The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 149

[shauner111]

You got it guys.

The latest thing was Nolan so they wanted Amazing Spider-Man to take after it. Then Avengers came out and their universe is expanding, just like DC's, so Sony is making Amazing Spider-Man 2 take after that approach. Hence the tone, and the announcement about Sinister Six + Venom.

 

[milost]

Green Goblin's suit in the first Raimi Spider-Man film was tactical and for the military. Nolan was inspired by it and copied it for the Dark Knight suit. There were darkly lit, gritty scenes in Spider-Man 2 like Doc Ock killing everyone unconsciously in the hospital room. Every dark and gritty comic book movie to date has copied it.

If we dig deeper, basically every comic book film except Superman: The Movie (and Superman II) and Batman 1989 have been a rip off inspired by something that's already done. Those are the grand daddies that inspired everything.

 

[shauner111]

That scene in the hospital is like straight out of Evil Dead or something. Dark and gritty? It's a fun, cheeseball scene. Like a comedic horror movie. Classic Raimi.

 

[The Joker]

There was nothing cheese ball or comedic about the Doc Ock hospital massacre. Doctors and nurses being picked up by their faces, electrocuted, impaled on walls, fingernails scraping across the floor.

Dark violent awesome scene.

 

[milost]

"Cheeseball"

Yeah, those tentacle claws ripping people apart off screen was totally fun and cheesy. Hell, I remember thinking the fight in the first Spider-Man film when the Green Goblin beats down Spidey was pretty damn brutal and violent for what it was. There was this mom taking her kid out when Goblin punched him into the brick wall.

"OMG, DARK AND GRITTY" right?

 

[DACrowe]

Dark, violent, awesome, and hilarious.

I am sure we have all seen Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness. If you have, then that bone saw, that looks ever so much like a chainsaw, is a direct homage to those movies. As is the Ock "arm vision" where we see the arms going after their victims in swift moving POV images, just like the "Force" images in every single Evil Dead movie.

It was violent, but campy. Some people may view Evil Dead 1 and 2 as horror movies. But in the right light, they are hilarious, just as that scene is in the second Raimi movie, as well as a few other cheeky moments from the first one like the final Spidey and Green Goblin fight in the warehouse.

 

[milost]

If those scenes constitute as "campy, cheesy and cheeky", I'd hate to see what some of you think of Jaws (extreme) or Jurassic Park (less extreme).

Yeah, yeah, we know Raimi's film background. The scenes you're mentioning are hardly "camp" though. Not on Evil Dead levels. I seem to recall the tentacles lifting one of the surgeons up to one of the lights and smashing his hand/shoulder up into it and electrifying him with brutal screams.

Oh yeah, just so tongue and cheek.

 

[DACrowe]

Compared to what trees do to people in the Evil Dead movies, that is just a lark.

 

[shauner111]

Ummmm if you guys take that scene serious, that's just hilarious. It's like a black comedy. It's Evil Dead, Army of Darkness, pure Raimi all over again. It's entertaining, it's funny and it's sick and dark at the same time.

Jurassic Park? What scenes? lol. There's plenty of scenes in that movie that are funny when somebody is getting killed, because of the reaction of the actors. But Raimi has always been about mixing comedy with darkness. The Doc Ock scene was him having some fun with what he normally does.

 

[The Joker]

If you didn't take that scene seriously then that is even more hilarious. A room full of people get slaughtered. Look at how it was filmed and executed. A dark creepy hospital operating room, no music, nothing but the sounds of screams and violence.

Exactly what was so hilarious about this scene?

 

[milost]

Those tentacles are similar to the raptors (if I remember it correctly). There's nothing comical in that sequence, save maybe him yelling on the operating bed. Those surgeons are dying. It's darker and more violent and foreboding than anything in Nolan's Bat films.

You guys are just being obnoxious now. Let me guess, y'all probably took Bane's "tickling" of Dagget ultra seriously right?

 

[DACrowe]

Joker I am not being condescending or anything, but have you seen Raimi's Evil Dead Trilogy? The man thrives on "dark settings" be they hospitals or cabins in the wood, and then making a mockery out of "horror."

He likes his horror to be both a bit unnerving (especially the first Evil Dead movie) but still slapstick and campy. He will freely admit that he draws more from the Three Stooges and Abbot and Costello when making horror than he does that genre's greats.

The Doc Ock scene was him doing what he does best. If you take it very seriously--which I'm sure children viewing it do--it's scary. The same could be said of Gozer eating Rick Moranis at the Tavern Green in Ghosbusters while a room full of New Yorkers look on with apathy.

But to an eye getting the humor--be it slapstick or a dig at elite New York narcissism--it is quite funny. Raimi feeds into that. He does play some deaths straight like Uncle Ben or Ben's killer in the first Spidey or even Ock's wife. But most of the time, there is a wink if you look for it and a smirk around the edges.

 

[shauner111]

Hahahaha omg. So somebody is dying so i can't laugh? You guys definitely need to see more comedic horror movies, especially the old Evil Dead ones. The raptors? That scene is funny too in Jurassic Park SHOOOOOT HHERRRRR!!! Newman from Seinfeld getting sprayed in his eyes. It's all awesome fun stuff. The Doc Ock scene is a fun scene, nothing serious about it unless your sense of humor is on a leash and think it has to be serious because people are dying in a movie. Sure there's some violent moments in that scene where you go Oooooh! But it's classic Raimi, it's all about how it's shot, edited. It's like straight out of a comic book or a good but cheesy horror movie.

Uncle Ben's death, THAT is a serious death scene.

 

[milost]

Woah.

Okay, now I know it isn't me. Whew.

 

[DACrowe]

milost, out of curiosity, did you find the death scenes in Evil Dead or Evil Dead 2 scary or serious? And while it is not Raimi, how about the deaths in Cabin in the Woods, or the Gozer attacks in Ghosbusters?

Horrific things can happen in movies, but they may not be meant to be taken earnestly serious by the filmmaker.

 

[shauner111]

Yeah seriously milost (and Joker). Have you guys even seen Evil Dead?

 

[The Joker]

Joker I am not being condescending or anything, but have you seen Raimi's Evil Dead Trilogy? The man thrives on "dark settings" be they hospitals or cabins in the wood, and then making a mockery out of "horror."

He likes his horror to be both a bit unnerving (especially the first Evil Dead movie) but still slapstick and campy. He will freely admit that he draws more from the Three Stooges and Abbot and Costello when making horror than he does that genre's greats.

Of course I've seen the Evil Dead movies. Classics in the horror genre. I know exactly how Raimi did his horror in those. In Spider-Man 2, the only inspiration he took from it was the P.O.V. tentacle shots and the dark creepy setting of the hospital room.

Nothing more. So exactly where is the slapstick comedy you and Shauner apparently found hilarious about this scene?

The Doc Ock scene was him doing what he does best. If you take it very seriously--which I'm sure children viewing it do--it's scary. The same could be said of Gozer eating Rick Moranis at the Tavern Green in Ghosbusters while a room full of New Yorkers look on with apathy.

Oh come on that is totally different. For a start Moranis' character never died. He was turned into a dog. Something they made a joke out of in Ghostbusters 2 when he tells a packed courtroom about it. "One time I turned into a dog and the Ghostbusters helped me. Thank you". Second that was so OBVIOUSLY played for a laugh. The room full of patrons stop for a moment and look at him getting attacked then carry on talking and eating their dinner like it was nothing.

Blatant comedy.

 

[DACrowe]

When the bone saw rises up above the table like a chainsaw from Evil Dead 2 with a sound effect cue of essentially awesomeness is about to ensue, that is meant to be funny. As are the nail scratches on the floor. It is incredibly over-the-top. As is Ock yelling no and his arms mimicking him. All of the images are also shot from extreme dutch angles for maximum distorted effect. While horror can do this, it is so exaggerated in this sequence, that it can also be viewed as overdoing it, intentionally so.

 

[DACrowe]

I will add the scene is not pure comedy. It is supposed to establish Doc Ock as a threat. But like the first Evil Dead and large swaths of the second one, it works on two layers. One of menace and one of dark comedy.

 

[The Joker]

When the bone saw rises up above the table like a chainsaw from Evil Dead 2 with a sound effect cue of essentially awesomeness is about to ensue, that is meant to be funny.

There was nothing funny about a woman being pulled across the floor to her death screaming in terror, and scraping her fingernails as she did it. That was horrific and gruesome. Most people find that part very squeamish to watch. Especially if you have a thing about fingernails.

That's not a dark comedy death. That's just dark. Joker and his pencil trick, that's a dark comedy death. People laughed in theaters when he did that. It wasn't gruesome, or even drawn out. It was quick, non gruesome, and Joker was funny. "Taaaa daaaaa it's....it's gone". Nobody was laughing when Ock was slaughtering the surgeon room. Anyone who says they were I call BS.

As is Ock yelling no and his arms mimicking him. All of the images are also shot from extreme dutch angles for maximum distorted effect. While horror can do this, it is so exaggerated in this sequence, that it can also be viewed as overdoing it, intentionally so.

Yeah Ock's "NOOOOOOOOO!!!" was corny, but it wasn't intended to be. Like Vader's one.

 

[milost]

milost, out of curiosity, did you find the death scenes in Evil Dead or Evil Dead 2 scary or serious? And while it is not Raimi, how about the deaths in Cabin in the Woods, or the Gozer attacks in Ghosbusters?

Horrific things can happen in movies, but they may not be meant to be taken earnestly serious by the filmmaker.

Evil Dead - Only thing that disturbed me was the tree rape. I thought that was unsettling/"scary" I guess. The rest of the violence? Quite comical I think, especially some of the sound effects

Evil Dead 2 - Absolutely nothing. No fears of dread, just a real fun time.

Cabin in the Woods - Never saw it

Ghostbusters - Nothing. Though, the idea that a possessed Sigourney Weaver and Rick Moranis "got it on", disturbed me for a few seconds



Look, I know the horror camp style. I'd agree with you in most cases DACrowe, not to worry (I don't want to seem to be constantly towards you, you seem like a good, intelligent poster) just not that surgery scene. There's nothing comical about it. I've seen funny deaths, none of those really were. Am I saying Spider-Man 2 is without humor or camp? Of course not. But that scene with the tentacles just isn't funny in anyway. It's certainly Raimi's style, but it isn't that Evil Dead style he had. That type of humor is there in, I don't know, when Doc Ock is rampaging through the streets, throwing people around, then climbing up the wall where a chick with pretty impressive, ahem, assets, sees him and starts running towards the camera screaming. It's also there in DARKMAN.

Not those surgeons though. Not the one that gets attacked by 3 arms. Not the female surgeon that gets pulled under. Not the one that gets electrocuted. Not the one that gets his head thrown into the wall. That scene is played completely straight, until maybe the Frankenstein Monsteresque moment where Ock sees what he has done and loses it. Those kills? Pretty intense for a PG-13 comic book film. There's no laugh track moments that I could picture it like I could for say, Evil Dead or Evil Dead II.

 

[shauner111]

The woman on the floor, yeah that's always been over the top, and that's why ive always laughed at that. It's Raimi. It's not meant to be taken too seriously.

I haven't seen the first two Spidey movies in theaters so i wouldnt know, but i do know my reaction and the people i know. And ive seen the clip on youtube in the past and i remember people saying it was a fun, funny yet dark Raimi type scene.

 

[DACrowe]

I am not sure it is laugh out loud. I was a bit surprised at how dark it got when I saw it in theaters twice in 2004. However, the second time I was smiling way more. The only part that is meant to elicit explicit laughs is the bone saw. And that is quite laugh out loud funny. The rest, I find, you are meant to smile or maybe chuckle through. It does work on those two levels.

Also, see Cabin in the Woods. I know we strongly disagree on one Nolan movie, but that is a Whedon film that everyone seems to love.

 

[Green Goblin]

Sony still haven't gotten back to me about the What If? filmexploring what would happen if Spider-Man joined GG to help him rule the city.

Just Imagine Green Goblin as the Mayor of New York and Spidey being a DA. I'll give 100 internet dollars to whoever gives me a title.

 

[milost]

Also, see Cabin in the Woods. I know we strongly disagree on one Nolan movie, but that is a Whedon film that everyone seems to love.

I'll look into it.