The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 148

[shauner111]

I watched TDK yesterday and as much as i love the movie, i still think Rises is better. There's more Begins in it which is always a good thing, the scope is larger and it leaves me with a more emotional feeling.

 

[JackWhite]

I watched TDK yesterday and as much as i love the movie, i still think Rises is better. There's more Begins in it which is always a good thing, the scope is larger and it leaves me with a more emotional feeling.

But dude, you're doing it wrong.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

I watched TDK yesterday and as much as i love the movie, i still think Rises is better. There's more Begins in it which is always a good thing, the scope is larger and it leaves me with a more emotional feeling.

It feels good knowing I'm not the only one who prefers Rises over TDK. Hell, TDK is actually the weakest of the trilogy in my opinion...but people tend to to just shut those opinions out.

 

[georgec]

ChrisB said it best somewhere back in an older thread - TDK is probably the best standalone film of the three since it can be enjoyed apart from the other two films. On the other hand, as a conclusion to the trilogy TDKR is a more emotional, captivating experience for me. I love both films to death but TDKR is my slight favorite as it brings everything to an epic close.

 

[ThePhantasm]

BB and TDK are great Batman movies. TDKR is a really good James Bond movie in which Batman shows up in one or two scenes.

 

[Thoix]

BB and TDK are great Batman movies. TDKR is a really good James Bond movie in which Batman shows up in one or two scenes.

All three movies feel like great Batman movies. And Batman is in the whole movie, his name is just Bruce Wayne.

 

[The Joker]

TDKR is the only one in the trilogy that loses some of it's charm every time I re-watch it. BB and TDK still hold up great.

 

[Thoix]

TDKR is the only one in the trilogy that loses some of it's charm every time I re-watch it. BB and TDK still hold up great.

Not for me. Each one is still superb and the only thing I've lost after watching them multiple time is my exciment of watching them for the first time.

BB blew me away because I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know much about it but when I saw it I really got back into Batman again.

TDK floored me. I think it was the last time I was truly amazed while watchinf a movie in the theater. It remains the best Batman movie, if not comic book movie to this day.

TDKR was the most satifying experience I had watching a movie. I wenr knowing it probably would not be as good as TDK, but I still thought it would be another movie on par with TDK. For me, it was. It was the most emotional Batman movie for me. Every seen with Bruce and Alfred had me invested and tearing up at some points. Batman and Bane's fight was fantastic. It felt brutal and my jaw dropped when Nolan incorperated the iconic "Breaking the Bat" scene. I truly did not believe Nolan would go that far, but I loved that he did. The action in the end was top notch, especially the Bat sequence. And then there's the ending that was perfect for the finale of this trilogy. I truly believed Bruce was dead, but when I realized he was alive I was immensely happy. I was glad to finally see Bruce given the ending he deserved without detracting from his character or story in anyway.

My personal order for these movies is this: TDKR > TDK > BB, and I give the trilogy a 10/10.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

See, one of the main complaints about TDKR is that is doesn't feel like a Batman movie. I disagree completely. I think it feels far more like a Batman movie than TDK. One of my biggest peeved with TDK is that Nolan crafted a world that is the most real life of the trilogy. It really does simply feel like a regular film with Batman in it.

Rises has a more comic book like plot, action, and Gotham. It's still serious and grounded, but little things like Bats and Cats teaming up, the action, and the overall plot make it feel like it comes more from a comic book world than TDK. My favorite Gotham of the trilogy is BB, but Rises gives Gotham a more mega-city, metropolis look that sets it just outside of reality which I was soooo happy to see.

I don't care what anybody says, TDK really lost steam and became exhausting in the last act. After the hospital explosion it felt it kicked into overdrive to wrap everything up and the Two-Face arc felt very, very forced. I adore TDK until the last act. It's an intense, well acted, suspenseful film but the last act just crams too much in, in far too little time. BB and TDKR build and build and build to explosive and satisfying climaxes.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I agree that it had a more comic-book like plot, and I liked it. I just didn't think the character of Batman was quite the same. He seemed more like a depressed James Bond type than a tragedy-driven Bruce Wayne. The character wasn't all there.

Plus you had classics like Gordon and Alfred get shafted in favor of two-dimensional bores like Blake and Miranda Tate (who wasn't Talia in anything but name).

 

[NewYorkSpider]

TDKR is the only one in the trilogy that loses some of it's charm every time I re-watch it. BB and TDK still hold up great.

This is how I feel. I've tried watching TDKR several times when it was on HBO. I just can't bring myself to like it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

In retrospect I think the film's uplifting ending was also a mistake. Even Mask of the Phantasm knew better than to try that. Batman's story isn't one with happy endings.

 

[BatLobster]

The happy ending is what ruled most.

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Thoix]

In retrospect I think the film's uplifting ending was also a mistake. Even Mask of the Phantasm knew better than to try that. Nathan's story isn't one with happy endings.

They're two different interpretations. Mask of the Phantasm wasn't then of Batman's crime-fighting, it was a story that fit into the animated series. Nolan told a complete story and took a risk giving an ending that Bruce deserves, a happy one. I don't agree with the notion that Batman has to be a completely tragic character. I'm glad that Nolan not only made a complete Batman story with a uplifting ending, but also fits in context with his own interpretation of the character.

It makes the whole trilogy rewatchable even more knowing Bruce succeeds in his mission and is also given the ending he truly deserves.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

They're two different interpretations. Mask of the Phantasm wasn't then of Batman's crime-fighting, it was a story that fit into the animated series. Nolan told a complete story and took a risk giving an ending that Bruce deserves, a happy one. I don't agree with the notion that Batman has to be a completely tragic character. I'm glad that Nolan not only made a complete Batman story with a uplifting ending, but also fits in context with his own interpretation of the character.

It makes the whole trilogy rewatchable even more knowing Bruce succeeds in his mission and is also given the ending he truly deserves.

Could anybody really begrudge Nolan's Bruce Wayne a happy ending? For that matter, could you really begrudge Bruce Wayne from any medium a happy ending?

I know a lot of people like the idea of these things going on for practically forever, like the comics and animated series, but it feels so very refreshing to actually experience a self-contained story with a clear beginning and end. It's one of the trilogy's great strengths IMO.

 

[Travesty]

I think the ending is downright comedic. I think once Catwoman kills Bane, the entire movie just turns into one joke after another. From Talia's ridiculous death scene, to Batman surviving a nuke within 5-8 seconds, to Blake's real name being Robin, etc. I mean, I couldn't stop face palming.

It kinda felt like Nolan was trying to make a Batman 60s movie, but set it in "the real world".

 

[shauner111]

It bothers me as a fan that any so-called "fan" wouldn't want Bruce having a happy ending. That sounds like the person doesn't care about Bruce Wayne the character whatsoever and is just fascinated by the concept of Batman, loves seeing the cool visuals and doesn't really care about him. Just wants to see the Batman in action all the time or in depression mode. It's very weird to me. It's like people just don't give a damn about Bruce Wayne. If they did, they would want to see the guy come out happy. Do people not have a soul? LOL.

In retrospect I think the film's uplifting ending was also a mistake. Even Mask of the Phantasm knew better than to try that. Batman's story isn't one with happy endings.

Well this one was. Somebody was bound to do it sooner or later and it sure as hell wouldn't happen in the comics. Im glad Nolan did it because if one hero deserves a happy ending it's Batman.

I really hate the idea that Bruce needs to remain tragic until he dies a miserable death. Screw that concept. It bores the hell out of me because we've seen it for 75 years. Im so sick and tired of it. TDKR will always be one of my favorite movie endings, ever. Gets me everytime.

I think the ending is downright comedic. I think once Catwoman kills Bane, the entire movie just turns into one joke after another. From Talia's ridiculous death scene, to Batman surviving a nuke within 5-8 seconds, to Blake's real name being Robin, etc. I mean, I couldn't stop face palming.

It kinda felt like Nolan was trying to make a Batman 60s movie, but set it in "the real world".

He didnt survive the nuke within 5 to 8 seconds, obviously im facepalming at this right now. Nolan screws with the order of the scenes, like he does with his films. It's trickery. He got out long before that.

 

[Travesty]

He didnt survive the nuke within 5 to 8 seconds, obviously im facepalming at this right now. Nolan screws with the order of the scenes, like he does with his films. It's trickery. He got out long before that.

Yes, I've heard you guys say this a 1000x. If that's true, it's a really really horrible way at trying to make a "twist". Either Nolan did a horrible twist, or they wrote the ending badly. Either way, it stinks. And stinks bad.

It's kinda hard to justify it that way, especially when it clearly shows us just that.

 

[The Joker]

Could anybody really begrudge Nolan's Bruce Wayne a happy ending? For that matter, could you really begrudge Bruce Wayne from any medium a happy ending?

No, I wouldn't begrudge any noble hero a happy ending, but that doesn't mean I want to see it, especially with Batman. He's not a happy ending type of character. That's one thing I love about The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond. We saw years into the future that Bruce was still alone.

 

[BatLobster]

I will admit that the shot of Batman in the cockpit is borderline cheating...HOWEVER, I think Nolan gets away with it because the image itself is telling us an important part of the story. It's showing us Bruce in the moment where he decides he wants to live. It's deceptive because in the moment it reads as, "Welp...guess this is it for me. It's been a good run." But because that other meaning is true, the shot is justified in being there. Especially because it's the last glimpse of Batman we get for the whole trilogy. It needed to be a meaningful shot. And it gets away with it because the shot is purely open to interpretation- it allows you to read into it differently based on context. The fact that it temporarily cheats the idea that he died in the explosion is also very important. The whole ending works because of the emotional journey it takes you on, from rock bottom all the way back to the top of the mountain. Sure, we all had our suspicions that Bruce was going to really be alive and we all probably knew it on some level. But at the same time, there was this nagging voice in my head of "Dear God...did Nolan actually do it?" for the first half of the ending montage. And that was key. I actually allowed myself to accept the reality of Bruce being dead and feel saddened by it. This crystalized for me the fact that an affirmative ending for Bruce's character was necessary. Seeing Bruce's gravestone next to his parents...it was shocking and just felt wrong. But it's an important glimpse into what could've been had Bruce not re-discovered the will to live in the pit. Of course, there's probably something of a "he rises from the grave"/Jeebus metaphor in there somewhere too, but probably more in a tongue in cheek way since he very explicitly chooses NOT to be a martyr and only puts on the show of being one. This is actually a pretty dark action when you think about it, but deception has always been part of Batman's M.O. It's fitting that his final acts as Batman all involve deception in some way or another.

It's like they presented both possible endings and allowed us to go through the emotional experience of both. But in the end this went a long way in hitting home the fact that Bruce needed to live in order for the story to truly end on a note of triumph. Although in reality, it's a very bittersweet ending regardless. For me particularly because of the fatherly bonds Bruce had with Alfred, Gordon and Lucius throughout the movies- and the ending is really him saying goodbye to all of them in various ways. So it was far from a sunshine and rainbows ending. It's even sad to me that Bruce won't be suiting up as Batman again. But the triumph is in Bruce finally getting what he needs and deserves.

 

[shauner111]

Yes, I've heard you guys say this a 1000x. If that's true, it's a really really horrible way at trying to make a "twist". Either Nolan did a horrible twist, or they wrote the ending badly. Either way, it stinks. And stinks bad.

It's kinda hard to justify it that way, especially when it clearly shows us just that.

I dont see how that's the case. It's called non-linear order. Especially the way it's edited. People would know this if they're aware of Nolan's other films. He likes trickery, and everything is there for a reason, whether people like it or not, understand it or not. Batman looking over his shoulder then into the future is right after going over the bridge (hell it could have even been after the buildings exploded)..the beach shot is there for a reason. Because that's probably where he got out. Obviously the twist worked because people didn't expect him to show up at the end. So it's a good twist. Also more people in general were touched emotionally by the ending than the ones who weren't. So Nolan's twist certainly wasn't horrible. It's too bad you feel that way.

 

[Tequilla]

Yes, I've heard you guys say this a 1000x. If that's true, it's a really really horrible way at trying to make a "twist". Either Nolan did a horrible twist, or they wrote the ending badly. Either way, it stinks. And stinks bad.

It's kinda hard to justify it that way, especially when it clearly shows us just that.

Not really cheating , twisting , (the bad part , sure you could say that) , its a style of editing technique where continuity is broken (in this case , time is simply dilated) . It has almost 100 years old. Hardly innovating or not widely used.

Batman face- Long Horizon Shot (it lasts like 5 seconds) - timer - Blake-bomb.

It would be cheating if the order wasn't the one i just mentioned. Like timer-batman face. But that isn't the case.

 

[shauner111]

Cheating should not be used as a word. It's cinema. It's editing. It's actually all cheating, because that's what it's all about. Playing with people's emotions, making people believe in things that aren't real. Fooling them.

Watch The Prestige and you will understand the ending of TDKR more, and why Nolan likes to do these things.

 

[Travesty]

I just feel bad for Selina, seeing as she's now with Radioactive Nan.

Poor Selina.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

No, I wouldn't begrudge any noble hero a happy ending, but that doesn't mean I want to see it, especially with Batman. He's not a happy ending type of character. That's one thing I love about The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond. We saw years into the future that Bruce was still alone.

Exactly. You've seen the 'alone' version of Bruce Wayne a dozen times over, so what's the problem in actually seeing him ending up happy?