The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 148

[BatLobster]

DACrowe gets it.

It's all about the warmth of nostalgia. It's a very powerful thing once it kicks in.

 

[Travesty]

I don't think anybody gets it. Crusade is the best!!!

 

[BatLobster]

Hahahahaha t:

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't think anybody gets it. Crusade is the best!!!

Yes it is. t:

 

[Victarion]

Popping in to say I'm surprised that Bruce retiring the Batman for 8 years-ish (again, Blake's specific use of "last confirmed sighting") has come up so frequently in critiques of TDKR. Mine are wanting to see more of Bane's revolution and origin.

 

[milost]

Where are large groups of people ranting and raving about how great Temple of Doom, Return of the Jedi, the Last Crusade and the Dark Knight Rises are? Or how revered their sequels' trilogies are (other than Lucasfilm or Warner Bro. selling boxed movie sets)? I'm talking RIGHT now as we speak. Who is deciding these things? Is there a pop culture committee that I'm not aware of that have put in a vote or tally? Can I walk into my local Best Buy or theater and see this information?

I see folks ripping on these movies all the time, all over the web. "Always find one odd person on the internet *****ing about the Ewoks"? That crap is always coming up, as is the same argument of Leia being Luke's sister being a cop out, or the movie falling apart once they're at Endor. It isn't the same people either, unless I'm supposed to believe this is all a conspiracy of one individual trying to sound like the voices of many.

Temple of Doom? I've seen Raiders purists to casual fans go ape **** over the drastic shift of tone from Raiders to Doom that's enough to make me laugh. Willie, Shortround? Really? Hahahahhahaha (just to be clear, I love both). Or are "they a minority" like good old Anno would always claim? If that's the case, and the internet is just a vocal minority, than where do we get these preconceptions from? How can I see what the rest of the world thinks? No, that's BS. We're talking about it HERE and NOW on this message board and the other similar places we visit. There's just an individual and their thoughts. Every franchise that has sequels (and trilogies) is proclaimed to be greater than it is. If it isn't the fan base making those claims, you can be damn sure that it's for marketing purposes. This goes all the way back to George Lucas and his crazy idea of a "12 episode saga of 4 trilogies" once he saw what a huge success the original Star Wars was. Or is it the box office and $$$? There's been plenty of flicks that have made a crap ton of dough that are still criticized and ripped apart by us story and movie lovin' folks. Phantom Menace, Prometheus, Avatar. So what's the point other than everyone perceives things differently?


The real reality is most people probably don't care as much as they did, or we think they do. They're not too cynical, nor are they idealistic, they simply moved on (especially with attention spans in younger people dwindling). They ain't Batman fanatics like us. They saw the movie and either enjoyed it, hated it or forgot about it and moved on. This idea that these films are just sooooooo revolutionary and life, no, world changing is such a fanboy mentality. Especially when it pops up every so often when a group of fans don't like seeing the criticisms against (or worse, are afraid it will fade into obscurity) their favorite movies and wait for that day where everyone likes what they like while singing kumbaya. That ain't ever going to happen.

We all like what we like and it pretty much ends there. There's plenty of things I love that get ripped on over and over again but I never try to inflate it's merits or claim it's the equivalence of entertainment from over 30 years ago. Everything is it's own thing, from it's own time. Everything is different, everyone is different. Just sit down and enjoy in bliss, or rant your criticisms away!

 

[BatLobster]

Here's how I see it...

Imagine if say, in 20 years, a sequel to TDKR with Nolan and Bale attached was announced. I think people would go ape. Unless Nolan somehow manages to drive his career off a cliff between now and then, I really think that there would be massive, through the roof hype. People would be hyped, intrigued, interested...just like they are right now for Star Wars Episode VII. It would be a big deal.

Just like, if in 2003, if instead of a reboot, a sequel to Batman Returns with Burton and Keaton returning was announced, I feel confident that it would've made huge waves too.

My point is, I don't really care what people say. Movies this big, about these characters that mean so much to so many people have a massive impact on us all. Even if more and more people are "over it" in the coming years, I still think those same people would be the ones lining up for midnight showings of alternate universe "The Dark Knight Rises Again".

Now to be clear, I'm just using a hypothetical. I think there's a better chance of a Justice League and Avengers crossover film (it'll be the only thing left to crossover at this rate) than that ever happening. But tell me I'm wrong. Tell me the words "Nolan" and "Batman" together won't mean something to a lot of movie fans in 20 years.

At this point, I'm not even trying to argue for the trilogy's quality, just its overall relevance. I'm sorry, but if these movies end up becoming irrelevant than I feel like nothing from this generation at all will be relevant in 20 years.

We all like what we like and it pretty much ends there. There's plenty of things I love that get ripped on over and over again but I never try to inflate it's merits or claim it's the equivalence of entertainment from over 30 years ago.

I like a bunch of things that get ripped apart too. I love The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions. I even am pretty tolerant of the Star Wars prequels despite their obvious flaws. It's not like I make claims or comparisons about everything I like that gets criticized. It's not a defensive mechanism. In the case of TDKT, it's just something I genuinely believe.

 

[milost]

What I don't seem to grasp is why you're so concerned about tomorrow, and about a series of movies no less.

We're all fans here, but what does it matter how they're viewed 20 years from now? It's only been a little over a YEAR for crying out loud.

Y'all seem to like to speak hypothetically and make these crazy comparisons to fit some "relevance agenda", so let me ask this. 20 years from now, what if "nobody" cares about TDKR (or, sure, the entire Trilogy) except the 4 or 5 people in this very thread? How would that even be measurable? Better yet, why would that be important? They resonate with the folks that like them, correct? So why the hell does it matter if others don't? I don't think anyone on Superherohype/Batman/Batman movies section let's anyone's opinions dictate their own (I certainly try not to). Not supporters, not detractors. Why then, are we concerned about the thoughts of a nameless and faceless populace two decades from now? It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when some of us might not be around.

As you get older, you'll find that time gets faster and faster and things rapidly change. With attention spans getting shorter (studies have SHOWN this) and entertainment being reflected in the technologies of the time, why would anyone in their right mind want to think 20 years forward where it'll be even worse? Enjoy the here and now, not how well or poorly a movie series (that you may love or hate) will be received decades from now. It seems a little neurotic to me, but then again, it's always been this odd pissing contest where fans of something obsess over little things like trailer watch count, box office numbers, awards i.e. things they have absolutely no stake or money in. It's just emotional attachment. I mean, it's normal to want others to love what you love, but only to a point. No matter what happens, I promise everyone that you'll find atleast one like minded individual that shares your stance and opinion in SOMETHING and you'll be able to discuss all of it's greatness to your hearts content. That's the nature of the internet and these message boards. For now? It's over. There are no more trailers, no more virals, no more speculation, only reflection. All there will ever be is "I like" and "I don't like" (and the occasional pic of behind the scenes info that makes us drool, "I've never seen/heard about that before!").

 

[BatLobster]

It's pretty simple...as a human being, not a Batman fan, not a Hype user, not even as a movie fan...I like to think that quality work will leave its mark and be experienced by future generations. Whatever that work may be. And I think that's kind of how things tend to go.

I mean, that's kind of the point of art in a way. Any artist is going to hope that his or her work will outlive them. So while I had nothing to do with the creation of this trilogy, it meant a lot to me personally and I'd like to think that it's something my kids will be well acquainted with some day. And if pop culture doesn't do that for them, I certainly will and I'll enjoy sharing that with them. So you're right, if nobody but me, shauner, Gotham's Knight, Anita, theShape, DACrowe and good ol' Anno are the only TDKR fans left in 20 years...so be it. It wouldn't really matter to me at all, though I'd probably become a grumpy old fan, constantly ranting about how underrated it is...and I don't want to be that.

Don't get me wrong though, it's not like I'm walking around all day with this concern of whether of not my beloved trilogy will still mean something in 20 years. It's just a message board topic. By and large, I am here to enjoy the here and now and discuss the movies. But the constant back and forth that happens here inevitably leads to...escalation.

 

[milost]

That's for Christopher Nolan, not Batlobsterrises, to worry about though.

Another pointless, hypothetical, what if. I've tried to never push my kids into anything just because I like it. Not with sports, not with games and certainly not with movies. For the most part, they've all done their own thing. You stated that, "if pop culture doesn't do that for them, I will". So what happens if one day, good old Lobster Rises pops in TDKR for his lil' Lobster Jr. and they absolutely loathe it? Better yet, their reaction is that of a lil' miniature Milost? What then?

I know you're not thinking about it outside a message board (atleast I hope not ), but that just seems so inconsequential to me. The fact that every so often it starts to rear it's ugly head concerns me a bit. Are some of you afraid that the things you like are just going to fade away? I PROMISE you they'll still exist, trust me.

When I was a kid catching all those 70s and 80s movies, I never once thought about how they were going to play out in the future. The future just sort of happened and it they were what they were. Why is it so important?

 

[BatLobster]

Well, again, it's not something I'm worried about. And of course, I wouldn't push my kids to like anything. In fact, I'm used to familial disagreement when it comes to Batman. My dad was a huge Adam West fan and detested the Burton/Keaton movies, and yet that's what I grew up loving and became "my Batman" as a kid. But at the same time him being a fan of Batman is what initially got me started. So at least there was that. Anyway that's neither here nor there. Knock wood, my girlfriend and I are not planning on popping any out just yet.

Let's call it what it is. You're obviously in the ballpark of 8-10 years older than me. In a way, I envy you because I think you got to enjoy what is essentially the golden age of cinema. What I wouldn't give to have been there to see and experience Star Wars through the eyes of a kid seeing it for the first time on the big screen. Or even Batman 89 (I was three). Ever since I've been a movie fan I feel like I've been waiting for that "thing", that moment, where a movie becomes a larger than life event. Things got close- Matrix, LOTR...but the Matrix sequels didn't fare so well which made me a pesky "apologist" and I'm truthfully just not a huge LOTR fan. And you might ask why was I waiting for that "something"? If you have any inclination to ask that question than I don't think you're ever going to see where I'm coming from. The answer is that it's simply a lot of fun to share in the excitement with people. It's that communal effect of sitting around the campfire to be told a story (which is the experience of going to any movie), only amplified big time. The fact that it came in the form of a Batman series in the style that I had always hoped for? Well that just delighted me to no end. You have to realize that I have friends who NEVER liked Batman at all. Not the comics, toons or old movies. And they worship at the ground of TDKT, calling them some of their favorite movies period. That is ridiculously satisfying to me. And it's another reason I do believe this series has lasting appeal beyond just the hardcore fanboys.

The truth is, I do prefer older movies. When I think about the future of blockbuster movies right now, it's not a pretty picture in my head with the way things are going. It's clear to me that Nolan's intent with these movies was to do bring the influence of the big movies of his childhood (and I guess yours) to a new generation. And that's what he did for me. They felt like something of a different era to me, despite being ultra-modern in a lot of ways. If that's not the case in 20 years and TDK is no longer remembered as a classic, that's fine. But when I say that that "it's my Star Wars", I'm just trying to relay my experience of seeing the movies. They filled a very specific void I had been feeling as a lover of genre movies.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Agreed BatLobster on old movies being better and Nolan emulating them to an extent.

 

[DACrowe]

Where are large groups of people ranting and raving about how great Temple of Doom, Return of the Jedi, the Last Crusade and the Dark Knight Rises are? Or how revered their sequels' trilogies are (other than Lucasfilm or Warner Bro. selling boxed movie sets)? I'm talking RIGHT now as we speak. Who is deciding these things? Is there a pop culture committee that I'm not aware of that have put in a vote or tally? Can I walk into my local Best Buy or theater and see this information?

Phantom of Menace Box Office: $1.02 billion

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Box office: $786 million

Both of those came almost 20 years after the previous one. That shows a general hype and nostalgia for the previous efforts. Indeed, one can even see the fanbase *****ing always about how these new films are not as good as the "old trilogy" or the "old ones." Not Empire; not raiders. But all of them.

I see folks ripping on these movies all the time, all over the web. "Always find one odd person on the internet *****ing about the Ewoks"? That crap is always coming up, as is the same argument of Leia being Luke's sister being a cop out, or the movie falling apart once they're at Endor. It isn't the same people either, unless I'm supposed to believe this is all a conspiracy of one individual trying to sound like the voices of many.

It is a bunch of fanboys who make a vocal minority by over scrutinizing everything for years and years. There are millions of people who grow up on those movies, otherwise they wouldn't be a cultural phenomenon. And they buy them as a trilogy, pass them to their kids as a trilogy, and buy just as much pop culture revelry be it from toys to Family Guy and South Park parodies about spoofs of Jabba the Hut, Princess Leia Bikini, Darth Vader dying, Indiana Jones being called junior and hearts getting ripped out by faux-Indian ceremonies. They are ubiquitous in the culture and are treated with much nostalgia in it, as opposed to something like the Matrix, which has fairly well shriveled away save for the odd 360 camera reference.

But yes, fans will always complain on the Internet. But dogs will also chase cars.

 

[DACrowe]

What I don't seem to grasp is why you're so concerned about tomorrow, and about a series of movies no less.

We're all fans here, but what does it matter how they're viewed 20 years from now? It's only been a little over a YEAR for crying out loud.

Y'all seem to like to speak hypothetically and make these crazy comparisons to fit some "relevance agenda", so let me ask this. 20 years from now, what if "nobody" cares about TDKR (or, sure, the entire Trilogy) except the 4 or 5 people in this very thread? How would that even be measurable? Better yet, why would that be important? They resonate with the folks that like them, correct? So why the hell does it matter if others don't? I don't think anyone on Superherohype/Batman/Batman movies section let's anyone's opinions dictate their own (I certainly try not to). Not supporters, not detractors. Why then, are we concerned about the thoughts of a nameless and faceless populace two decades from now? It makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when some of us might not be around.

As you get older, you'll find that time gets faster and faster and things rapidly change. With attention spans getting shorter (studies have SHOWN this) and entertainment being reflected in the technologies of the time, why would anyone in their right mind want to think 20 years forward where it'll be even worse? Enjoy the here and now, not how well or poorly a movie series (that you may love or hate) will be received decades from now. It seems a little neurotic to me, but then again, it's always been this odd pissing contest where fans of something obsess over little things like trailer watch count, box office numbers, awards i.e. things they have absolutely no stake or money in. It's just emotional attachment. I mean, it's normal to want others to love what you love, but only to a point. No matter what happens, I promise everyone that you'll find atleast one like minded individual that shares your stance and opinion in SOMETHING and you'll be able to discuss all of it's greatness to your hearts content. That's the nature of the internet and these message boards. For now? It's over. There are no more trailers, no more virals, no more speculation, only reflection. All there will ever be is "I like" and "I don't like" (and the occasional pic of behind the scenes info that makes us drool, "I've never seen/heard about that before!").

In essence, you are asking why any art (even crass commercialism like that of a superhero movie) should be relevant. I suppose if you take that much of a broad context about it, you're right. It's not.

I think this whole circular argument is a few people will never, ever quit criticizing this movie for what they deem "plot holes" (though genuinely it has more to do with departures from the comic, IMO) for going on two years now. And others point out that it has high critical praise from not just professional critics, but also filmmakers, artists and the overall general audience.

And it is nice to see something that will endure. I think these films are told in a very classical way, which gives them somewhat of a timeless quality, despite being so grounded in the post-9/11 years (which ironically will only help them standout more as film historians undoubtedly are going to draw many conclusions between that horrific tragedy and American pop culture's escape into capes and costumes in the immediate following years).

It really boils down to providing context about why Rises is so standout in its genre. But yes, it does not really matter one way or the other if we are talking about the greater scheme of life. Nor does it really matter that The Godfather films are still being watched either if you want to think about it.

 

[milost]

No, in essence I'm asking "who cares"?

It should have no bearing on how anyone here perceives the films themselves. I mean, why are we so concerned with others? We see complaints, big and small, valid as any comment of praise and yet we have to find some sort of retort that that opinion is somehow irrelevant, wrong or insignificant to comfort our own. Every so often it's brought up out of no where; as if the person that brings it up is somehow afraid that these films will fade away in obscurity and be forgotten. Which won't happen. It's as if they have to constantly remind themselves, and others, that, "yes, this stuff is genuinely good", "yes, this stuff is genuinely good", over and over again, ad nauseam in order to prove some kind of point. Then we see these crazy comparisons to other things that are perceived as great as a sort of reassurance that, yes, this too will follow the same path and be just as relevant! It's pointless. Forget the "art" aspect, forget the pop culture and contemporary themes (what interpretation of Batman hasn't been contemporary) and it really boils down to simply "I like this" or "I don't like this". I think it's fair to say that most of the audience that watch all these damn things aren't looking at it on such a scholarly level and they simply enjoyed or disliked the film/films. Nuff said.

If you have to constantly ask and question the quality of something, is it really all it's cracked up to be?

This isn't an insult but I truly believe that us Batman fans (and yes, I'll include myself in this group), particularly of the Batman films have this sort of neurotic compulsion when it comes to this stuff. As a fan base it's gotten to level I couldn't even fathom. It's like these things just can't be great flicks, they have to be "something more". Then even then, something beyond that.

 

[BatLobster]

To be frank milost, the way I see it, I think you're the one with the neurotic compulsion to lash out against any attempt to predict what the legacy of these movies might be. I really don't see anything particularly wrong with that. Is it all that much different than people comparing Lebron James or Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan? Or calling Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera future hall of famers? People looking for a "generational equivalent" or discussing the future legacy of things in the present is not limited to Batman fans on SuperHeroHype.

We both know that it all boils down to "I like this" or "I don't like this. We've been doing that dance here for a while now. It gets old. We've agreed on this.

Me saying I think the trilogy will be celebrated in the future is NO DIFFERENT than the countless TDKR haters here who have made claims like, "This movie won't stand the test of time!" or "You'll see, in 5 years all the people who like the movie now will have turned on it!". It's all just a more grandiose way of saying "Time will prove me right."

So it's not like only the "apologist" crowd here took it to that level. Like I said, escalation. We're all to blame and no one's to blame. But I still don't think it's a "bad" discussion to have.

 

[James H]

The Dark Knight Rises has a rating of 8.6 on IMDb from over 700,000 votes! Extraordinary

Rated higher than:

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
Star Wars - Return of the Jedi
Back to the Future 2
Back to the Future 3
Godfather Part 3
Aliens
Toy Story 3
Any Marvel movie
Burton's Batman
Donner's Superman
Terminator
All Rocky movies
All Harry Potter films
All Jurassic Park films
All Bond films
All Star Trek films

Again, the rating is from over 700,000 votes. Amazing - it truly is one of the most well-loved films I have ever seen.

 

[Shikamaru]

P.S. If I just read a long analogy that implied Spider-Man (2002) is about average with Green Lantern, then nope.

Not to go down that rabbit hole, but TASM is far more akin to the lifeless, committee-approved bit of studio pandering that was GL. Okay, sorry I had to say that.

Oh nonononono. Spider-Man (2002) is still galaxies ahead of Green Lantern in terms of quality and portrayal. The implied idea was that GL would be bumped up by nostalgia to "one of the greatest CBM's of all time" status much like SM1 and many other movies of the time or prior to that (SM1 is only the tip of the iceberg). Then if a reboot in the future would have came out that did GL better, the same arguments would have been used. However, SM1 itself is still better than GL.

 

[DACrowe]

No, in essence I'm asking "who cares"?

It should have no bearing on how anyone here perceives the films themselves. I mean, why are we so concerned with others? We see complaints, big and small, valid as any comment of praise and yet we have to find some sort of retort that that opinion is somehow irrelevant, wrong or insignificant to comfort our own. Every so often it's brought up out of no where; as if the person that brings it up is somehow afraid that these films will fade away in obscurity and be forgotten. Which won't happen. It's as if they have to constantly remind themselves, and others, that, "yes, this stuff is genuinely good", "yes, this stuff is genuinely good", over and over again, ad nauseam in order to prove some kind of point. Then we see these crazy comparisons to other things that are perceived as great as a sort of reassurance that, yes, this too will follow the same path and be just as relevant! It's pointless. Forget the "art" aspect, forget the pop culture and contemporary themes (what interpretation of Batman hasn't been contemporary) and it really boils down to simply "I like this" or "I don't like this". I think it's fair to say that most of the audience that watch all these damn things aren't looking at it on such a scholarly level and they simply enjoyed or disliked the film/films. Nuff said.

If you have to constantly ask and question the quality of something, is it really all it's cracked up to be?

This isn't an insult but I truly believe that us Batman fans (and yes, I'll include myself in this group), particularly of the Batman films have this sort of neurotic compulsion when it comes to this stuff. As a fan base it's gotten to level I couldn't even fathom. It's like these things just can't be great flicks, they have to be "something more". Then even then, something beyond that.

It is more of providing context to how silly some of the fanboy nitpicking gets on here. If you sat in this thread or you sat on these boards alone, you'd imagine that half the audience despised TDKR and that it didn't make a billion dollars, have critics mostly raving about it or had a glowing CinemaScore rating from the GA.

You're right: Who cares? Who cares if anyone likes anything? Well the answer is obviously you care. Because you come to this board for going on a year now to bash this movie almost weekly. Clearly you care enough to reinforce your opinion about how much you hate this movie. And then you want to prove it is not as good as TDK (which few would disagree with) by stating how the culture's already moved on.

Obviously it has, but if one reads the tea leaves, these movies have a staying power, IMO for those who actually rewatch movies. There are still Bane parodies in comedies a year later and references in pop culture longer than that. I think it was made with enough care that it will stand the test of time. You disagree. I guess we will just have to see. But I can tell you one thing: Nobody is talking about Loki in Avengers or the ending of that film a year later, and it basically had two sequels in the last eight months. When I see both appearing far and away from this site for Rises, it shows that the movie obviously left some faint impression for others besides comic book fans.

 

[DACrowe]

Oh nonononono. Spider-Man (2002) is still galaxies ahead of Green Lantern in terms of quality and portrayal. The implied idea was that GL would be bumped up by nostalgia to "one of the greatest CBM's of all time" status much like SM1 and many other movies of the time or prior to that (SM1 is only the tip of the iceberg). Then if a reboot in the future would have came out that did GL better, the same arguments would have been used. However, SM1 itself is still better than GL.

Fair enough, though I still don't think TASM does the character as a whole better than Raimi. It does his sense of humor better, but with the direction TASM is going (Venom and Sinister Six spin-offs, Harry [blackout]killing Gwen as the first GG[/blackout], the tonal shifts, etc.), I think Raimi's first two films will ultimately get the universe better. But that is another thread.

 

[Shikamaru]

Fair enough, though I still don't think TASM does the character as a whole better than Raimi. It does his sense of humor better, but with the direction TASM is going (Venom and Sinister Six spin-offs, Harry [blackout]killing Gwen as the first GG[/blackout], the tonal shifts, etc.), I think Raimi's first two films will ultimately get the universe better. But that is another thread.

I think the Venom/S6 spinoffs are the stupidest idea coming from Sony since SM3 but technically, those are separate films from the Spider-Man films themselves. [BLACKOUT]Harry killing Gwen[/BLACKOUT] is just a rumor at this point (though I wouldn't be too happy if it was true) and the tone is perfect & not an issue IMO. But yes, that is a topic for another thread.

 

[shauner111]

I think ill hang here before i go back to Burton threads, where people will ignore you if you tell them you dont like something. At least when Shikamaru comes in here and argues, he does it well, and i dont ignore him. We all can debate and then show some respect.

As for this thread? I watched the documentary again on the trilogy. I didn't think it was pretentious myself, but i could maybe see how some would consider it to be that way. I think a lot of it was based on facts and harmless opinions. Things about how "reboots" were unheard of before Begins.

The thing that strikes me the most about these movies, is that video i saw today with the actors commenting on whether they like Superman or Batman more. A lot of the supporters keep defending Batman with "But what Nolan did was great! The depth, etc". Maybe it's because it's the most recent thing, but i just find it cool that they're being asked about the character in total. And after 75 years, theyre referencing the trilogy as a huge reason why they love him. But it's not done as a band-wagon thing. It's genuinely like "ive been a fan since i was a kid and what Nolan did!"

So i stick with my stance that these movies will be remembered. It seems like it affected the general audience and fans quite a bit. Im always hearing a lot of actors talking well about them. So obviously it's a big thing for film fans too. Which is why i said Nolan would be the main reason as to why TDK-T is remembered.

And quite honestly, i dont see Affleck's movies getting darker. Batman COULD be much darker than the Nolan movies. We all know this. But i just dont think Snyder/Affleck will supply that. Automatically when you bring the bat-family & Justice League into it, it's going to get a little more fun.

 

[JackWhite]

What's this video you speak of shauner?

 

[shauner111]

What's this video you speak of shauner?

[YT]?v=ul3T3VuoJgQ[/YT]

 

[JackWhite]

Thanks, Shauner. Cool video.