dent's death" then I would have been open to the idea that he was around. I don't like the idea that he retired after Dent's death, but that's the way I interpret it. Someone really needs to do a decent interview with Nolan to answer a lot of the questions we have on this board. However at Batlobsterises suggests, Nolan probably wouldn't give straight answers.

 

[shauner111]

I didn't. That's the thing, this is Batman. If you're going to write "Last confirmed sighting", that's going to get my wheels turning just as much as not saying anything at all. He works in the shadows, he's a ninja, and with cops on his tail, he's not going to be coming out with the batmobile, batpod or the batwing.

 

[Ryan]

I understand the whole ninja thing, but were there any scenes in any of the trilogy when Batman fought crime and wasn't noticed or left evidence behind that he had been there? I guess we can choose to believe whatever we want to believe.

 

[regwec]

Nolan's Batman generally left a swathe of destruction behind him, so he would have had to have made a real effort to keep his head down.

 

[The Joker]

I'd love to see what he was doing with his busted knee, too.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Did he leave his DNA all over town as well?

 

[Ryan]

I guess I'm trying to think of how a director can convey to an audience (through John Blake) that Batman retired the night after Dent died. To me, I would have him say "the last confirmed sighting" was eight years ago. If I wanted the audience to think that Batman was still out there, I probably would have had Blake say there had a few sightings since the night Dent died, or something along those lines. Just my opinion.

 

[Travesty]

The movie clearly set it out that he retired the night of Dent's death. Not only does that small quote make it apparent, but his busted knee should be the nail in the coffin.

 

[regwec]

Yep, and that sucks.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

BLAKE (The Dark Knight Rises)
It's about that night. This night, eight years ago. The night that Dent died. The last confirmed sighting of the Batman. He murders those people, takes down two SWAT teams, breaks Dent's neck, and then just...vanishes.

CHRISTOPHER NOLAN (The Dark Knight Rises Special Features)
He has been damaged by his experiences as Batman. Doesn't know how to move on from them. And so very much The Dark Knight Rises deals with the consequences of character's actions. He's physically damaged, he's walking with a cane, he's hurt his leg in the fall that killed Harvey Dent.

 

[BatLobster]

The thing about the knee is the whole no-cartilage issue that gets brought up. It's not like he destroyed all the cartilage in his knee from that fall in TDK. It's more indicative of the result of arthritis/inactivity. And besides, even having a busted knee didn't stop him from pulling the very Batman-like stunt of repelling down from a hospital window. The fact that his cane had the cable inside it is pretty ironic in and of itself.

Anyway, regardless of whether there were a few quiet post TDK missions or not, I still believe Bruce at least made use of the new Batcave due to Alfred saying, "You haven't been down here in a long time."

Also my feeling on it is kinda like...take Gotham Knight for example. It's not really hard canon, but all that stuff is meant to occur between BB and TDK. Heck, the Scarecrow/Croc story was written by Goyer. There's nothing in TDK to confirm any of it but there's also nothing to completely deny the possibility of it being in continuity. That's sort of how I feel about the timeline of Bruce's retirement. The movie means to convey the general idea that Batman has been gone in the public eye for 8 years, and it's clear that Bruce has been retired for a long time. But we never hear Bruce or Alfred confirm when the last night he put on the cape and cowl was, or the last night he used the Bat-computer to do detective work, etc. There is some vagueness there and I don't mind imagining some stuff in the gap there, similarly to how I like to imagine adventures for Batman between BB or TDK (or think of a few of the GK shorts as in canon).

 

[shauner111]

I understand the whole ninja thing, but were there any scenes in any of the trilogy when Batman fought crime and wasn't noticed or left evidence behind that he had been there? I guess we can choose to believe whatever we want to believe.

Im sure there were a few in Begins. At least of him out there, watching over the city or doing detective work. A confirmed sighting means on record. That kid in Begins who saw Batman wouldn't say anything and even if there were tales on the streets of sightings, that's still unconfirmed unless they're calling it in. Why cant we believe that people either didn't see Batman or they simply didn't report it?

For example, if a criminal gets trapped for Gordon to specifically pick him up, he's not going to rat. Or if Batman handles some nut like the Riddler, it could be a more private game of cat and mouse that stays out of the limelight, and very much out of the public eye for the entire city to see. If the remaining mobsters see the Batman one night, or some kids "think" they see him...they may not tell a soul to the cops, the news, the radio, or the internet.

It goes back to what I said about him being a ninja and being extra careful. A silent guardian. Watchful protector.

The thing about the knee is the whole no-cartilage issue that gets brought up. It's not like he destroyed all the cartilage in his knee from that fall in TDK. It's more indicative of the result of arthritis/inactivity. And besides, even having a busted knee didn't stop him from pulling the very Batman-like stunt of repelling down from a hospital window. The fact that his cane had the cable inside it is pretty ironic in and of itself.

Yes sir. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Travesty]

The thing about the knee is the whole no-cartilage issue that gets brought up. It's not like he destroyed all the cartilage in his knee from that fall in TDK. It's more indicative of the result of arthritis/inactivity. And besides, even having a busted knee didn't stop him from pulling the very Batman-like stunt of repelling down from a hospital window. The fact that his cane had the cable inside it is pretty ironic in and of itself.

But that's just you making those assumptions, especially when that quote from Nolan says otherwise.

CHRISTOPHER NOLAN (The Dark Knight Rises Special Features)
He has been damaged by his experiences as Batman. Doesn't know how to move on from them. And so very much The Dark Knight Rises deals with the consequences of character's actions. He's physically damaged, he's walking with a cane, he's hurt his leg in the fall that killed Harvey Dent.

 

[The Joker]

The movie clearly set it out that he retired the night of Dent's death. Not only does that small quote make it apparent, but his busted knee should be the nail in the coffin.

Exactly. You saw him stumbling on it when he was running away at the end of TDK.

 

[regwec]

He may have just been swimming in that heavy rubber wetsuit, to be fair.

 

[JackWhite]

What makes the 8 year gap a touchy situation is the fact that Nolan had a lot of time to play with it, and he could have easily made mention of Bruce actively being out there as Batman until the Dent Act came into full effect; which is the logical explanation as to how that situation would have played out. But instead he chose to pretty much close the door on that with the "last confirmed sighting" line from Blake.

We didn't need to see Batman being actively hunted and evading the police, but to hear that something happened during this big time gap would have appeased most fans I think, including myself.

 

[BatLobster]

But that's just you making those assumptions, especially when that quote from Nolan says otherwise.

Oh I'm fully aware I'm making assumptions, I'm just putting this all out there as a fun thought experiment.

I guess my point is it doesn't really matter exactly how long Bruce was retired, as long as it was most of those 8 years. I think they left themselves some wiggle room there but just chose not to wiggle out of it. Whether or not it was an immediate retirement (as alluded to) or not, it doesn't really effect the events of TDKR.

Nolan may not believe that his Batman fought Croc and Deadshot in the interim between BB and TDK, but that still might make up the canon some fans have going in their heads. Same goes for the TDK viral marketing.

I'm arguing for the case that there's still room for him to have continued being Batman in some sort of sub-canon way, not necessarily movie absolute canon. That's to say I wouldn't object at all if a comic or cartoon ever told a story taking place in the months after TDK, I'd welcome it.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

INT. BURNT WAREHOUSE, 52ND STREET -- CONTINUOUS
Gordon races down the stairs. Rushes over to Batman.
JAMES
Dad, is he okay?
Gordon crouches at Batman's side. The Batman GRASPS Gordon's
arm. STAGGERS to his feet.

Batman hurries off. LIMPING into the shadows.

EXT. DOCKSIDE ROOFTOPS -- CONTINUOUS
The Batman LURCHES between shipping containers. STUMBLING.
BLEEDING. He makes it to the bat-pod...

The old TDK screenplay puts into words what some people visually miss at the end of TDK.

 

[georgec]

The old TDK screenplay puts into words what some people visually miss at the end of TDK.

True. And even so you can clearly see Batman limping and struggling to make it to the Batpod.

 

[BatLobster]

True. And even so you can clearly see Batman limping and struggling to make it to the Batpod.

But he does make it and still manages to evade the GCPD. Like a boss.

 

[georgec]

I'm arguing for the case that there's still room for him to have continued being Batman in some sort of sub-canon way, not necessarily movie absolute canon. That's to say I wouldn't object at all if a comic or cartoon ever told a story taking place in the months after TDK, I'd welcome it.

And so the Expanded Nolanverse was born...

 

[Ryan]

I mean I suppose with that line of thinking we could say Batman also fought Darkseid between films. But is that what Nolan wanted us to think happened in the 8 year gap when he had Blake say that there were no confirmed sightings. Again, what would satisfy the audience that nothing happened after the night Dent died? You're the director/writer...what would have had Blake say other then "no confirmed sightings".

 

[Snow Queen]

And so the Expanded Nolanverse was born...

It's loads of fun if you connect it to actor's other roles (and ignore their names there). For example, John Blake's origin is in Brick and (500) Days of Summer and Bruce Wayne was actually a serial killer during the first years he was away as documented in American Psycho.

 

[Anno_Domini]

"Last confirmed sighting" leaves open UNCONFIRMED SIGHTINGS.

Agreed with the following posters that continues to believe Batman didn't retire that very night and continued to overlook Gotham. We have a Batman that continues on when he's stabbed...a busted knee won't keep Bats down unless he just keeps himself down and that leg injury is as bad is it is when he decided to do literally nothing for three years.