The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 149

[DACrowe]

Probably because of those little Nolan Batman influences...It felt off to me. The first two games had a Timmverse influence all over, but Origins got rid of all of it.

While there are winks to all the most popular images of Batman in all three Batman games, including Nolan, I will agree that the first two games felt very much like the R-rated version of the Timm/Dini verse. I wouldn't say that Origins was strictly Nolan-ized (I think even Nolan would be shocked at how the cops are depicted in Origins ), it certainly had more elements than the previous two games. From the suit being slightly darker and more armored, to certain aspects of the Batcave, the focus on the corruption (which to be fair is an aspect of any "early Batman" story).

Yeah, I could see that.

 

[DACrowe]

Whiny Joker voice? No way. He was an amazing Joker. One of the best. Better developed and written than Joker was in the previous two games, too. That goes for all the characters in Origins. All of them were better written and fleshed out.

Arkham City is basically chase the cure. A lot of people get brainwashed into thinking 'the setting IS the story' which it isn't.

Thing is, Arkham City ( the game title that is ) never ever was about Arkham City ( the prison itself ). Arkham City is arguably the most intriguing and fascinating premise for a Batman story. A walled off prison like Escape From New York, with some of Gotham's worst villains in there dividing up the land between them. Whenever people talk about the story all they have the image of that very unique setting in the back of their heads.

If you take the setting away, if you just take the game's plot and put it into just a random corner of Gotham City.. it's actually one of most bland, run-down-the-Mill and forgettable Batman stories ever created.

The story in Arkham City is nothing more then a glorified 'chase/track-down story', one we've seen at least a thousand times in the Batman comics and done less contrived too.

Batman has to find Catwoman for information
Batman has to find Joker just because he took a pot shot at Catwoman with a gun
Batman has to find Mr. Freeze for finding Joker's cure
Batman has to find Penguin for finding Freeze's suit
Batman has to find Ra's Al Ghul for finding an enzyme in his blood
Batman has to find Joker again for taking the cure
Batman has to stop Hugo Strange and stop Protocol 10
Batman has to find Joker again for taking Talia

Practically none of this has ANYTHING to do with the Arkham City situation or Strange foreshadowed "protocol 10", or the hierarchy among criminals and gang bosses.

I called Arkham City contrived because at times it really was. Batman is on a mission to stop Arkham City from the inside, take down Hugo Strange and prevent this mysterious "protocol 10" from happening. Yet for some reason he totally goes after Joker ( whose in prison with rules so "technically" is doing nothing wrong whatsoever ) because he fired a bullet at Catwoman. So what? It's the Joker! It's what he does for God's sake! Wouldn't taking down Hugo Strange be on a higher list for just this once?

Then Joker needs a cure.. which is again totally unrelated to any Protocol 10 sub-plot and is basically there to kill the time.. and of course Mr. Freeze has it. Who was coincidentally just kidnapped by Penguin, who then coincidentally needs a enzyme that only Ra's Al Ghul has, coincidentally one of his ninjas is sitting nearby in Penguin's display case.

I could go on, but the message should be clear. There's nothing extraordinary about Arkham City's story at all. Yes, the idea of prison built between Gotham were the inmates are allowed to tear each other apart.. is nothing short of genius. But it's never used for the story. The idea that Batman has to chase a cure because he got poisoned, is one the laziest and forgettable premises for a Batman there is. That's the main story.



Because it has a real character driven story to tell. There is not one character interaction in Asylum or City that matches to scenes like Joker's therapy session with Harley, or the Bruce/Alfred and Batman/Gordon interactions.

By the end of the story you feel like you've been through a proper rich Batman story.

Black Mask may have been wasted in Arkham Origins, but he was better used for the twist in the game. He didn't feel like a non entity. Unlike Hugo Strange and Two Face, who were promoted as big presence characters in AC, and are nothing but glorified cameos with barely any relevance to the main game story.

Even in the game you're always hearing Dent's man blabbing to each other that he's coming back, and you're waiting and waiting for it, and then we find out it's just a Catwoman side mission where she whups him again.

I love Asylum and City, brilliant games, but the game stories are among the weakest Dini has ever written. Asylum is better written than City though. City is by far the weakest of the trio story wise.

Hey for once, we pretty much agree on all points.

I would add that Hugo Strange as a presence is felt over the whole game and is not a glorified cameo like Two-Face, but I do agree that he is overshadowed completely by the cure storyline and Joker. Which is fine, but the whole game is an excuse for a "best of" hits with villains and scenarios. On that level it works. But as a story, it is pretty thin.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't hate the stories as much as everyone else does, but AA and AC did have story aspects that were clearly there just because it was a video game. Things like Joker turning into a giant monster at the end of AA, the Mr. Freeze boss battle - although great - happening for no story reasons whatsoever, etc. These things aren't necessarily horrible, but it is pretty crystal clear that they're only there because these are video games. If these stories were told in the comics, those aspects of the story would have been done completely different.

I do find the criticism of AC having too many villains a bit unfair though. The problem isn't the number of villains, but the execution and balance. With AA, they tried to go with a story that would have been a 6-12 issue arc in the comics. With AC, they tried to do a big comic book event akin to No Man's Land. If AC was a comic, things like Batman's encounters with Two-Face and Freeze would have each been a "mini arc" within the event, and things like the Catwoman DLC would be a tie-in. The side missions would have also been tie-ins. Unfortunately, they tried to cram a whole event into one game that takes place over the course of one night.

Despite AO's flaws though, it definitely has the best story of the three, or at least the best executed story in terms of pace, character development, etc. I think the game lacks some of the fun and magic that the first two had, but it definitely has some worthy elements that I want to see brought over to Rocksteady's next game.

 

[Green Goblin]

I don't get how a focus on the cops is Nolan like but yes I do think that Origins was a little Nolanized.

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't think it was Nolanized. I do think it had more of a movie feel though. As in it feels more like a movie script instead of a script for a comic book story. Even the whole look felt a bit more movie-ish, not that that is a bad thing.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't get how a focus on the cops is Nolan like but yes I do think that Origins was a little Nolanized.

I would say more Year One in general. But like Year One (and "sequels" whether Year Two or The Long Halloween/Dark Victory), it is focused heavily on the corruption of the GCPD and Batman's working relationship with Gordon. However, some could see that as a Nolan influence, as the cops, especially Gordon, are crucial in all three films, even when they make massive muck ups. While in the comics, these days, it feels more about Batman's global presence and his connection with other JL superheroes. So, some could conceive that to be a Nolan touch, but I think that particular aspect has more to do with this being an origins story.

With that said, I always prefer when they depict Gordon as a partner or serious ally to Batman, so that is nice to see in AO. In most comics, like the other Arkham games, he and the cops can be very peripheral about protecting the city.

 

[The Joker]

There was some visual nods to Nolan's movies like Batman's cowl, the Bat costume closet and how it came out from the floor, and Bane's black jacket (There you go, DaCrowe ).

Apart from that it was as comic booky as the previous games, only with a much better story.

 

[Travesty]

"Bane's black jacket".

 

[DACrowe]

Glad to hear it!

But I agree that the Arkham games reference more than Nolan. But the first two games do feel slightly more fantastic, if only because they have villains like Killer Croc, Mister Freeze, Clayface, etc.

 

[Tequilla]

Do you guys tend to complete the whole thing ? I mean the 100% ? I dont know if its my gaming ocd , but grabbing all those enigma datapacks sure is a chore. Yet i always end up doing them.

 

[Travesty]

I did for AA. With AC, there were way too many Riddler trophies to pick up. There's a point where it's just not fun anymore, and AC just made a lot of the side missions too tedious.

 

[Tequilla]

It feels like when i was a child and had homework to do. But in this case i end up doing them. Its the only thing im missing to get the 100% in Origins. It's such a dread to enter those interiors again. Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring.

 

[Shikamaru]

I can't remember the last time I 100% completed a game. I don't have the patience to do so.

 

[Travesty]

I only like doing it for gams I love to play. The only one I was really proud of was Super Meat Boy.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I got all the packs/trophies for all three, but not immediately. AA I did when I first got the game, AC was like...a year ago. That crap just got old and annoying at one point, honestly. I got all the packs in AO last month lol.

 

[Green Goblin]

(There you go, DaCrowe ).

Glad to hear it!

Hey for once, we pretty much agree on all points.

Is there like some ancient rivalry between you two? Longer before we all even realized this site existed?

Always nice to see mom and dad get along for once.

 

[Travesty]

I think you just missed the incredibly long debate about the Nolan influences in AO.

In fact, I think we should start them up again in this thread.

 

[BatLobster]

Lol, this thread taught me that those two have been debating each other since the Spider-Man 2 days.

That's a decade of forum rivalry right there.

 

[Tequilla]

I can't remember the last time I 100% completed a game. I don't have the patience to do so.

The problem is that without doing all these things , this games end up being very fast to go trough them.

 

[Green Goblin]

I think you just missed the incredibly long debate about the Nolan influences in AO.

In fact, I think we should start them up again in this thread.

I did a lttle. Never have I seen such passion for a fictional piece of clothing.

Lol, this thread taught me that those two have been debating each other since the Spider-Man 2 days.

That's a decade of forum rivalry right there.

That'll be you and Milost in 2024...

 

[AnneFan]

Do you guys tend to complete the whole thing ? I mean the 100% ? I dont know if its my gaming ocd , but grabbing all those enigma datapacks sure is a chore. Yet i always end up doing them.

I have all the riddle trophies/enigma datapacks for all three games. The 'reward' in Origins for completing the task was so lacklustre. But, I still enjoyed the process of getting there.

 

[The Joker]

The best thing about getting the Engima data packs I thought was it unlocked incriminating recording tapes of various characters.

I always get all the riddles/enigma packs every time I play the Arkham games. Though in AC it was a bit much. 440 of them!

 

[BatLobster]

That'll be you and Milost in 2024... :funny

Nahhh, we tend to see more eye to eye when it comes to movies outside of TDKR.

 

[shauner111]

I think he means me and milost haha. Then again, i dont think me and milost have talked about anything else other than Batman or TDKR at least. Maybe we would agree on a lot of ****.

 

[Green Goblin]

Nahhh, we tend to see more eye to eye when it comes to movies outside of TDKR.

Nah, you'll disagree on the next, next Batman actor's movie. Which will hopefully not be a re-re-reboot!

I think he means me and milost haha. Then again, i dont think me and milost have talked about anything else other than Batman or TDKR at least. Maybe we would agree on a lot of ****.

Yea here, we all love Nolan's first two.

*crying* NNOLAAAAAAAAAAAAN