The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - Part 150

[shauner111]

Alright, makes sense now.

BTW im not trying to make it seem like Nolan is a God and all the bad parts are Goyers fault. Nolan didnt want Superman killing Zod, but Goyer/Snyder did. I side with Goyer/Snyder on that one.

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah no worries, I get ya. And I agree, killing Zod wasn't a problem, it's how they handled what came after, which we've already thoroughly discussed lol. But that also does show that Snyder/Goyer made some changes to the original story.

Well, it'll be interesting to see how Goyer/Snyder gel with Terrio. I think some new blood can't be a bad thing at this point. I'm glad Nolan's gone, both for the sake of his career and the DC films. He left his mark, time to move on.

 

[The Shape]

The clean slate? Where you type in someone's name, date of birth and a few minutes their gone from every database on earth?

Sound a little too good to be true?!?

Worst expositional dialogue EVARRR!!

 

[shauner111]

Doesnt bother me but OK.

 

[BatLobster]

I think TheShape was poking fun of the people who get too bent out of shape about that line.

 

[The Shape]

That I was.

 

[shauner111]

It's what happens when you're in a thread with such negativity towards the movie.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Strangely, I think a scene similar to the one in Begins would have worked just as well.

''I won't kill you... but I don't have to save you!''

I don't know how exactly, but I'm sure they could have come up with a moment where Zod is facing imminent death and Superman chooses to walk away.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to quote Shauner, but you get the idea.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm not sure if this is confirmed, but if I'm not mistaken Goyer said that in the original version of the story Supes was supposed to send Zod back to the Phantom Zone.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I'm not sure if this is confirmed, but if I'm not mistaken Goyer said that in the original version of the story Supes was supposed to send Zod back to the Phantom Zone.

That I would have liked... no matter how cheesy or cliched some may have percieved it.

 

[The Shape]

I'm not sure if this is confirmed, but if I'm not mistaken Goyer said that in the original version of the story Supes was supposed to send Zod back to the Phantom Zone.

Eh, I liked what we got a bit better. It held more weight, IMO.

Superman reluctantly killing Zod (supposedly the last living Kryptonian other than himself) was effectively symbolic of him choosing the citizens of Earth as his people, and it showed how far he would go to protect us. Also, it leaves room for him to learn a good lesson. We saw how straining it was for him to have killed Zod. He clearly wasn't happy that he had to do that. Now, in his more experienced years of superheroism, he can do everything in his power to avoid situations like that.

 

[BatLobster]

I agree, I think having Superman kill Zod was probably the better story decision despite it inviting a boatload of controversy.

 

[The Shape]

I agree, I think having Superman kill Zod was probably the better story decision despite it inviting a boatload of controversy.

Plus, I really have no interest in ever seeing Zod again in one of these Superman/DC movies. I would've hated the typical "You haven't seen the last of me!" endings that we often get in these films.

 

[shauner111]

I would have hated it if they kept Zod alive.

 

[BatLobster]

I think Nolan was probably initially averse to the idea because he probably felt, "Didn't we sort of get ourselves in trouble with this once?" (with Ra's).

Cause if you read the TDK Screenplays book, the way they handled that was a source of disagreement between Chris and Jonah. I feel like making Bruce have to face some of the consequences of that decision in TDKR was their way of acknowledging that moral grey area.

Both are conjecture on my part but hey...it's that lull on a Friday where you're just waiting to leave work.

 

[Green Goblin]

I would have hated it if they kept Zod alive.

It works better for the story but, It's just I think he's kinda hot...

 

[Green Goblin]

I agree, I think having Superman kill Zod was probably the better story decision despite it inviting a boatload of controversy.

Didn't he kill Zod by throwing him into the sun in Superman 2?

 

[Shikamaru]

I love the idea of Superman killing Zod on paper, but the execution never worked for me. The scene itself os great, but a)they never establish his stance on killing nor is murdering a big theme in the film and b) it doesn't work with the happy ending. We never see Clark have his "never again" moment. It feels like they skipped over that entirely.

 

[shauner111]

Good point Shika.

 

[Green Goblin]

Shik and Shaunner in agreement?

:0

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I love the idea of Superman killing Zod on paper, but the execution never worked for me. The scene itself os great, but a)they never establish his stance on killing nor is murdering a big theme in the film and b) it doesn't work with the happy ending. We never see Clark have his "never again" moment. It feels like they skipped over that entirely.

Can't they just discuss this in Batman v Superman?

If Batman is going to have a problem with Supes... there's your perfect starting point.

 

[shauner111]

I think it will all happen in Batman vs Superman. Whether some of that was done on purpose, or if Goyer will put it in there to fix mistakes from the first, we'll see it in the sequel.

It's a shared universe, with many sequels and spin-offs, so i dont mind. For those who want each movie to feel complete, then that will make MOS feel like a letdown. But i can wait for things to be explained in a sequel.

 

[Shikamaru]

Can't they just discuss this in Batman v Superman?

If Batman is going to have a problem with Supes... there's your perfect starting point.

Sorry but I have to disagree. It should have been in MOS. It was a big part of Clark's character arc related to MOS. There is no good reason for why it couldn't have been there.

This isn't television; these are movies. A film can set up certain stuff and leave certain doors open for the sequel, but I shouldn't have to wait another 3 years to get a complete story. This goes for all franchise films today, not just MOS. I'm really sick and annoyed by all the films that leave too many loose threads...to the point the film overall feels incomplete. Marvel's Phase 1 films did this, TASM did this, MOS did this, etc.

If a writing team wants to do that, they're better off sticking to TV.

 

[shauner111]

i do agree that it should have been in MOS, but it doesn't bother me too much because it's not like they'll be skipping it in the sequel. They should be zoning in on that stuff. Hopefully.

But these shared universes ARE like television now. That's how they treat it and i dont really blame them because Marvel has like 30 movies to tell their stories. DC will be cutting that in half but it's still the same approach. They have all the time in the world to tell their story. It's not the same as a Nolan movie, where he wants to put it all into one movie. You now have movies that serve to set up further films. The last Hunger Games was good but it was the same thing.

 

[Green Goblin]

Iron Man 2 IMO is the best example of being a movie that is more concerned with future films than with what is happening now.