BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 3

[Broseph44]

I did think it was jarring but I think that was on purpose. I think it's supposed to be this 'WTF' is going on moment. I think what it meant was that if they continued on their current course Martha would have died and Superman would have gone evil and took over the Earth while working for Darkseid. I think the Flash went back in time to try to prevent this from happening and appeared to Bruce.
I seem to recall in the Final Crisis that when Darkseid approaches Earth is causes people to have nightmares and this might be an aspect of that.

Nice sounds awesome to me

 

[roach]

Nice sounds awesome to me

pulling on that thread further I am willing to bet in JL we find out Lex was being manipulated by Darkseid and I am willing to bet that the Flash's solo film will be about him trying to go back in time from the Mad Max world

 

[haephestus]

Did anyone get the impression that Lex killed his father. There was an emphasis on Lex being an orphan (perhaps so that Lex, Bruce and Clark would share a similar childhood experience), but he also mentions that his father was physically (and perhaps sexually - I wasn't sure about the "abomination" comment) abusive and that Lex prayed for a "hero" to save him, but no-one did. I thought that maybe Lex saved himself by killing his father, perhaps contributing to his obsession with and resentment of "heroes"?

Also, to what extent does everyone think that the knowledge from the Kryptonian ship drove Lex insane as opposed to Lex already being insane? It seemed clear that he was ... unusual / disturbed before he accessed the ship. But, he really seemed to go off the deep end once he'd read / heard the Kryptonian history.

Finally, I had trouble catching all of the dialogue, but did Lex learn about Darkseid or Apokolips from the Kryptonian ship? I thought he said something about Superman's death being a "dinner bell" that was rung throughout the universe / galaxy and that *something* (i.e. Darkseid) would hear that bell and come to Earth. I didn't quite understand the logic of that, but I did have trouble understanding everything that Lex was raving about in his final scene.

 

[haephestus]

Another thing, did anyone else think it was odd that Kal-El seemed to deliberately avoid using any of his powers as "Clark Kent"? I know that there has been some debate about whether Clark could really super-speed-read a book without tearing the pages apart / setting them on fire or type on a computer super-fast without breaking the keyboard or causing the word processing application to crash or race through the streets with groceries without the groceries being "blown away" or catching on fire, etc.

But, it seemed a little odd that he never used his powers to make his life as Clark easier. He could have easily researched and written all of the crappy assignments that Perry gave him, thus earning Perry's respect which may have then led to Perry allowing Clark some leeway when choosing his assignments (i.e. writing about Batman instead of football). Even at home with Lois, he was frying eggs on the stovetop when he could have simply used his heat vision. Or he could have super-sped undressed before hopping into the bath with Lois. Or he could have crushed a piece of coal to make a diamond instead of buying one online.

Does Superman avoid doing those things because he's still worried that he can't control his powers? Because he's worried that by using any of his abilities as Clark Kent, then he may inadvertently reveal his secret identity? Or for some other reason? It just seemed to be a departure from most other versions of the Superman story (to my knowledge) where he does use his powers to make his life as Clark Kent a little easier.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

What's this I've heard reviewers say about Lex pissing in a cup?

 

[roach]

Another thing, did anyone else think it was odd that Kal-El seemed to deliberately avoid using any of his powers as "Clark Kent"? I know that there has been some debate about whether Clark could really super-speed-read a book without tearing the pages apart / setting them on fire or type on a computer super-fast without breaking the keyboard or causing the word processing application to crash or race through the streets with groceries without the groceries being "blown away" or catching on fire, etc.

But, it seemed a little odd that he never used his powers to make his life as Clark easier. He could have easily researched and written all of the crappy assignments that Perry gave him, thus earning Perry's respect which may have then led to Perry allowing Clark some leeway when choosing his assignments (i.e. writing about Batman instead of football). Even at home with Lois, he was frying eggs on the stovetop when he could have simply used his heat vision. Or he could have super-sped undressed before hopping into the bath with Lois. Or he could have crushed a piece of coal to make a diamond instead of buying one online.

Does Superman avoid doing those things because he's still worried that he can't control his powers? Because he's worried that by using any of his abilities as Clark Kent, then he may inadvertently reveal his secret identity? Or for some other reason? It just seemed to be a departure from most other versions of the Superman story (to my knowledge) where he does use his powers to make his life as Clark Kent a little easier.

I think the issue was that being Superman keeps him busy...which is why Perry asked "Where's he always going?"

 

[JaD]

What's this I've heard reviewers say about Lex pissing in a cup?

Yeah, basically, with Lex and the Senator's first scene together he says he wants the kryptonite to be imported into the country or something along those lines and she says no. Then when Lex tries to push her into doing it she says a few things about you can call it this but it's not going to happen. You can call piss in a bucket Granny's Peach Tea for all I care. And at the Senate hearing there's a jar of piss at the end of her bench with Granny's Peach Tea written on it.

Don't worry, you don't see him piss in a jar

 

[haephestus]

What's this I've heard reviewers say about Lex pissing in a cup?

Lex is trying to charm Holly Hunter's senator into letting him bring kryptonite into Metropolis. It's not made clear why Lex simply doesn't illegally import the kryptonite, but that's a minor plot issue given some of the others. They have a charged / heated conversation wherein the senator tells Lex that she won't allow him to import the kryptonite because she doesn't want him to make a weapon to kill Superman. Lex says that it's a defensive measure, but the senator says something about urinating in a cup and telling her that it's peach (?) tea won't make her drink it (perhaps it's a common saying in the US?).

So, Lex pees in a cup and replaces her glass of water at the committee hearing with his urine marked as peach tea as a way to let her know that he's in control and that he's won their battle.

 

[haephestus]

I think the issue was that being Superman keeps him busy...which is why Perry asked "Where's he always going?"

I understand that, but he's Superman. In the comics, animated movies and even some of the prior live action movies, I'm sure we've seen him write articles in seconds / minutes. It's how he can be a "star reporter" for the Daily Planet AND Superman - because he uses his super powers as both Clark and Superman.

In this movie, when he's Clark, he seems to deliberately avoid using his super powers in any manner, even when he's clearly putting his job as a journalist at risk since Perry White appears to be ready to fire him for failing to write the articles assigned to him and for instead pursuing stories which Perry has ordered him not to chase.

Also, he knows that Martha works in a crappy diner for a living when he could simply retrieve some lost / sunken treasure or use his super-powers to do all of the work on the farm so that Martha can simply sell the results of his labours or use his powers in some other way to provide for Martha.

It just seemed really odd to me.

 

[behemocoatl]

I did think it was jarring but I think that was on purpose. I think it's supposed to be this 'WTF' is going on moment. I think what it meant was that if they continued on their current course Martha would have died and Superman would have gone evil and took over the Earth while working for Darkseid. I think the Flash went back in time to try to prevent this from happening and appeared to Bruce.
I seem to recall in the Final Crisis that when Darkseid approaches Earth is causes people to have nightmares and this might be an aspect of that.

What do you mean by 'if they continued on their current course'? you mean if Batman and Superman continued fighting? Did Superman even have it in him to continue fighting when Batman had the spear?

Also, he knows that Martha works in a crappy diner for a living when he could simply retrieve some lost / sunken treasure or use his super-powers to do all of the work on the farm so that Martha can simply sell the results of his labours or use his powers in some other way to provide for Martha.

It just seemed really odd to me.

For some reason this reason this just hit me right in the feels. Martha Kent should be relaxing at home not working in the diner at her age
Or maybe she does it to keep active and social?

 

[haephestus]

For some reason this reason this just hit me right in the feels. Martha Kent should be relaxing at home not working in the diner at her age
Or maybe she does it to keep active and social?

Maybe. But she looked exhausted. And was working the late night shift. And the diner looked pretty crap. It could be that she just wants to stay active, especially with Johnathan gone, Clark in Metropolis and because she lives alone on an isolated farm. But, it struck me as odd. If we saw her working at ... I don't know ... the library or something it would have seemed "kinder" and more of an active choice in her retirement.

 

[JaD]

Also, he knows that Martha works in a crappy diner for a living when he could simply retrieve some lost / sunken treasure or use his super-powers to do all of the work on the farm so that Martha can simply sell the results of his labours or use his powers in some other way to provide for Martha.

It just seemed really odd to me.

For some reason this reason this just hit me right in the feels. Martha Kent should be relaxing at home not working in the diner at her age
Or maybe she does it to keep active and social?

Oh my God, I had the exact same thoughts during the movie! I was going to a much darker place though and I was thinking "the f***, Clark should break into some bank or something and leave a bag of money at her doorstep. Why is she working at a diner at her age?"

 

[Rapunzel]

Oy.....are we now really bi---ing cause Clark doesn't rob a bank to keep Ma from working??

Folks....Ma Kent would NOT want Clark to use his powers to help her. She has a work ethic and a belief in doing what's right. She works in the dinner because normal people do that. And she's normal.

First rule of powers: never use for personal gain. I'm glad Clark was taught better. If any of y'all had found Clark, you'd have turned him into a lazy criminal.

 

[JaD]

What do you mean by 'if they continued on their current course'? you mean if Batman and Superman continued fighting? Did Superman even have it in him to continue fighting when Batman had the spear?

Yeah, I'm still a little lost on what the message was that was being delivered because of how the fight played out. I need clarification on what Flash was saying too, was he saying that "Lois is the key"?

 

[JaD]

Oy.....are we now really bi---ing cause Clark doesn't rob a bank to keep Ma from working??

Folks....Ma Kent would NOT want Clark to use his powers to help her. She has a work ethic and a belief in doing what's right. She works in the dinner because normal people do that. And she's normal.

She should get with the times, get rich the normal way, lawsuits and internet fame

Definitely joking about the bank thing though ha, but I guess she no longer has her Sears job, or maybe she has 2.

 

[haephestus]

Oh my God, I had the exact same thoughts during the movie! I was going to a much darker place though and I was thinking "the f***, Clark should break into some bank or something and leave a bag of money at her doorstep. Why is she working at a diner at her age?"

Lol. Or that. Or he could have stolen some "dirty" cash from drug smugglers or some other criminals. I presume that he's been clearing up crime as well as major disasters, so surely he would have come across some resources which he could direct to his mother's welfare.

I didn't understand the context of the scene, but at one point he was dragging a capsized ship through ice. I first thought that he was building the Fortress of Solitude, but if he was just recovering the ship, then he could have broken it down and sold the scrap metal. Sure, he'd need to hire someone to help with the transactions since I doubt he'd want to fly into the metal yard as Superman, but he could do it.

Heck, after 18 months, he could have taken measures to protect and commercialise his brand with 95% of the proceeds going to charity and the rest to his mother. Or he could have arranged for Martha to be "employed" by the charity and given her money in that way. Possibly suspicious, but if Lex figured out his identity, then surely other motivated villains could do so as well.

 

[behemocoatl]

Oy.....are we now really bi---ing cause Clark doesn't rob a bank to keep Ma from working??

Folks....Ma Kent would NOT want Clark to use his powers to help her. She has a work ethic and a belief in doing what's right. She works in the dinner because normal people do that. And she's normal.

First rule of powers: never use for personal gain. I'm glad Clark was taught better. If any of y'all had found Clark, you'd have turned him into a lazy criminal.

That last sentence is legitimately cracking me up so hard! Along with the accompanying imagery, hilarious!

 

[haephestus]

I need clarification on what Flash was saying too, was he saying that "Lois is the key"?

I think so. I had the impression that in the alternate, future events from which The Flash travelled, Lois Lane had been killed and Superman held Batman to be personally responsible. Somehow, that led to Superman agreeing to conquer Earth with / for Darkseid and to Batman, The Flash and possibly others to form a resistance against Superman.

But, I wasn't entirely clear on how much of what Batman saw was just a dream and how much was a vision of the future that The Flash was somehow sharing with Batman.

And I'm not sure why in that version of events, Superman didn't blame Batman for Martha's death since that is presumably how events could have played out. It's definitely a scene that I'll be playing close attention to when I see it again.

 

[ZackBop]

Quick question: What is Superman's goal in the fight with Batman?

Batman obviously wants to kill him, and Superman knows that this whole thing is set up by Lex, so what is he actually hoping to achieve?

I saw a clip from the new trailer where he shouts, "I'll take you in without breaking you." Is this from their fight? Does he assume that Lex will not kill his mother if he simply apprehends Batman?

Just hoping someone can clear this up for me.

 

[haephestus]

First rule of powers: never use for personal gain. I'm glad Clark was taught better. If any of y'all had found Clark, you'd have turned him into a lazy criminal.

Damn right. I took him in when his lazy ass parents couldn't be bothered raising him on Krypton, so he'd better rob some banks, steal the Mona Lisa and ensure that I'm elected President of the World as thanks for all the hard work I did raising him.

You try having to continually rebuild your home because your teenage son with super-powers keeps setting it on fire with his heat vision, ruining the foundations when *********ing, exploding the toilet when he's got an upset stomach and "accidentally" destroying everything inside because he can't control his super-strength and rips doors of their hinges instead of just opening them like a normal person.

 

[JaD]

Lol. Or that. Or he could have stolen some "dirty" cash from drug smugglers or some other criminals. I presume that he's been clearing up crime as well as major disasters, so surely he would have come across some resources which he could direct to his mother's welfare.

I didn't understand the context of the scene, but at one point he was dragging a capsized ship through ice. I first thought that he was building the Fortress of Solitude, but if he was just recovering the ship, then he could have broken it down and sold the scrap metal. Sure, he'd need to hire someone to help with the transactions since I doubt he'd want to fly into the metal yard as Superman, but he could do it.

My friend and I were talking about that scene on the drive home. Since it was part of a montage of him helping people around the world I didn't understand what it was first but I think it's more of a visual metaphor of him looking like a labored worker (don't wanna use the word slave since that's a bit strong of what I'm getting at) during these times and possibly another savior metaphor. Like Jesus carrying the cross to his crucifixion.

Heck, after 18 months, he could have taken measures to protect and commercialise his brand with 95% of the proceeds going to charity and the rest to his mother. Or he could have arranged for Martha to be "employed" by the charity and given her money in that way. Possibly suspicious, but if Lex figured out his identity, then surely other motivated villains could do so as well.

It was odd to me too that she was still working so hard at her age, but at the same time it kind of is the world we're living in anyways and I think it'd be weird to see her living comfortably off of Superman retirement funds. I think that particular job was out of place though.

 

[behemocoatl]

Yeah, I'm still a little lost on what the message was that was being delivered because of how the fight played out. I need clarification on what Flash was saying too, was he saying that "Lois is the key"?

I think it people are saying that flash said 'SHE is the key'. No specific person was mentioned, though I think prolly referring to the internet's mom ol' Martha Kent. (Who deserves more than Diner work )

 

[haephestus]

Quick question: What is Superman's goal in the fight with Batman?

Batman obviously wants to kill him, and Superman knows that this whole thing is set up by Lex, so what is he actually hoping to achieve?

I saw a clip from the new trailer where he shouts, "I'll take you in without breaking you." Is this from their fight? Does he assume that Lex will not kill his mother if he simply apprehends Batman?

Just hoping someone can clear this up for me.

Superman wants to ask Bruce for help in rescuing Martha from Lex's hired goons. Superman's goal is to save Martha's life.

Lex is holding Martha hostage and planning to kill her (in a rather horrific fashion) if Superman doesn't kill Batman and bring Batman's head to Lex within a specified (short) timeframe.

 

[Rapunzel]

Yeah, I'm still a little lost on what the message was that was being delivered because of how the fight played out. I need clarification on what Flash was saying too, was he saying that "Lois is the key"?

He probably was saying this...and not because she died but because she is the one to explain who Martha is.

 

[haephestus]

I think it people are saying that flash said 'SHE is the key'. No specific person was mentioned, though I think prolly referring to the internet's mom ol' Martha Kent. (Who deserves more than Diner work )

I could have sworn that the Flash says "Lois Lane". But, it was hard for me to clearly hear everything that the Flash was saying. It would have made sense for him to be referring to Martha in the context of the events of the film, but I think he specifically named Lois.