The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[BatLobster]

Rewatching bits of the trilogy. It’s interesting how Begins and Rises look like glossy, “modern” movies. But TDK looks like a film from the 70’s. The whole movie has this faded, old look. It was deliberate, I’m sure. But film one and three looks so much more pleasing on TV.

Just curious, how you watching? Streaming, physical media?

I ask mainly because the version of TDK on HBO Max is still the old Blu-ray transfer, which was bad because it was based on the IMAX print so all the 35mm footage is blown up and the colors are off. The newer 4k transfer is a lot better and more pleasing to look at IMO.

That said, def agree that BB and Rises have some grand visuals and more of a polished look to them.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Apple TV. Which has the highest bit rate of the streaming platforms. And I’m sure they have the new transfer.

 

[Herofan]

I actually was just re-listening to that TDKR chapter based on this conversation, and I think he does talk about it a decent amount. He says he feels that it's very subversive film and he's surprised what they were able to get away with, with leaning into class tension and depicting kangaroo courts and all of that. It's pretty damn frightening if you think about it. Like the movie flat out depicts a fascist leader rising to power in a modern day American city.

There's not much sense about how regular people including the poor do feel about Bane and his system.

 

[BatLobster]

Apple TV. Which has the highest bit rate of the streaming platforms. And I’m sure they have the new transfer.

Ah okay, nice. It's weird to me that HBO Max doesn't.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

The service needs a lot of work. They have an amazing catalogue. But their 4K hdr offers are lacking. Both in titles and bit rate. Compare hbo max Dune and Apple TV dune. The difference is massive.

 

[shauner111]

I didn’t want to see Nolan's cringy extras delivering lines about Bane's takeover thank you very much lol. In that sense I'm glad Rises avoided all of that nonsense. A dictator has shut down the city and ppl are in their homes. Why do I need to hear from these people in order to understand how they're feeling or to see how it's affecting citizens? Especially now with real lockdowns, I know how it feels lol. Just let the movie get on with the story.

I wish TDK pulled a Rises and didn't have a load of extras with no acting ability shouting in scenes about what's going on in the plot. It's distracting. At least Rises got away from that.

 

[The Joker]

I didn’t want to see Nolan's cringy extras delivering lines about Bane's takeover thank you very much lol. In that sense I'm glad Rises avoided all of that nonsense. A dictator has shut down the city and ppl are in their homes. Why do I need to hear from these people in order to understand how they're feeling or to see how it's affecting citizens? Especially now with real lockdowns, I know how it feels lol. Just let the movie get on with the story.

I wish TDK pulled a Rises and didn't have a load of extras with no acting ability shouting in scenes about what's going on in the plot. It's distracting. At least Rises got away from that.

I don't agree with any of this. We were not in real lockdowns in 2012. Even if we were why should a movie shy away from showing how something that big affects the people its aimed at just because you personally know what it feels like? Most would argue its a good thing because it makes it relatable.

Giving the citizens of Gotham a voice, seeing their reactions to what's going on gives the city a personality and gives it feeling of authenticity to the chaos Joker and Ra's inflicted on Gotham in the first two movies. When a villain's plan involves attacking the people of a city, and trying to mess with them, getting to see that effect makes it so much better.

Bane's plan was much bigger and more devastating on paper than the previous movies, but the antics of Ra's in BB and especially Joker in TDK felt more real and impactful because you saw how it affected the people of Gotham as well as the main characters.

It didn't detract from the story, it added to it. I'm glad they did it. Its something Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies did, too. Showing how New York's people felt about Spider-Man. Gave NY a personality rather than just being a playground for the main characters to be in.

 

[shauner111]

I don't agree with any of this. We were not in real lockdowns in 2012. Even if we were why should a movie shy away from showing how something that big affects the people its aimed at just because you personally know what it feels like? Most would argue its a good thing because it makes it relatable.

Giving the citizens of Gotham a voice, seeing their reactions to what's going on gives the city a personality and gives it feeling of authenticity to the chaos Joker and Ra's inflicted on Gotham in the first two movies. When a villain's plan involves attacking the people of a city, and trying to mess with them, getting to see that effect makes it so much better.

Bane's plan was much bigger and more devastating on paper than the previous movies, but the antics of Ra's in BB and especially Joker in TDK felt more real and impactful because you saw how it affected the people of Gotham as well as the main characters.

It didn't detract from the story, it added to it. I'm glad they did it. Its something Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies did, too. Showing how New York's people felt about Spider-Man. Gave NY a personality rather than just being a playground for the main characters to be in.

You think it made it feel more real in TDK when bad actors hammed up their reactions? Well, to each their own then because all of those scenes were good on paper but Nolan made it look like a soap opera instead. I'll pass. Nolan doesn't know how to do it so it's better to just skip it. The ferry scene in TDK is a great example of that. It's hilariously bad. It doesn't feel real at all.

Also it's not 2012 anymore. It's 2022 and so what I feel about the world and the film now is what matters. I personally don't need to see ppl reacting in order to understand what it means for the city. And make no mistake, in the montages you do see citizens reacting. It's there. They're just not shouting dumb lines in the form of exposition. Raimi did it well, Nolan did not.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Just curious, how you watching? Streaming, physical media?

I ask mainly because the version of TDK on HBO Max is still the old Blu-ray transfer, which was bad because it was based on the IMAX print so all the 35mm footage is blown up and the colors are off. The newer 4k transfer is a lot better and more pleasing to look at IMO.

That said, def agree that BB and Rises have some grand visuals and more of a polished look to them.

I've got the 4k versions, which is the only ones I'll watch from now on. Each film looks damn glorious, and are easily some of the best 4ks in existence. Heck, pretty much all of Nolans filmography are some of the best I've seen in that format honestly. I still gotta get The Prestige.

 

[The Joker]

You think it made it feel more real in TDK when bad actors hammed up their reactions? Well, to each their own then because all of those scenes were good on paper but Nolan made it look like a soap opera instead. I'll pass. Nolan doesn't know how to do it so it's better to just skip it. The ferry scene in TDK is a great example of that. It's hilariously bad. It doesn't feel real at all.

Also it's not 2012 anymore. It's 2022 and so what I feel about the world and the film now is what matters. I personally don't need to see ppl reacting in order to understand what it means for the city. And make no mistake, in the montages you do see citizens reacting. It's there. They're just not shouting dumb lines in the form of exposition. Raimi did it well, Nolan did not.

But I don't think the actors were bad. None of the actors in the Ferry scene were bad. Hilariously or otherwise. If they were as bad as you claim the movie would have been slammed for it. The Cop in armored car with Gordon is what I consider an example of a bad extra. But he was not an example of someone who was there to be a voice for Gotham's people, he was supposed to be funny but he was just annoying. The actors in the Ferry scenes they all did fine. It felt real to me. The panic, the fear, the shouting, the despair. I loved it all. It was great.

2012 or 2022 I don't see why it matters because you understand what it means or feels like. For example most people have lost a loved one, but that doesn't mean movies should stop showing how grief affects characters just because we know what it feels like. If movies stopped doing things that audiences could relate to, then the movie industry would come to a grinding halt.

 

[shauner111]

LOL come on they’re bad actors “WE SHOULD PUT IT TO A VOTE!” lmao awful acting. People have been slamming those scenes since 2008.

 

[The Joker]

LOL come on they’re bad actors “WE SHOULD PUT IT TO A VOTE!” lmao awful acting. People have been slamming those scenes since 2008.

I don't think they were bad. The guy you quoted didn't even shout "Lets put it to a vote". He just said it in a normal tone. There was no exaggeration. It was completely authentic. I don't consider a handful of fanboys on a forum as representative of a critical consensus either. If I did then TDKR would be regarded as one of the worst CBM's.

 

[BatLobster]

There's some hammy acting throughout the trilogy, not just random Gotham civilians. Check out Joker's goons in the TDK prologue. Commissioner Loeb, Flass, Maroni, etc. The extras, as goofy as some are, don't feel like they're disconnected from the universe to me. I mean sure, if you wanna say it's bad or ruins the movie somehow, okay that's your prerogative, but I think people have been missing for years that the trilogy has a kind of pulpy quality to it. In a way that's enjoyable to me. The idea that it was this one-note ultra grimdark thing got blown out of proportion.

Still love the ferries sequence, always have. It made you as a viewer question what you'd do in that situation and I absolutely love the idea that Batman places his faith in people.

 

[shauner111]

I don't think they were bad. The guy you quoted didn't even shout "Lets put it to a vote". He just said it in a normal tone. There was no exaggeration. It was completely authentic. I don't consider a handful of fanboys on a forum as representative of a critical consensus either. If I did then TDKR would be regarded as one of the worst CBM's.

If you think that delivery was authentic then I can’t trust your judgement with acting lol.

And I’m not talking about comic book forums.

 

[shauner111]

There's some hammy acting throughout the trilogy, not just random Gotham civilians. Check out Joker's goons in the TDK prologue. Commissioner Loeb, Flass, Maroni, etc. The extras, as goofy as some are, don't feel like they're disconnected from the universe to me. I mean sure, if you wanna say it's bad or ruins the movie somehow, okay that's your prerogative, but I think people have been missing for years that the trilogy has a kind of pulpy quality to it. In a way that's enjoyable to me. The idea that it was this one-note ultra grimdark thing got blown out of proportion.

Still love the ferries sequence, always have. It made you as a viewer question what you'd do in that situation and I absolutely love the idea that Batman places his faith in people.

Theres goofy acting all throughout TDK trilogy exactly. But some ppl latch onto TDK as if it’s such a realistic crime drama. It’s funny to me. The movie is dope. But let’s not put our blinders on.

 

[The Joker]

If you think that delivery was authentic then I can’t trust your judgement with acting lol.

And I’m not talking about comic book forums.

No offense, shauner, but we've rarely agreed on anything in the past have we, so to be dismissive of my judgement on anything now is not really a loss is it.

Then where are you talking about? I'm looking through the critical reviews and not seeing it.

 

[BatLobster]

Theres goofy acting all throughout TDK trilogy exactly. But some ppl latch onto TDK as if it’s such a realistic crime drama. It’s funny to me. The movie is dope. But let’s not put our blinders on.

It goes both ways too though. You always have had people who slam the movie for being too dark and taking itself seriously.

TDK is an interesting mix. There are elements in the first act that do feel like they could be ripped from The Wire, how they're tracking the mob's money and getting into the nitty gritty with some of that stuff. That in and of itself just felt very different than any comic book film to date at the time and it lent a credibility to how Gordon/Batman/Dent are really going about trying to root out organized crime in a way that felt plausible. But then of course as it goes on it 'escalates' which is kind of what the whole premise of the movie was. I just think the trilogy had a really balanced tone that was enjoyable, but clearly still miles away from some of the camp of the previous films. I mean even Heat, which it's taking inspiration from, has some over the top elements/acting and has that kind of heightened/operatic feeling. And personally I love that stuff. I think it just worked so well to blend that kind of crime thriller with a superhero movie.

And let's not forget, for as big as the movie goes in the 3rd act, arguably the most iconic and memorable sequence of the whole film is essentially two characters in a room talking. So to me it's just this satisfying balance of grounded and 'big'.

 

[Filmfreak]

The ferries scene worked really well for me too and I don't remember this particular part of the film being slammed by audience or critics, either, honestly.

 

[Ryan]

I''ll be honest. When I first read the spoilers that the grand finale was going to be 2 ferries threatening to blow each other up I thought it was the most laughable/boring climax a film could ever have and figured it must have been fake.
After watching the movie however, I was proved otherwise.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah, The ferries scene had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. It culminates in that moment where the man picks up the detonator and Zimmer score reaches levels of tension that I thought would break speakers. I remember watching it and being like "my heart can't take much more".

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, The ferries scene had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. It culminates in that moment where the man picks up the detonator and Zimmer score reaches levels of tension that I thought would break speakers. I remember watching it and being like "my heart can't take much more".

Oh dude yeah. Everything really comes to a head in that moment, maximum tension. Of course, it's got a ticking clock driving it. TDK was the start of where I literally felt exhausted after walking out of every Nolan film. But in a good way!

 

[Brother Jack]

TDK is an exhausting movie. It's why for as great as it is I don't think it has as much rewatchability as the other two, especially Rises. I kind of have to be in the right state to sit down and watch it all the way through. From the first frame it grabs you by the throat and does not really let go until the emotional catharsis of Batman saying "I killed those people" and riding off into the night. Rises is a different animal. The slower, quieter exploration in the first half of a Bruce and Gotham that are post-Batman juxtaposed to the apocalyptic second half. I can slip into Bruce's emotional journey more easily with that film. It's a comfort movie for me.

 

[Gothamsknight]

TDK is the perfect definition of a rollercoaster. You're on the edge of your seat for the entire film and just when you think you can relax, The Joker shows up again or something unexpected happens. One bit of this that I think works best as an example is when Joker crashes the party. The bit where Harvey is trying to convince Rachel, and Bruce puts him to sleep to keep him safe. From the commissioner being poisoned to the Judge being blown up with Joker cards raining down on the fiery wreckage, you got that intense tension filled buildup along with this nail biting score. Particularly at 3:55

 

[OnLeatherWings]

What left a sour taste in my mouth with this film is that it eliminates any chance of imagination beyond the films themselves.

We can't speculate if Batman faced off against any other rogues in between The Dark Knight and Rises. Why? Well, Nolan had to make it so the last time we saw Batman 8 years prior was his last night as Batman.

We can't imagine him being Batman after this film because he quit after this film, again.

Having Batman quit for 8 years didn't feel right and it took away the fun of knowing he was active, having other adventures in between the films that helps fill out the lore.

 

[Rick190293]

I understand the issues with the 8-year retirement, it's a very controversial choice by Nolan, but it works for me. Since the beginning this was markted as the final movie in the trilogy, so it makes sense to finish it in a way that evoked Miller's TDKR. Plus, it added some emotional weight different from any other superhero movie I remember.