The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[BlueLightning]

A friend gave me that cup as a gift... he is a good man.

 

[Reek]

I have that cup!

I have never used it

 

[Brother Jack]

I have that cup!

So do I. I also have one with Kilmer's Batman on it. Those cups are durable, man.

 

[Anita18]

I had a moment Monday night where I was 20 minutes early, so I snuck into Man of Steel which had just started to watch for a few minutes. Even though I've only seen MoS once and Rises like 20 times, I realized I truly would rather watch Rises.

Same thing happened to me. The MOS screening that was playing was at the beginning of the Metropolis destruction, and I figured I preferred story with my action. (And even then, there's a very good reason why the Bane/Batman fights were both less than 5 minutes long...) Plus, I'd missed all the Henry Cavill shirtless scenes so what was the point?!

People still clapped at the end of my AMC screening. I totally shook and cried and got a bit miffed when they put the lights up immediately as the credits started. JUST LEAVE ME ALONE WITH MY FEELINGS FOR A MINUTE WILL YOU?!

I truly appreciate how all the Nolan Batfilms were actually ABOUT something other than defeating the bad guy and saving the day. To have Bruce learn that living through pain isn't a real way to live...that's just beautiful, man.

 

[regwec]

MOS is no less 'about' something than BB, and in fact both stories run along the same structure.

It shouldn't be necessary to be derogatory about other films in order to defend the previous Bat-trilogy.

 

[Anita18]

Well I can readily admit that BB is the most comic-book-movie formulaic and least Nolan-y of all the Batfilms. And also admittedly, BB did that structure better than MOS. MOS at least has a less repetitive script. If I heard "fear" one more time...

And I'm referring to all the Marvel movies too. There's room for both serious and fun comic book movies, but there's so many non-serious and fun ones (ie, everything else), that I'm glad we have a serious and really really good trilogy to call our own.

 

[regwec]

Actually, I don't find much of Marvel's output to be 'fun'. 'Dumb' often seems to be mistaken for 'fun'.

 

[redfirebird2008]

MOS is no less 'about' something than BB, and in fact both stories run along the same structure.

It shouldn't be necessary to be derogatory about other films in order to defend the previous Bat-trilogy.

Other people take potshots at the Nolan trilogy all the time in order to lift up other movies. If that's how she feels about it, I see no problem with it. Man of Steel's origin story was a bit on the shaky side of things, while the first hour of BB is still the best of the genre.

 

[Anita18]

Actually, I don't find much of Marvel's output to be 'fun'. 'Dumb' often seems to be mistaken for 'fun'.

Hey, at least I was trying to let them down nicely by calling them "non-serious."

But yeah, I don't really expect the Nolan Batfilms to start a trend except in a very superficial "we're gonna shoot this serious-like!" veneer. If even that. I don't think there will be anything like this trilogy again in a long, LONG time, if ever. But we'll always have this one.

 

[regwec]

Other people take potshots at the Nolan trilogy all the time in order to lift up other movies.

I don't excuse that, either, but the Batman trilogy has plenty of virtues, making the criticism of other films by comparison to be unnecessary.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I don't excuse that, either, but the Batman trilogy has plenty of virtues, making the criticism of other films by comparison to be unnecessary.

Comparison between movies in the same genre is only natural, especially movies that are made by the same people. If anything, the release of MOS should help people appreciate BB a little more.

 

[regwec]

Or they might decide they prefer MOS.

My point is that denigrating one film doesn't make another better.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Or they might decide they prefer MOS.

My point is that denigrating one film doesn't make another better.

It's completely subjective regardless.

 

[Anita18]

Or they might decide they prefer MOS.

My point is that denigrating one film doesn't make another better.

I didn't mean to piss all over MOS in particular. Just appreciating the Nolan Batfilms for what they are now that all these other comic book films have come out too. The difference is just especially striking since I hadn't seen TDKR in a while.

 

[regwec]

I actually agree with you to an extent. It comes as a slighty disappointment to me that the likes of "Avengers" are used as the example of the other way of approaching a comicbook property. The argument is that they revel in the sound, colour and 'fun' of comics.

I find them to be insipid, patronizing and dull. I would hate to see a Batman film that was levelled squarely at the lowest common denominator. All the same, I hope to oneday see an approach that is different to Nolan's and different to the Marvel Film & Toy factory. Finding 'Iron Man 2' deeply depressing doesn't iron out TDKR's flaws, for me.

 

[BatLobster]

I didn't mean to piss all over MOS in particular. Just appreciating the Nolan Batfilms for what they are now that all these other comic book films have come out too. The difference is just especially striking since I hadn't seen TDKR in a while.

I totally feel you there. The refreshing sparsity of CGI alone in the Nolan movies makes them feel like an old friend, like something from an earlier era. The contrast between the trilogy and pretty much all other modern superhero films is stark, to say the least. Even some of the rough fight choreography gives them a bit of a homemade charm to me.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I totally feel you there. The refreshing sparsity of CGI alone in the Nolan movies makes them feel like an old friend, like something from an earlier era. The contrast between the trilogy and pretty much all other modern superhero films is stark, to say the least. Even some of the rough fight choreography gives them a bit of a homemade charm to me.

Yeah, the TDK Trilogy definitely put story and character development above action (at least the fight scenes). Having said that, I must say that I really did enjoy MoS. The story definitely had that 'inspiring' element to it (IMHO), which was prevalent in the Nolan batfilms too and which I really appreciated.

I do enjoy the Marvel films and the universe as a whole, but none of them really have that element. Again, IMHO. The only ones I can think of in this sense are the first Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. Of course, this is all subjective and these are just my 2 cents.

I'm really looking forward to seeing where they take MoS next though.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I actually agree with you to an extent. It comes as a slighty disappointment to me that the likes of "Avengers" are used as the example of the other way of approaching a comicbook property. The argument is that they revel in the sound, colour and 'fun' of comics.

I find them to be insipid, patronizing and dull. I would hate to see a Batman film that was levelled squarely at the lowest common denominator. All the same, I hope to oneday see an approach that is different to Nolan's and different to the Marvel Film & Toy factory. Finding 'Iron Man 2' deeply depressing doesn't iron out TDKR's flaws, for me.

Personally, I find The Avengers and The Dark Knight to be the two examples of great comic films.

I don't think the Avengers is dumb by any means. But it is certainly simpler. It's an action blockbuster with some great humor and great action, and an engaging story.

The Dark Knight was extremely serious, dark, and had a complex story and complex characters. And it was just as great to watch in theaters for me.

I really don't get why people feel the need to rip on TA because I've never seen the film claim to be anything other than what it was: a fun blockbuster with great action. If it were trying to bill itself as another Dark Knight, then I would understand, but it didn't.

To me, comparing the two films is like comparing Saving Private Ryan and Raiders of the Lost Arc. Yes, they both are set in WWII, they both involve heroes fighting Nazi's, and they both have action. But they're completely different films. Yes, SPR has a much more complex storyline and complex characters that ROTA, but that doesn't make Raiders any less enjoyable. We don't rip on Raiders for not being a super serious action flick with an in-depth plot and complex characters, so why are people ripping on The Avengers for the same thing when it was never trying to be that kind of film?

 

[kvz5]

EW's Top 100 Movies of All Time

1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Bonnie and Clyde
5. Psycho
6. It's a Wonderful Life
7. Mean Streets
8. The Gold Rush
9. Nashville
10. Gone With the Wind
11. King Kong
12. The Searchers
13. Annie Hall
14. Bambi
15. Blue Velvet
16. Singin' in the Rain
17. Seven Samurai
18. Jaws
19. Pulp Fiction
20. The Sorrow and the Pity
21. Some Like It Hot
22. Toy Story
23. Notorious
24. The Sound of Music
25. 2001: A Space Odyssey
26. Bicycle Thieves
27. The Maltese Falcon
28. The Wizard of Oz
29. North by Northwest
30. Sunrise
31. Chinatown
32. Duck Soup
33. The Graduate
34. Adam's Rib
35. Apocalypse Now
36. Rosemary's Baby
37. Manhattan
38. Vertigo
39. The Rules of the Game
40. Double Indemnity
41. The Road Warrior
42. Taxi Driver
43. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
44. On the Waterfront
45. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
46. The Adventures of Robin Hood
47. A Clockwork Orange
48. It Happened One Night
49. Goldfinger
50. Intolerance
51. A Hard Day's Night
52. Titanic
53. Star Wars--Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
54. Breathless
55. Frankenstein
56. Schindler's List
57. Midnight Cowboy
58. The Seventh Seal
59. All the President's Men
60. Top Hat
61. The Silence of the Lambs
62. E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
63. Network
64. The Best Years of Our Lives
65. Last Tango in Paris
66. The Shining
67. Rebel Without A Cause
68. GoodFellas
69. Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
70. L'Avventura
71. American Graffiti
72. The 400 Blows
73. Cabaret
74. The Hurt Locker
75. Touch of Evil
76. Lawrence of Arabia
77. Dog Day Afternoon
78. Raiders of the Lost Ark
79. Night of the Living Dead
80. Dazed and Confused
81. Blade Runner
82. Scenes From a Marriage
83. The Wild Bunch
84. Olympia
85. Dirty Harry
86. All About Eve
87. La Dolce Vita
88. The Dark Knight
89. Woodstock
90. The French Connection
91. Do the Right Thing
92. The Piano
93. A Face in the Crowd
94. Brokeback Mountain
95. Rushmore
96. Sullivan's Travels
97. Diner
98. All About My Mother
99. There Will Be Blood
100. Sweet Smell of Success

 

[BatLobster]

TDK below Titanic?

All kidding aside though, it's always cool to see a Batman film in such good company. Makes me feel very proud as a fan.

 

[Anno_Domini]

The Hurt Locker is a great film, but that's even above TDK?

 

[BatLobster]

I liked Zero Dark Thirty so much more than The Hurt Locker personally.

 

[Kane52630]

It's flawed because B&R is nowhere to be found on the list.

 

[milost]

Personally, I find The Avengers and The Dark Knight to be the two examples of great comic films.

I don't think the Avengers is dumb by any means. But it is certainly simpler. It's an action blockbuster with some great humor and great action, and an engaging story.

The Dark Knight was extremely serious, dark, and had a complex story and complex characters. And it was just as great to watch in theaters for me.

I really don't get why people feel the need to rip on TA because I've never seen the film claim to be anything other than what it was: a fun blockbuster with great action. If it were trying to bill itself as another Dark Knight, then I would understand, but it didn't.

To me, comparing the two films is like comparing Saving Private Ryan and Raiders of the Lost Arc. Yes, they both are set in WWII, they both involve heroes fighting Nazi's, and they both have action. But they're completely different films. Yes, SPR has a much more complex storyline and complex characters that ROTA, but that doesn't make Raiders any less enjoyable. We don't rip on Raiders for not being a super serious action flick with an in-depth plot and complex characters, so why are people ripping on The Avengers for the same thing when it was never trying to be that kind of film?

Yup, all this. Agreed.


I think that The Dark Knight and The Avengers are the best modern comic book films thus far. They both have very different merits, feelings and intentions but they're the two that stand out in my opinion.

If we expanded the time frame a bit, I'd include Spider-Man 2 in there as well which is also very unlike the other two but still great.

 

[milost]

It's flawed because B&R is nowhere to be found on the list.

It should have been at the very top, as number 0.