The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - Part 154

[The Batman]

- Bruce was a liar (he lied twice about the autopilot...that's why I prefer Superman, at least he does not lie)

Tell that to Lois Lane....have you even watched Superman 2? The moment Lois accused him of being Superman, he became a liar when he denied it.

Hell, he tripped, his hand landed in a lit fireplace, and when Lois saw that it had no effect on him, his first instinct was to find some way to lie about it.

Not to mention that even if Bruce lied about the autopilot, he still let those closest to him know he was still alive.

 

[Decepticonus]

It wasn't a radiation bomb, was it?

I'm going with no because there was no Hulk out scene.

 

[AnneFan]

-Bane and Talia's deaths were ridiculous

I'll give you Talia's death scene. However I thought Marion's acting for the rest of the movie was fine. Bane's death is a love it or hate it thing. I love it because my favourite got to kill the bad guy. And looked amazing doing so.

Classic Anne.

- Batman surviving after the radiation bomb was forced (when there were only five seconds for it to explode and I do not think he used the autopilot because without his command, how does The Bat would drop the bomb in the right place? )

I think Batman covered his ejection from The Bat with that explosion when the kids says "that's Batman!". The Bat wouldn't have to drop the bomb at all. It would've carried it out to the ocean, still attached. I never understood why people assumed Batman was in The Bat and survived a nuclear explosion with just five seconds left, swimming to shore or something ridiculous. It's Nolan's way of making the audience think the hero has died.

As for the other areas, The Joker and others have handles themselves well as usual.

 

[Ryan]

The Bat is one of my favourite vehicle designs in all of the Batman movies. It's the most important vehicle in TDK Trilogy, too. Taking the bomb away from Gotham. At least it wasn't shot down with one bullet by the Joker, lol. The Bat went out in style.

Also love how Batman uses the Bat to draw a missile into the path of the Tumbler convoy. Good driving.

Glad you liked it. I didn't. I loved the sheer power of the tumbler and the line that followed "I gotta get me one of those". I liked the stealth of the batpod and the way it was introduced as well. The bat fell flat for me. Its probably my least favourite design from the entire trilogy with the batcave in tdkr following a close second. Thought everything else was fairly brilliant.

 

[Decepticonus]

Glad you liked it. I didn't. I loved the sheer power of the tumbler and the line that followed "I gotta get me one of those". I liked the stealth of the batpod and the way it was introduced as well. The bat fell flat for me. Its probably my least favourite design from the entire trilogy with the batcave in tdkr following a close second. Thought everything else was fairly brilliant.

I liked the minimalist design of the cave in tdkr. The waterfall, the computer, the suit rising up in that platform from the water. In the end, does Bruce need all that usual **** in the cave like a t-rex?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I hated the "I gotta get me one of those" Goyerisms in Begins. I preferred the cop getting his cap blown off in Rises better. Same general idea, no terrible line.

 

[Ryan]

To each their own. I loved the line and still do to this day. I hated the "you might have the wrong animal there sir". Not sure where you got the idea that I thought a t rex should be in the cave...lol..or that it needed all the usual ****. I was simply underwhelmed by it and really disliked the plexiglass containers as opposed to the cage and armoire.

 

[Decepticonus]

To each their own. I loved the line and still do to this day. I hated the "you might have the wrong animal there sir". Not sure where you got the idea that I thought a t rex should be in the cave...lol..or that it needed all the usual ****. I was simply underwhelmed by it and really disliked the plexiglass containers as opposed to the cage and armoire.

Oh no I'm not saying it needed all that **** either. But yeah the design from Begins was fine and so is Burton's where it's just this labyrinth and a few things in random places. Whereas now a days in the comics it looks too clean, too nice, too neat. You could put it up the rent and people be like "hey this ain't bad".

 

[ThePhantasm]

I think Batman covered his ejection from The Bat with that explosion when the kids says "that's Batman!". The Bat wouldn't have to drop the bomb at all. It would've carried it out to the ocean, still attached. I never understood why people assumed Batman was in The Bat and survived a nuclear explosion with just five seconds left, swimming to shore or something ridiculous. It's Nolan's way of making the audience think the hero has died.

Because it shows him piloting the Bat while the Bat is over the water.

I'd prefer the "he ejects in the explosion when the kids says 'that's Batman!'" idea but that's blatantly not what's shown.

Granted, I don't think he ejected with 5 seconds left... Nolan was playing around with the screentime... but its not hard to see how people are confused by it.

 

[ThePhantasm]

-Bane and Talia's deaths were ridiculous

Agreed.

- Batman surviving after the radiation bomb was forced (when there were only five seconds for it to explode and I do not think he used the autopilot because without his command, how does The Bat would drop the bomb in the right place? )

I wouldn't say forced, but definitely poorly edited.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I loved the line and still do to this day. I hated the "you might have the wrong animal there sir".

Foley compared his cops cornering Batman to a rat trapped in a maze. The line made sense as a retort.

Gordon's line is stupid, out of character and cheesy.

 

[I Am The Knight]

How is it out of character?

 

[Ryan]

Oh no I'm not saying it needed all that **** either. But yeah the design from Begins was fine and so is Burton's where it's just this labyrinth and a few things in random places. Whereas now a days in the comics it looks too clean, too nice, too neat. You could put it up the rent and people be like "hey this ain't bad".

Agreed. Most of the designs seemed to speak to me but the bat and cave just didn't and I couldn't really tell you how it should have been improved. To be honest, I've never liked the idea of Batman flying around the city anyways. That being said, I do like the look of the plane in bvs.

 

[Decepticonus]

I wouldn't say forced, but definitely poorly edited.

This kinda editing is very common, you know like Dick jumping through the house to reach the door that apparently takes over a whole minute to close in Forever.

 

[Ryan]

Foley compared his cops cornering Batman to a rat trapped in a maze. The line made sense as a retort.

Gordon's line is stupid, out of character and cheesy.

That's great you feel that way. Its simply not the perspective I share.

 

[AnneFan]

Because it shows him piloting the Bat while the Bat is over the water.

I'd prefer the "he ejects in the explosion when the kids says 'that's Batman!'" idea but that's blatantly not what's shown.

We don't see that. We only see one closeup of Batman with any background context, and there's buildings in the background. We don't see him in the vehicle with water below or around him. The last closeup of Batman's face is just that. Nolan edited things to make viewers think he was piloting the Bat. In my opinion, everything after the building explosion is the Bat on autopilot.

 

[Ryan]

I don't have my screenplay book handy but didn't Batman swerve and lose control of the batpod in tdk. I didn't think it was because of one of the joker's bullets.

 

[shauner111]

We don't see that. We only see one closeup of Batman with any background context, and there's buildings in the background. We don't see him in the vehicle with water below or around him. The last closeup of Batman's face is just that. Nolan edited things to make viewers think he was piloting the Bat. In my opinion, everything after the building explosion is the Bat on autopilot.

This, fo sho.

 

[ThePhantasm]

We don't see that. We only see one closeup of Batman with any background context, and there's buildings in the background. We don't see him in the vehicle with water below or around him. The last closeup of Batman's face is just that. Nolan edited things to make viewers think he was piloting the Bat. In my opinion, everything after the building explosion is the Bat on autopilot.

Without any background context? He's clearly in the Bat. The pilot's seat is behind him. You can see light moving through the cockpit on his face. There's not buildings in the background. What are you talking about?

 

[AnneFan]

At 1.44 there's a closeup of Batman in the Bat. We see buildings in the background. That is the only time we ever get context of where he is. With the 2.09 closeup he's clearly sitting in the Bat, yes. But we have no idea where he's situated. We have no idea if he's over the ocean or not. We're led to believe that though. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[ThePhantasm]

But it occurs between two cuts of the bat flying over the ocean. So again, the editing is either sloppy or deliberately a cheat, which was my only point.

 

[AnneFan]

Deliberately a cheat. Leading the audience up the garden path. Otherwise the whole reveal at the cafe wouldn't have had the same effectiveness.

 

[ThePhantasm]

It was definitely effective. When I saw the film for the first time in theaters, there was an elderly couple in the row in front of me... and the old man was crying when he thought Batman died, and then cheered up like a little kid when he showed up at the cafe. It was a little awkward, but I guess I'm glad the guy was really into the movie?

The problem is its only effective the first handful of times, and after the surprise has worn off its kinda bland. The ending to TDK is far more emotional, IMO. That ending never fails to deeply affect me. Its because TDK earns the emotion in the buildup of the preceding scenes, rather than attempting to force the emotion by misleading the audience.

 

[BatLobster]

It's definitely misdirection, but on subsequent viewings I just read it differently. The first time I watched it, the closeup of Batman was saying "Welp...this will be a good death."

On subsequent viewings it becomes, "I've done enough now. Time to finally give life a try." That's the cool thing about the way Bale plays it, his facial expression can read as either of those things. He's at the end of a road one way or the other.

I mean, knowing twists in movies doesn't always make them lose their effectiveness. Vader telling Luke he's his father still gets me. And I still get really happy seeing Bruce in the cafe at the end. Not because it's a surprise (let's face it, it wasn't the hugest surprise even on first viewing), because it's a darn well-deserved ending for that character.

TDK ending is boss too of course. Classic ending. I put it right up there with the ending of T2 as far as emotional endings to an action film. TDKR's ending is more bittersweet for me and makes me reflect on the trilogy as a whole as it's the ending of 3 movies, not just one.

 

[shauner111]

Without any background context? He's clearly in the Bat. The pilot's seat is behind him. You can see light moving through the cockpit on his face. There's not buildings in the background. What are you talking about?

He's in the Bat, but when is the question. That's the point. It's just an editing trick. Is it light or shadows from a building? He obviously left the Bat when the building blew up or just after the bridge right next to that shot of the beach.

You dont know if there's buildings in the backround or not. You can't say that for sure. But i believe it's the shadow of a building. I didn't believe that a couple years back but now i do.

Obviously it's deliberate and a cheat. It's not sloppy editing. I think the whole auto-pilot part of it should make us think "Ohhh ok, the whole time Blake is looking at the Bat, it's on auto-pilot". He or somebody else would see a body drop into the water at some point. Their eyes were on the Bat for a long time. I doubt their eyes even shifted.

It was definitely effective. When I saw the film for the first time in theaters, there was an elderly couple in the row in front of me... and the old man was crying when he thought Batman died, and then cheered up like a little kid when he showed up at the cafe. It was a little awkward, but I guess I'm glad the guy was really into the movie?

The problem is its only effective the first handful of times, and after the surprise has worn off its kinda bland. The ending to TDK is far more emotional, IMO. That ending never fails to deeply affect me. Its because TDK earns the emotion in the buildup of the preceding scenes, rather than attempting to force the emotion by misleading the audience.

Sounds like he's a lifelong Batman fan. Not that awkward. I've seen/heard people cry in the last few Nolan movies. And it's always the end of the movie.

I disagree that it wears off. I can probably watch the end to Rises on its own for another 60 years and still get emotional, still get goosebumps. To each their own.

The end of Rises wasn't just a gimmick. That's what Nolan wanted to do for the character. In any medium, a happy ending is well deserved for Bruce Wayne. Some versions more than others. I thought this version deserved a happy ending more than Miller's or Burton's. It's not about the twist for me. Maybe it was for the first time. But i know the ending very well right now, and it probably means more to me personally than it did the first few times. I bet it means even more as i get older. Some people prefer a bleak ending for the guy, but no matter what our opinion is, i think every Bat-fan can agree that Bruce deserves a happy ending. Whether he gets it or not. Sometimes the execution isn't a fans cup of tea. That's fine. But Bale's Bruce deserved it.