The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 156

[OnLeatherWings]

One idea I kept having - what if Bane had put Alfred in The Pit with Bruce. Instead of Tom Conti's character, we have Alfred there.

It'd be a great way to show off Alfred's resourcefulness in helping to heal Bruce physically. And it'd also give them both time to talk and re-bond and give closure.

As it is, I think a scene like in Begins where Alfred picks Bruce up in a jet one last time where Alfred makes peace with Bruce's destiny and they say goodbyes or something like a resolution would've been great.

 

[The Joker]

One idea I kept having - what if Bane had put Alfred in The Pit with Bruce. Instead of Tom Conti's character, we have Alfred there.

It'd be a great way to show off Alfred's resourcefulness in helping to heal Bruce physically. And it'd also give them both time to talk and re-bond and give closure.

As it is, I think a scene like in Begins where Alfred picks Bruce up in a jet one last time where Alfred makes peace with Bruce's destiny and they say goodbyes or something like a resolution would've been great.

That would be cool actually. Then I am imagining Bruce throwing the rope down after he escapes, and Alfred saying something like "How am I supposed to climb up that bloody thing".

 

[BatLobster]

The thing with Aflred being absent for most of the film is I think it really makes the ending hit that much harder. That final moment serves as a fulfillment of Alfred's fantasy, a reconciliation and a goodbye all at once. It's the moment you as the viewer desperately need to see the most before the credits roll. Just too f***ing good.

I agree - it is really gutsy and takes some big swings when it could've likely coasted a bit more on the goodwill of the series. And for the most part, it hits each one, for me.

It really made Bruce a moving protagonist and someone to root for. The jump to get out of the pit is a God-tier scene in comic book history.

It literally gets me every time. It's really a go-to movie for me to feel genuinely uplifted. Like, it actually affected my mood and I went to be bed feeling lighter after I had been feeling a bit stressed about a few things yesterday. And it's not like some nostalgia high, it's truly about the emotional journey and sense of closure the movie brings.

 

[donuts]

I feel like the TDKR is hated discourse is the equivalent to "no one cares about Avatar anymore."

 

[BatLobster]

A few follow-up thoughts after letting my recent rewatch simmer for a few days-

- Bane's "Of Course!" is probably one of my favorite things to quote, but I think the meme of it all overshadows the fact that I believe this a subtle Begins/Ra's callback: "You've attacked Gotham before?" "Of course!". Even Joker has a version of that with: "Harvey Dent never made it home." "Of course not!" Just a fun little motif the trilogy has for the villain having nonchalant cockiness about their plans.

-The fire motif through in all three films is so well done, in both dialogue and imagery. It's that kind of thing that really makes these movies work well as an interconnected thematic trilogy, not just a superhero trilogy.

-One line that stood out to me on this rewatch is when Batman tells Blake, "You've given me an army." I never really questioned it before, but really Batman is the one to free them. Blake only kinda sorta helps with that. I think a deeper reading of that line could be the fact that Blake has been the conduit to the cops through the occupation, sending them notes, updating them on the situation, trying to give them some sort of hope. Maybe the bigger implication there is that by Blake openly working alongside Batman, that's what helps cement the cops' trust in Batman as a 'general' for the final battle. Blake is the bridge.

-I love some of the structural parallels in the setups of TDK and TDKR. In TDK, the mob hires The Joker, unintentionally unleashing him to enact his master plan which involves destroying them. Then in TDKR, the role of the mob shifts to the wealthy elite, and you have Daggett as the one who hires Bane and unleashes him, similarly leading to the fall of the wealthy in the film. In both cases you have people who only care about money and power dealing with larger forces that they don't understand. What's interesting is that the mob is actually more sympathetic. They're at least cornered and trying to survive an existential threat. Daggett is already rich and powerful, and is just after more money and power. I really love how the super rich are just portrayed as unambiguously gross in this film lol. I'm also grateful for the movie giving Ben Mendelsohn mainstream exposure. He's so amazing at playing slimeballs, culminating in his incredible role as Krennic in Star Wars.

-I would argue that the Miranda/Talia reveal barely qualifies as a twist. The movie is aggressively obvious about it to the point that it's not really shocking (especially not for fans), more of an inevitable final revelation for Bruce more than the audience. There's a full-on shot of her onlooking the final battle, looking menacing in her Talia garb before the "twist" actually happens. That's the actual reveal moment IMO, not the stab. I think one fun and underrated aspect of her inclusion in the movie is the clear double-meaning of every single thing she does or says as Tate, basically.

Lastly, appreciate y'all. It's nice to still have a little corner of the internet to chat about these movies with some depth all these years later. It's like, I could go to Reddit and post this sort of stuff, but I feel like it just gets lost in a sea of comments or I'd get drawn into rehashed arguments that I don't really wanna have. In general, it's kind of a hard and weird time to be a human, for so many reasons. These movies in particular have remained a source of comfort and inspiration for me during hard times so I really appreciate having a place to share in that with others, away from the noise.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I don't have a problem with Bruce getting his "happy ending", but I don't think the movie earns it. Gotham spent months being cut off from the rest of the country, being occupied by a terrorist group, with its power and social structures being completely decimated. The movie ends with Gotham being in such a place where they need Batman more then ever. And that is when Bruce chooses to move to Italy with his new hot girlfriend and leave Gotham behind? And just gives the Batman mantle to a young police officer who doesn't have his years of training, and won't have any idea what he's doing?

The more I think about the "end" of Bruce's story in this trilogy, the less satisfying it feels.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

A few follow-up thoughts after letting my recent rewatch simmer for a few days-

- Bane's "Of Course!" is probably one of my favorite things to quote, but I think the meme of it all overshadows the fact that I believe this a subtle Begins/Ra's callback: "You've attacked Gotham before?" "Of course!". Even Joker has a version of that with: "Harvey Dent never made it home." "Of course not!" Just a fun little motif the trilogy has for the villain having nonchalant cockiness about their plans.

Bane is both a brutal and effective villain; but he is also super fun to watch. That's a hard thing to do and the caliber of villains since TDKT - it's made ever more clear how rare it is to achieve. Not that we haven't had great villains in comic book films since, but it's a lot less often than I'd like, personally.

-I love some of the structural parallels in the setups of TDK and TDKR. In TDK, the mob hires The Joker, unintentionally unleashing him to enact his master plan which involves destroying them. Then in TDKR, the role of the mob shifts to the wealthy elite, and you have Daggett as the one who hires Bane and unleashes him, similarly leading to the fall of the wealthy in the film. In both cases you have people who only care about money and power dealing with larger forces that they don't understand. What's interesting is that the mob is actually more sympathetic. They're at least cornered and trying to survive an existential threat. Daggett is already rich and powerful, and is just after more money and power. I really love how the super rich are just portrayed as unambiguously gross in this film lol. I'm also grateful for the movie giving Ben Mendelsohn mainstream exposure. He's so amazing at playing slimeballs, culminating in his incredible role as Krennic in Star Wars.

I've actually not noticed this before. Hmm. A lot of food for thought.

This is why when I see a Batlobster post - I hit 'Like'.

-I would argue that the Miranda/Talia reveal barely qualifies as a twist. The movie is aggressively obvious about it to the point that it's not really shocking (especially not for fans), more of an inevitable final revelation for Bruce more than the audience.

Fair, but I also know many who were legit shocked when she stabs him. Kinda surprised me they're surprised.

Lastly, appreciate y'all. It's nice to still have a little corner of the internet to chat about these movies with some depth all these years later. It's like, I could go to Reddit and post this sort of stuff, but I feel like it just gets lost in a sea of comments or I'd get drawn into rehashed arguments that I don't really wanna have.

I was on the Batman subreddit for awhile - then had to walk away. Not only is it not a great place to discuss actual Batman comics (those threads get barely 10 replies), it's so film-centric with the same recycled questions, film VS film, posts aimed at taking potshots at whatever version, and just general toxicity.

Generally, I also got sick of the hate for this trilogy and the Keaton films. There feels a lot of recency bias over there - but then again, even The Batman doesn't go unscathed.

It's just not a fun place to discuss.

In general, it's kind of a hard and weird time to be a human, for so many reasons. These movies in particular have remained a source of comfort and inspiration for me during hard times so I really appreciate having a place to share in that with others, away from the noise.

I can relate. Going through a really, really rough time in my life right now. Revisiting these films and some other favourite books or games lately, has been a great source of fun and comfort.

Some things are comfort food, and this series is like that, for me.

So grateful it happened, and I'm so glad my love for this series got reignited around the time the newest film released.

 

[BobJM]

Anne Hathaway’s Catwoman was a treasure; despite all my issues with TDKR, all of her scenes elevate the film.

I didn’t like the casting at first, nor did I like the first reveal but she is by far the best thing in the movie IMO.

 

[The Joker]

Hathaway's Selina is an underrated gem. That "oops" she does in her first scene transitioning into Catwoman mode really set her tone. She's great.

 

[Rick190293]

Anne Hathaway’s Catwoman was a treasure; despite all my issues with TDKR, all of her scenes elevate the film.

I didn’t like the casting at first, nor did I like the first reveal but she is by far the best thing in the movie IMO.

Same here, wasn't a fan of her casting at first, and still don't think her costume is the best. But she's really great. Wish we saw more of her.
About the happy ending, they made clear that Gotham was a cleaner place, with the Bane/Talia situation being a ponctual thing, so I don't think Bruce didn't earned it. I'm not a big fan of the Blake character, but as a closure to Bruce's arc, it's well regarding imo.