The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - Part 152

[The Joker]

Rises doesn't have a bad reputation, it's just generally seen as a step down after TDK (which it was), but it's not seen as a bad movie by the consensus. Don't let a loud minority fool you into believing that. The stats of the movie just don't back that up. Even I have to admit that, and I think it's the weakest of the trilogy by some margin.

The Dark Knight is of course the best and most popular of the trilogy. It's one of the few comic book movies I've seen where it's status seems to grow rather than level off or dwindle as time goes on. For example 6 years ago Empire did a public vote with thousands of readers and a bunch of movie critics and Hollywood directors and elite for the 500 greatest movies of all time, and TDK came in at #15. This year they did another one and TDK came in at #3 this time.

Even Hollywood had it listed as one of their top 100 favorite movies of all time earlier this year: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/list/100-greatest-films-all-time-713215

The only CBM to make their list, too. And it doesn't just make best or favorite movie lists, but it wins out in polls like best movie sequel, too: http://news.moviefone.com/2013/08/27/the-dark-knight-voted-best-sequel/

It's just one of those movies where lightning was caught in a bottle. The perfect cocktail of drama, action, suspense, and the comic book absurd. TDKR on the other hand just has a loud minority of detractors. The movie deserves a lot of the criticisms it gets, but when people are calling it garbage or worst movie ever, this is not the opinions of the majority. Not even close.

The TDK trilogy is by far the most popular and respected in the CBM genre. I mean when you have the likes of Steven Speilberg calling them beautiful art films, then you know they have transcended the genre they're in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69N56plrDE&t=4m42s

 

[Killer]

Yeah, you´re right. But since the consensus, at least on the internet, is that TDK is the best, i find it a little bit weird that basically everyone i know thinks TDKR is the best of the trilogy. A couple of days ago i even asked a girl to watch the trilogy and she wasn´t too impressed with the first two but told me that she loved Rises. And this has been the story with everyone i know. They´re not CB fans, so i don´t know if that might have something to do with it.

 

[Ryan]

Could very well be a case of most people have friends with similar opinions. Everyone I know liked the Dark Knight the best, primarily because of the Joker.

 

[BatLobster]

Most of my friends are fans of the trilogy as a whole, but there is some disagreement amongst us on which is the best. I butt heads with two of my friends on Rises.

I definitely think the backlash spun out of control into this preposterously exaggerated thing on the internet. Can't say I didn't see it coming though.

This isn't the most in-depth article but I appreciate the sentiment:

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-dark-knight-rises/241175/in-defense-of-the-dark-knight-rises

 

[Tequilla]

All this talk about a potential Nolan/Bale flick down the line makes me hope it dosen't happen.

I can't recall a time where a film franchise's creative team waited 15+ years to do another installment, and that installment was actually good.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?

Did you purposely missed the masterpiece

Easy Rider - The Ride Back ?

 

[BH/HHH]

Most of my friends are fans of the trilogy as a whole, but there is some disagreement amongst us on which is the best. I butt heads with two of my friends on Rises.

I definitely think the backlash spun out of control into this preposterously exaggerated thing on the internet. Can't say I didn't see it coming though.

This isn't the most in-depth article but I appreciate the sentiment:

http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-dark-knight-rises/241175/in-defense-of-the-dark-knight-rises

Age of the internet, everyone is a critic. Its exactly why films are so dissected nowadays.

 

[Killer]

The problem is: They´re really not that well dissected.

 

[shauner111]

The fact that Bale just stared into nothing for a good half-hour after hearing disappointing news...

That's soooo Bruce Wayne of him.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I wonder if it was because he was ''replaced'' so quick, or because HE felt he had more to say about the character.

 

[shauner111]

I think it was just fast. 1 year after TDKR. 6 months or so after it was out on the shelves fresh on blu-ray. The reality just hit him i guess.

He was always down for returning if Chris was game. Bale felt like there was so much more you can tell with the character, in general. So i'd imagine he felt there could be more to tell but that was up to Nolan.

There's no way Bale would have done the job for Zack, if Chris was against the idea. That would make things uncomfortable and Christian's obviously loyal. You sign to one of these movies, you have to sign to at least 2 more. So it just wasn't in the cards.

It still makes me feel good that Christian would probably jump at the chance to play Mr. Wayne, anytime in the future if Chris says 'let's do it'. Bale is the only actor who loved playing the character to the point where he would return immediately after making a new one. Keaton didn't care for his experience on his sequel. Hates talking about Batman. Of course now he's 60 and feeling a little nostalgic about the first one, but he dodged Batman for 20 years.

 

[kvz5]

The fact that Bale just stared into nothing for a good half-hour after hearing disappointing news...

That's soooo Bruce Wayne of him.

I can't remember where I read it but apparently he was reduced to being like that for hours (or days?) when Heath died.

 

[shauner111]

Some have said that Bruce walks the ice in Rises in order to get back in the city. I wasn't sure if that was the case or not, but it was pretty obvious that Bruce has a skill-set that allows him to be a ninja and/or smuggle himself across boarders. I always went by that, which is shown to us in Begins. But i just remembered something else. Wayne Manor. It's on the outskirts of Gotham. But doesn't the batcave lead to old tunnels that connect it from one city to the next? They used to use the tunnels to smuggle slaves. Bingo.

Bruce obviously hints to Selina that he has a way to get out of the city, which he obviously tells her off screen. Wayne Manor and the batcave is the key to everything.

Some say he left the Batwing at the beach area. Some say in the water long before the bomb goes off. Some say it was before the bridge, where he jumped into a second "Bat" (which i don't believe). Whatever the case may be, he got out closest to where Wayne Manor is located. Exited the city with some preperation from hours/days beforehand. Selina was already told about the tunnels, just like Blake is given access to the cave, where he will figure out how he truly escaped. Did Bruce wait for Selina to show up at Wayne Manor and surprise her? Maybe. Or maybe he just met her later. But this is how i see it now.

 

[B:TAS]

Some have said that Bruce walks the ice in Rises in order to get back in the city. I wasn't sure if that was the case or not, but it was pretty obvious that Bruce has a skill-set that allows him to be a ninja and/or smuggle himself across boarders. I always went by that, which is shown to us in Begins. But i just remembered something else. Wayne Manor. It's on the outskirts of Gotham. But doesn't the batcave lead to old tunnels that connect it from one city to the next? They used to use the tunnels to smuggle slaves. Bingo.

Bruce obviously hints to Selina that he has a way to get out of the city, which he obviously tells her off screen. Wayne Manor and the batcave is the key to everything.

Some say he left the Batwing at the beach area. Some say in the water long before the bomb goes off. Some say it was before the bridge, where he jumped into a second "Bat" (which i don't believe). Whatever the case may be, he got out closest to where Wayne Manor is located. Exited the city with some preperation from hours/days beforehand. Selina was already told about the tunnels, just like Blake is given access to the cave, where he will figure out how he truly escaped. Did Bruce wait for Selina to show up at Wayne Manor and surprise her? Maybe. Or maybe he just met her later. But this is how i see it now.

Agreed. I always thought complaining about bruce getting back into the city was dumb. If run of the mill spec ops guys can smuggle their way in, i think the batman (who was trained by ninjas) can.

 

[Killer]

Agreed. I always thought complaining about bruce getting back into the city was dumb. If run of the mill spec ops guys can smuggle their way in, i think the batman (who was trained by ninjas) can.

Most complains about the movie aren´t really as smart as some people like to believe. Some of them are pure and useless nitpicking that can easily be applied to any other movie, while others are just lack of attention combined with an intense desire of trashing a movie and looking smarter than the man who made it. "Ah, ah, i got ya, Nolan!". The man is smarter than his audience. That´s the problem.

 

[Enlil]

I find that intersting new article /interview with the writer Christopher PRIEST, famour author of The Prestige.

The interview is very mych focuses on Nolan's filmography. And the fact is, Priest DOES NOT LIKE AT ALL The Dark Knight Trilogy and Nolan's blockbuster

Take a look : http://skript.fr/cinema/interview/1505-christopher-priest-auteur-du-prestige-nous-parle-de-christopher-nolan

The article is in french, but the interview in English

 

[shauner111]

What a moron. "It's wrong to give a superhero psychological realism".

Idiot.

 

[The Joker]

I find that intersting new article /interview with the writer Christopher PRIEST, famour author of The Prestige.

The interview is very mych focuses on Nolan's filmography. And the fact is, Priest DOES NOT LIKE AT ALL The Dark Knight Trilogy and Nolan's blockbuster

Take a look : http://skript.fr/cinema/interview/1505-christopher-priest-auteur-du-prestige-nous-parle-de-christopher-nolan

The article is in french, but the interview in English

He lost his credibility when he said Nolan was wrong to apply psychological realism to Batman, that there is no psychological realism to Batman. That he's just a body builder who jumps off buildings.

This guy has no clue about Batman.

 

[shauner111]

What a ******. Not only that Joker, but he says he's been to the theater and it's all kids that are talking through the movie, going to the toilet, and that they dont understand what he's going for. Hilarious. Maybe he should read reviews, watch reviews, look at the Academy, and perhaps pay more attention to what's written in the source material and what the fans think about Batman.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I don't agree with him about the Batman films, but his point about Nolan being more of a modern Hitchcock than a modern Kubrick wasn't far off the mark.

 

[Victarion]

He lost his credibility when he said Nolan was wrong to apply psychological realism to Batman, that there is no psychological realism to Batman. That he's just a body builder who jumps off buildings.

This guy has no clue about Batman.

That's a pretty narrow-minded view. Its that sort of opinion that fills the comic genre with the same old dross. Rises is actually a step-up, as it manages to expand the overall scope, while maintaining a tighter focus on the characters. Usually, you get one at the expense of the other. I am not saying that the movie is flawless, its about on a level with Knight when it comes to those, but the use of a social revolution is, well, revolutionary when you consider that aside from the actual character of the Joker, Knight uses the same kind of villain tropes you'd expect from a comic film: psychos, thugs, mobsters.

 

[shauner111]

It sounds like he knows nothing about Batman and just thinks everything Nolan did in Begins for instance was his creation. That he's only a bodybuilder and superhero in the comics and other mediums, so Nolan just came in and added some psychological depth to Batman when it wasn't needed. Which is obviously not the case. He just doesn't know **** about the character. And even if Nolan DID come out of nowhere with all this stuff, why is that wrong? That's why this jabroni isn't a filmmaker. The filmmaker can take his writing and interpret it his own way.

Such a narrow-mind overall.

 

[I Am The Knight]

How about that.

 

[BatLobster]

If it was such a wrongheaded move on Nolan's part, then explain why again those movies became such a phenomenon and made Nolan's career into what it is today?

Even Burton wanted "psychological realism" for Batman, which he talked about repeatedly. So basically using Priest's logic, the Schumacher films were the only good Batman films.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and it's fine if he just wants lighter superhero movies he can take his kids to or thinks Nolan should've stuck to making smaller films. But the proof is in the pudding with TDK Trilogy- it would've failed if it wasn't what the audience was craving at the time. The success of a new Batman movie was not guaranteed after B&R. The new version needed to distinguish itself from what came before, and it also helped that it was something fresh for the genre overall. Sony's Spider-Man franchise was reigning supreme, and Begins came along and offered an alternative.

Nolan was far from the first to take Batman seriously as a piece of modern mythology. Priest is obviously not familiar at all with the source material.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

That guy sounds like an ***hole.

He's entitled to his opinion, but he doesn't have to be so snarky about it. All this shows is that he simply doesn't get the character of Batman. Thank God Nolan did.

 

[shauner111]

Imagine if Warner Brothers was run by this guy, or a dude like that? Scary thought.