The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 148

[Victarion]

That would be tricky. I could see critiques of "hur dur so edgy."

 

[the last son]

Think of the guilt cat woman would have had

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I live in VA, and the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts is holding a costume expo. Look who made an appearance!

 

[georgec]

Spidey!!!

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Both Spidey & Batman's costume were gorgeous. I can't tell you how hard it was to not only touch them, but not take them.

 

[wayneson]

Sure.






I enjoyed the films too. The lot of you think there are personal feelings tied up in this. That I'm saying something negative about this series and thus have a grudge against it. That's false.

I'm not saying people who loved the film will not view it like Jurassic Park or Indiana Jones because I look at TDK the same way I look at The Empire Strikes Back, it's one of my favorites.

I said the General Populace isn't going to view the TDK trilogy that way because it did not take in any of those movies the way ANY of the original Star Wars or Indiana Jones or Jurassic Park was taken in.

Go look back at those years. Go to 1977 and see what Star Wars did to the world or 1993 and What Jurassic Park did to the world. They were MASSIVE. the TDK trilogy was huge but it wasn't that.

I was 20 years old in 1977, and I can say that the hype surrounding TDK before it came out was just as big as Star Wars; most people didn't know much about it before it hit.

Of course both came out before TDK which really caterpaulted Nolan's career, fame and favorability but...

Gosh, you guys are so odd on this site. Where did I say they would be forgotten like duds. I said in 10-20 years people aren't going to be looking back and saying that these were the creme de la creme of films. TDK MAYBE but the other two don't have the popularity or favorable ratings. People will still like them but it'll be how some of us look at most films from 20 years ago now. "Oh I liked that movie it was good" an average intake.



I'm actually an Aquarius.

Yeah, me too. 2/5/57. You need some perspective, that only comes with age. That's the problem with most of you guys...you just haven't seen enough movies. In a discussion of film, making a statement such as yours, that a particular film or films "don't have the popularity or favorable ratings" indicates that you need more experience discussing films, because those criteria aren't relevant. 10-20 years is nothing. If you don't think people are talking about films from the 40s, 50s and 60s...never mind 10-20 years ago, you're talking about regular people, not film buffs. Regular people don't talk about anything of much importance...you'll figure that out when you get a little older.

 

[milost]

Let them find out for themselves. They'll see. With age comes experience.

 

[BatLobster]

If you read wayneson's post closely, I'm pretty sure he's arguing against your and Rag's assessments milost.

But yes, I think it's implied that when someone says the trilogy will still be talked about in the future, they mean amongst film buffs or people who care about movies. I'm old enough to know that as life goes on, people talk about other things and less about fanboyish things. But the trilogy is already highly regarded amongst a plethora of critics in the 40s and 50s. Roeper rated it the second greatest trilogy of all time, ahead of Star Wars. So go figure.

It has left some sort of impact. Nobody in this thread knows exactly what that impact will be or mean in the future, or how long that impact will last. But I think that as long as the character of Batman remains a global icon, it's highly likely that these movies will have some sort of place in the pop culture lexicon, at the very least on the level of Batman 89. Especially with how starkly it stands apart from all its superhero film brethren of the 00s. When people look back on the "superhero era", it's going to be impossible to not discuss the trilogy. I mean, the foundation that the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe rests upon is the original Iron Man, which the Favreau openly admits was heavily influenced by Batman Begins.

 

[shauner111]

People still talk about movies from the 60s or 70s. Clockwork Orange, 2001, Godfather, Rocky, Taxi Driver, Star Wars, The Good The Bad & The Ugly, Exorcist. Those movies are close to 40-50 years old.

In 40-50 years, i can make a list of movies that i think people will still be talking about which came out in the last decade. But ill just say that TDK trilogy will be discussed just like the Lord Of The Rings trilogy.

 

[wayneson]

People still talk about movies from the 60s or 70s. Clockwork Orange, 2001, Godfather, Rocky, Taxi Driver, Star Wars, The Good The Bad & The Ugly, Exorcist. Those movies are close to 40-50 years old.

In 40-50 years, i can make a list of movies that i think people will still be talking about which came out in the last decade. But ill just say that TDK trilogy will be discussed just like the Lord Of The Rings trilogy.

I agree. There is a difference, in the fact that it is doubtful (though not impossible) that any director will reboot the LOTR trilogy and do their own version, but there will be other Batman trilogies to compare TDKT to. I think it will compare very favorably, mainly because I agree with Denny O'Neil (for my money, the most astute observer of / participant in the Batman mythos) who pointed out that Nolan's DKT tells a much larger and satisfying story than any of its' individual films - eventually, TDKT will be more esteemed, at least by film buffs (and Batman fans who have the long view) than TDK.

 

[BatLobster]

Agreed. Denny O'Neil was spot on. I mean, I felt the same before I heard him say that but it was nice to see one of my favorite Batman writers (and all around smart cat) echoing my own feelings about the trilogy as a whole.

Though it's not entirely a surprise either, seeing as the trilogy is very much influenced by 70s Batman.

 

[DACrowe]

If you read wayneson's post closely, I'm pretty sure he's arguing against your and Rag's assessments milost.

But yes, I think it's implied that when someone says the trilogy will still be talked about in the future, they mean amongst film buffs or people who care about movies. I'm old enough to know that as life goes on, people talk about other things and less about fanboyish things. But the trilogy is already highly regarded amongst a plethora of critics in the 40s and 50s. Roeper rated it the second greatest trilogy of all time, ahead of Star Wars. So go figure.

It has left some sort of impact. Nobody in this thread knows exactly what that impact will be or mean in the future, or how long that impact will last. But I think that as long as the character of Batman remains a global icon, it's highly likely that these movies will have some sort of place in the pop culture lexicon, at the very least on the level of Batman 89. Especially with how starkly it stands apart from all its superhero film brethren of the 00s. When people look back on the "superhero era", it's going to be impossible to not discuss the trilogy. I mean, the foundation that the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe rests upon is the original Iron Man, which the Favreau openly admits was heavily influenced by Batman Begins.

Here is a simple way to consider it.

The defining genre of at least the first two decades of the early 21st century appears to be superheroes. It is what most appeals to American audiences and even more surprisingly to global audiences. For that reason, much like westerns from about Stagecoach to somewhere around Little Big Man, it is going to be a staple of American culture even for those who hate it.

As such, people will look back and certain ones will stand taller than others. For the same reason John Ford's films like The Searchers and She Wore a Yellow Ribbon stand out more than the dime-a-dozen white hats and black hats, Nolan's I think will have a staying power. Beyond artistic value (which is why I mentioned Ford) there is this:

An undeniable link appears to exist in the zeitgeist with American anxieties of the last 10+ years following 9/11 and leading into wiretapping, a surveillance state, economic collapse, etc. and our number 1 form of escapism. Just as westerns and musicals are attributed as reactions to the Depression, and noir to post-WWII cynicism, superhero movies will likely be viewed at least partially as a reaction to these times.

Every single one of the Nolan films deal directly, and frankly, with those issues of the Bush years and even some of the Obama era. A city (or parable for America) "tearing itself apart through fear" instigated by a foreigner who lives in the mountains and has a beard; a society forced to confront whether its principles and values are worth cherishing if it means a madman can continue killing innocents without concern; a populist and anti-government zealot using economic inequality to rally social instability.

All three films deal directly with fears and terrors of 2005-2012. And as this will at least be viewed as the genesis of the superhero genre's emerging dominance, this will make the films' cultural history more worthwhile.

And to those who say why would Joe Schmoe care about any of this? He wouldn't! Only cinephiles, film historians and some parents passing it down to the next generation go back and revisit the "classics" or essentials. And yes, this is why E! Network has more viewers than Turner Classic Movies.

However for those who care, these movies are almost to endure. They have too great a value to not continue to do so.

 

[shauner111]

Agreed. Denny O'Neil was spot on. I mean, I felt the same before I heard him say that but it was nice to see one of my favorite Batman writers (and all around smart cat) echoing my own feelings about the trilogy as a whole.

Though it's not entirely a surprise either, seeing as the trilogy is very much influenced by 70s Batman.

When Denny speaks, i listen! I probably trust his opinion more than any batman writer that's ever been. Nolan's films drew a lot from 70s, 80s and 90s. Which were very good times to be a Batman fan when you look at O'Neil, Adams, Englehart, Miller, Loeb, Dini, Burton, etc. It's in many ways the favorite era amongst fans. And even non-fans, whether they know it or not, see Batman in the way that it was mostly depicted during those decades. The dark, serious Batman surrounded by gritty & flashy criminals. Before there was more & more of the crossover stuff with Justice League/Superman in the mainstream. Before the crazy futuristic Beyond or Kingdom Come. And after the lighter side to the character that was shown in the comics and TV. I mean even if you asked people to describe Bruce Wayne/Batman the majority wouldn't tell you he's a smaller awkward guy who kills people when he goes out on the town (Kane/Keaton)..they'll tell you he's a big dude who stalks criminals at night but has a code.

I think the trilogy resonates with more people than we think. Even if it doesn't to some, it still represents most of our favorite Batman eras. Even if fans don't like certain details (Detective this, longevity that)...the general concept of Nolan's Batman gets the job done for a pretty wide audience.

Affleck's may turn out to be the definitive Batman, im almost banking on it. But will the movies? At least most of the films Affleck will be a part of will be team-up movies. In the hands of Snyder, in other words: Popcorn movies. The solo movies could be a whole different story depending on who's behind the camera and whom inks their pen. They may be remembered much like Batman 89' yet even more accurate to the source material. Or it could top it all. But it's not a trilogy. It's still tied to other heroes & each of their movies. Whether those succeed or fail. We may get 1 or 2 individual Bat films but will that have as much of an impact as an entire trilogy that was done by the likes of Christopher Nolan?

That may be the difference.

The trilogy will be remembered like the Godfather trilogy, Star Wars trilogy and the LOTR trilogy. Especially the latter two.

When people think of Batman they think of him alone in his world, they dont immediately think of him fighting aliens with Superman in his corner. Which most of these future films will show us.

The only CBM's outside of the trilogy that will be remembered in 50 years are the very first films we saw from Superman (1978) as it was the first ever. Batman (1989) as it was the first dark one of its kind, making a dramatic entrance in dollars. And Avengers (2012) as it was the first team-up movie of all time. The sequels will make it feel like one big franchise and as a whole it'll be remembered as long as it keeps selling the way it does. All of those were first-timers for the genre but TDK Trilogy (2005-2012) will be remembered because of A) who directed B) its arc within a trilogy which won't happen for quite some time C) how it pushed the medium with Imax.

Ill end it with this. Which ill re-iterate. Affleck might become the greatest Batman to ever lace his boots on the big screen. But will the movies be remembered as much as the trilogy when the dust settles....

 

[milost]

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope you all have a good one and a happy new year!

 

[Shikamaru]

Merry Christmas, everyone! And try to rejoice the spirit of the holidays more than our dear dark knight.

 

[The Joker]

Merry Christmas, everyone.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

"I come to youuuuuuuu, the peeeepul..bearing gifts for GOTHAAMMM!"

 

[James.B]

"I come to youuuuuuuu, the peeeepul..bearing gifts for GOTHAAMMM!"

Merry Christmas

 

[Kane52630]

I wonder if Alfred Claus will give us tangerines for Christmas.

 

[James H]

Bane in "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town!" "Dark Knight Rises" Parody:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WnbilrEbXw

Lol...amazing editing

 

[Kane52630]

I see your Santa TDKR parody and raise you this...

 

[georgec]

Spoiler

When Denny speaks, i listen! I probably trust his opinion more than any batman writer that's ever been. Nolan's films drew a lot from 70s, 80s and 90s. Which were very good times to be a Batman fan when you look at O'Neil, Adams, Englehart, Miller, Loeb, Dini, Burton, etc. It's in many ways the favorite era amongst fans. And even non-fans, whether they know it or not, see Batman in the way that it was mostly depicted during those decades. The dark, serious Batman surrounded by gritty & flashy criminals. Before there was more & more of the crossover stuff with Justice League/Superman in the mainstream. Before the crazy futuristic Beyond or Kingdom Come. And after the lighter side to the character that was shown in the comics and TV. I mean even if you asked people to describe Bruce Wayne/Batman the majority wouldn't tell you he's a smaller awkward guy who kills people when he goes out on the town (Kane/Keaton)..they'll tell you he's a big dude who stalks criminals at night but has a code.

I think the trilogy resonates with more people than we think. Even if it doesn't to some, it still represents most of our favorite Batman eras. Even if fans don't like certain details (Detective this, longevity that)...the general concept of Nolan's Batman gets the job done for a pretty wide audience.

Affleck's may turn out to be the definitive Batman, im almost banking on it. But will the movies? At least most of the films Affleck will be a part of will be team-up movies. In the hands of Snyder, in other words: Popcorn movies. The solo movies could be a whole different story depending on who's behind the camera and whom inks their pen. They may be remembered much like Batman 89' yet even more accurate to the source material. Or it could top it all. But it's not a trilogy. It's still tied to other heroes & each of their movies. Whether those succeed or fail. We may get 1 or 2 individual Bat films but will that have as much of an impact as an entire trilogy that was done by the likes of Christopher Nolan?

That may be the difference.

The trilogy will be remembered like the Godfather trilogy, Star Wars trilogy and the LOTR trilogy. Especially the latter two.

When people think of Batman they think of him alone in his world, they dont immediately think of him fighting aliens with Superman in his corner. Which most of these future films will show us.

The only CBM's outside of the trilogy that will be remembered in 50 years are the very first films we saw from Superman (1978) as it was the first ever. Batman (1989) as it was the first dark one of its kind, making a dramatic entrance in dollars. And Avengers (2012) as it was the first team-up movie of all time. The sequels will make it feel like one big franchise and as a whole it'll be remembered as long as it keeps selling the way it does. All of those were first-timers for the genre but TDK Trilogy (2005-2012) will be remembered because of A) who directed B) its arc within a trilogy which won't happen for quite some time C) how it pushed the medium with Imax.

Ill end it with this. Which ill re-iterate. Affleck might become the greatest Batman to ever lace his boots on the big screen. But will the movies be remembered as much as the trilogy when the dust settles....

And a brofist to you.

BTW, where are Denny's comments on TDKT? Are they on the box set that came out a couple months ago, or is it a written interview? I don't think I've seen them, so I'd love to indulge.

 

[shauner111]

And a brofist to you.

BTW, where are Denny's comments on TDKT? Are they on the box set that came out a couple months ago, or is it a written interview? I don't think I've seen them, so I'd love to indulge.

Have you seen the big documentary from the trilogy set??

 

[scatterax]

Just finished watching the video in the link. I would say his views on Harvey are completely wrong, as once he abandons his reliance on the legal system and starts to take things in his own hands he is viewed as a villains.

And of course the people who stand up for their ideals will be targeted by those who appose those ideals. That's not a message against Harvey standing by the law, it's showing the audience that sometimes doing the right thing has great cost. A very mature notion. Especially next to other superhero films.

 

[georgec]

Have you seen the big documentary from the trilogy set??

I haven't, as I don't own the set. :/

I figured that's where it's from. Hmm, maybe I'll check youtube...just reading your comments on what he thinks of the trilogy has me very eager to watch that documentary.