The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[BatLobster]

I was writing a story that tied the two films together. Maybe I’ll get back into it at some point.

The story begins with us following Batman, seconds after TDK cuts to black (riding off on his batpod into the night). And the story ends with us following Bruce, as he walks out onto the balcony of Wayne Manor (the scene in the beginning of TDKR aka Harvey Dent Day. But from his perspective).

It’s a Bruce Wayne story. With the exception of the “opening scene”, Batman only shows up in his nightmares (since he’s technically retired). When he dreams, he is Batman not Bruce.

The bulk of the story would be following Bruce during the 3 years when he was a recluse, locking himself in Wayne Manor. He’s taking pills for physical pain and mental distress, which brings on these hallucinations in his own home. He’s not sure if his mind is playing tricks on him and this is where we see other characters pop up from the first two films. It’s all about guilt and regret.

There are no “new villains” for him to defeat. Nothing contradicts the 3 films Nolan made. The antagonist is himself.

That's a neat concept! A lot to explore on the psychological side of things there.

Funnily enough, I was also working on an idea for a story wayyy back. Mine went the other way and was exploring the more immediate aftermath of TDK. I didn't get too far with it, but the general idea was that Batman would have to thwart a plot to assassinate the mayor in the leadup to the signing of the Dent Act (perhaps with Deadshot being the hired gun brought in by remnants of the mob to do it). It would be more of a conspiracy thriller in that way. Batman would have to be operating extra-stealthily and on the periphery, probably more Matches Malone-type street stuff to get information too. It could also cover stuff like The Joker's trial and ultimate fate, Gordon facing public pressure to bring in Batman, etc.

The general idea behind it would be basically to get a bit of a taste for Batman having to operate from the shadows as public enemy no. 1, but in the end it would be about seeing the lengths he goes to in order to bring about a situation that ultimately renders him obsolete or at least his mission "complete". It's more just a collection of plot points that I think would be cool than an actual story, but I the main seed of the idea is I thought it would be interesting to see the moment he decides to hang up the cape. Cause it's definitely not a victorious moment, though he tries to convince himself of that. I think there's a lot of ambivalence to explore there and it's the beginning of him really starting to come undone.

Maybe with both of our ideas combined, we'd have something to pitch DC.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

There's some strong story potential in the 8-year interim that doesn't have to contradict Rises in any way.

Absolutely. A lot of the language about what Batman/Bruce was up to was ambiguous - so a lot can be filled in and written about and not feel like a retcon. There's a lot of room for interpretation in that film for headcannon.

This is why, in some ways, Rises (to me) feels a little like a fourth film that was supposed to be made many years after the initial Nolan 'trilogy'.

I really hope a wave of nostalgia for the Nolan series comes about and starts up a comic series or even an animated series (damn, that'd be amazing) of this time period.

 

[Gothamsknight]

In general, I miss the whole Nolan era of Batman. Batman hype was at it's peak, and it felt euphoric. It feels like 100 years ago.

 

[Rick190293]

In general, I miss the whole Nolan era of Batman. Batman hype was at it's peak, and it felt euphoric. It feels like 100 years ago.

Me too. Still my favorite version of Batman, althrough I see potential in Battinson to top it. And if the nostalgia wave continues over the years, it's almost certain that WB will get back to this universe.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Me too. Still my favorite version of Batman, althrough I see potential in Battinson to top it. And if the nostalgia wave continues over the years, it's almost certain that WB will get back to this universe.

It seems WB is terrified of touching the Nolan trilogy right now, but I do think something will happen in the future.

 

[BatLobster]

The blessing and the curse of getting a complete trilogy from one creative team is that it hasn't been exploited, tarnished or milked to death and gets to remain feeling special, but yeah-- I do miss those times very much. Not only the films but also just the pre-MCU, pre-Disney owning everything era of movies.

I sometimes think of the alternate path that could've been, if Bale had returned for BvS, and think man...what a bullet that was dodged there. It would've made all the money, but it really could've cheapened everything.

 

[I Am The Knight]

It seems WB is terrified of touching the Nolan trilogy right now, but I do think something will happen in the future.

I will be happy with them not ever touching it

 

[Gothamsknight]

The blessing and the curse of getting a complete trilogy from one creative team is that it hasn't been exploited, tarnished or milked to death and gets to remain feeling special, but yeah-- I do miss those times very much. Not only the films but also just the pre-MCU, pre-Disney owning everything era of movies.

I sometimes think of the alternate path that could've been, if Bale had returned for BvS, and think man...what a bullet that was dodged there. It would've made all the money, but it really could've cheapened everything.

I remember how raw I thought the first Iron Man felt. I rewatched it the other day and its insane how far removed it feels now from the MCU. and how much better it looked! I really miss that era overall. People like to crap on a lot of the comic book films from that era, but the few truly phenomenal ones are better than anything from today.

 

[The Joker]

I will be happy with them not ever touching it

Same. Unless Nolan himself is directly involved in it then leave it alone.

 

[BatLobster]

I remember how raw I thought the first Iron Man felt. I rewatched it the other day and its insane how far removed it feels now from the MCU. and how much better it looked! I really miss that era overall. People like to crap on a lot of the comic book films from that era, but the few truly phenomenal ones are better than anything from today.

Oh yeah, the original Iron Man is still one of the best MCU movies IMO.

And I agree, the look of the original is great. Shot on film, vibrant, natural looking and colorful. Before much of the MCU had that desaturated, homogenized look.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Same. Unless Nolan himself is directly involved in it then leave it alone.

Yeah, the only way I would get interested in returning to that world would be if Nolan was involved, and there's very little chance that he would ever do that, I think.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Oh yeah, the original Iron Man is still one of the best MCU movies IMO.

And I agree, the look of the original is great. Shot on film, vibrant, natural looking and colorful. Before much of the MCU had that desaturated, homogenized look.

The first Iron Man is great, and felt so fresh at the time. That film and the first Avengers are my favorite MCU films by far.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I think marvel is finally branching out visually. Eternals looked like a movie. And MoM was a delight. Sam Raimi went all out.

 

[Brother Jack]

Multiverse of Madness had some sizable script issues but yeah they let Raimi be Raimi and I was very glad for it. It had more filmmaking panache than most MCU films by a mile.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Multiverse of Madness was AWESOME. I enjoyed the hell out of that movie and how much it oozed Raimis style in every frame.

 

[BatLobster]

Still haven't seen MoM. The word of mouth I've heard has been all over the place, but glad to hear you guys liked it. Wasn't able to see it when it first came out and then Top Gun took priority for me.

I do love me some Raimi though so I'm hoping I'll get to check it out soon.

 

[Gothamsknight]

This movie and it's themes continue to resonate with me to this day. As an adult, I feel connected to it even more and I actually find it really inspirational.

 

[The Joker]

I remember being struck by two things when I came out of seeing Begins back in 2005. The first was how refreshing it was to have a Batman movie that actually focused on Batman and made him the center of the movie. The second was having Jim Gordon be a fully realized character with a significant role in the story.

They were two key things the previous Batman movie franchise had really been lacking on. Begins really was a surprise in that regard.

 

[BatLobster]

Goddamn. 17 years. People who weren't born when Begins came out are driving now.

I think it's somehow both one of the most overrated AND underrated comic book films, if that makes sense. If I had a nickel for every time some fan says, "My extremely hot take but BB>TDK" or "BB is a better BATMAN film" as if they are the if the first to dare to say that, I'd be a millionaire. And no, it's not IMO. TDK is both a better film and a better Batman film, if you ask me. BB succeeds by being the first through and through BRUCE WAYNE film.

But it's a fantastic movie. Exactly what the franchise needed at that point in time. It's all been said about how it started the reboot trend in Hollywood and how much an influence it had. That's obvious at this point. The thing I'll say is what always stood out to me is the movie's commitment to old school filmmaking techniques- miniatures, practical effects, minimal CGI. It was right at the time when CGI was really starting to take over as the dominant force in blockbuster films and it just stood in such stark contrast to that and it feels that way more and more with time. It's a movie that's easy to take for granted because people forget how unprecedented it was on a conceptual level to completely start anew with a franchise that had been so huge, let alone putting it in the hands of an indie filmmaker with a few smaller films under his belt.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Batman Begins was such a different beast to me when it first came out. I was in the midst of the Raimi Spider-Man hype, and Batman Begins was unlike anything I had seen. I was a big fan of the Tim Burton films, and had rewatched them quite a bit on VHS. When that first teaser for Batman Begins dropped, it was almost frightening. If nobody had said it was a Batman teaser, I don't think anybody would have guessed. It was just so effective.



And then the movie comes out, and that end tease with he Joker card made me go crazy. I also remember how blown away I was at Bales Batman, particularly when he snatched flass up and growled "where were the other drugs going?!". It caught me by surprise in the theater, but I was immediately overwhelmed and excited because I knew at that moment that Bales Batman was my new favorite. The raw intensity was just amazing. And now I see the movie as really inspirational, with that shot of Bruce in the cave surrounded by the bats with Zimmer's score building being at the forefront of my mind with personal struggles.

 

[Herofan]

What would have happened at the end of TDK and how might a third film have been like if Harvey had survived his fall?

 

[Gothamsknight]

Straight from the mans mouth. I don't think it'll even happen, but I do potentially see a future, years from now, where Nolan may be open to revisiting the franchise. Who knows, though? As it stands, the trilogy had a perfect ending and I personally don't want to see that being changed. I'd totally be there day 1 if it happened though.

 

[BatLobster]

Straight from the mans mouth. I don't think it'll even happen, but I do potentially see a future, years from now, where Nolan may be open to revisiting the franchise. Who knows, though? As it stands, the trilogy had a perfect ending and I personally don't want to see that being changed. I'd totally be there day 1 if it happened though.

You know it's funny, Keaton used to say the same thing about Burton...but now here we are.

Gotta love the loyalty though. It would be so easy in this day and age to just be like "Hey WB, hire me, I want to be a part of your multiverse!" and just collect a big paycheck.

To be honest, as much as I would be super curious to know what story Nolan would even choose to tell if he returned to that universe, it could be a be careful what you wish for thing. Nolan's movies come with a lot of anticipation and hype and the discourse around them after they get released gets exhausting sometimes. Throw Batman fans into that and...yikes. It was already pretty unbearable by the time Rises came out. A fourth Nolan Batman decades later would be divisive from the start because people would disagree over whether it's the right move to even make it, as the trilogy had a definitive ending. The Matrix Resurrections dealt with this by addressing the elephant in the room and going hard on the meta angle and just turned the whole thing on its head-- obviously that wasn't for everyone. But I think it would have to be some sort of out there, crazy brilliant idea to somehow to justify it. You can't just do another Dark Knight Returns-inspired "Batman has to come out of retirement for one last mission" story.

I feel like it'd have to be some trippy, Inception-type of dream world thing where Bruce is somehow trapped in his own mind, maybe by someone like Hugo Strange. Even that feels a bit Matrix Resurrections though or even too derivative of Inception. I think it would have to be a really big concept to unlock more story possibilities. I'd want it to be as if Nolan combined the idea for his next mind-bending sci-fi blockbuster with a fourth Batman movie, cause otherwise I just don't see how you exceed the scale and scope of TDKR.

Without spoiling anything, I've been listening to David Goyer's Batman: Unburied podcast and it definitely has some of the mind trippy, "what the actual F is going on" vibe to it which definitely makes it engaging for me. I think my feeling is still that if this universe was ever going to continue, I'd rather it be through a comic or novel, a different medium. A peak into "what if?" without risking tainting the trilogy. But obviously, if it ever happened, it would be insane.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It's certainly a tricky situation because on one hand, knowing that there'd be a chance you can see another chapter in one of your favorite trilogies of all time is just a very exciting prospect, but you also don't want the ending to the trilogy to be undone by another film that might not justify it's existence. Then again, I don't think Nolan would ever do something that DIDN'T justify it's existence. All I know is Nolan has been pretty clear on being done with the genre, but you gotta wonder if he's thought about revisiting the character. I mean, he's done 3 movies about the character, and the only sequels he's ever made are Batman sequels. Surely he still has a personal connection to the character, even if he doesn't want to do another.

I think a potential Sam Raimi Spider-Man 4 is more likely than another Nolan Batman flick at this point, but then again, 2 years ago if someone asked me if Tobey would ever return as Spider-Man, I'd say "That would be amazing, but it's a dream that would never happen and has been far too long with too many versions to ever be a realistic possibility."

Gotta learn to never say never.

 

[Brother Jack]

I trust Bale when he says he would only come back for Nolan, and I trust Nolan enough as an artist that he would only come back for the right particular reasons. In other words, I don't think either of these guys would do it again for a paycheck or to appeal to some nostalgic fanboy demand. So if it happened I would be onboard on principle, even if my position now is that I'd rather it didn't happen. But I'd be truly shocked should it come to pass. With Keaton's Batman, and Tobey and Andrew's Spider-men, there was a sense of unfinished business to varying degrees. That's not the case with Bale and Nolan.