BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[Brian Braddock]

In the comics, his body is sort of a self healing solar battery. If it retains power, he doesn't die in the traditional sense. Metaphorically, he's about to "take flight" again.

That or a flying saucer was sucking up the coffin.

Reminded me of the displacement we saw in MOS when he first took flight.

 

[TDKR1977]

The man you are talking about is the man with the blowtorch to Martha whom batman murdered. And all the incriminating evidence Bruce gathered on Lex was illegally obtained which makes in inadmissible in court and subjects anyone who handled it to very serious Criminal charges.

Yes, there may be sand from the desert on lois' notebook. It's well known Lois was in the desert, it's natural there would be sand on her notebook, none of that proves anything. The prosecution has no murder weapon, they have no suspect, and they have no access to the crime scene, and they have no jurisdiction to get access to any of those things.

And the General states his knowledge of the situation was classified and there was nothing presented in the film to imply any of that was changing.

If the film featured a story arc for Lois where she legitimately and thoroughly investigates the conflict and gathers enough admissible and irrefutable evidence against Lex, yes that would of been an awesome character arc which would of been way better than her falling off things and drowning and playing Superman's constant damsel in distress.

Killing in defense of another is NOT murder.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Killing in defense of another is NOT murder.

I'm a strong advocate of a batman with an unyielding no kill code, hence my strong semantics. But yes, on a legal basis, you are correct.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I completely do not remember hearing that in the brief TV segment, but that certainly explains a lot. Still not the kind of thing I'd like my Batman to get up to personally...but not illogical at least.

I wasn't bsing when I said Snyder quite literally tried to make the most comic book accurate movie aesthetically. The news reports are mostly on TVs in the background kind of how you'd see them off to the side in a panel while random joes are in a pub. The problem with that is, in a comic, you can read the words at your leisure. Once or twice if need be to catch the little details. Doesn't work in this context in film. If you're dropping story beats and character details only a small portion of the audience catches you flubbed up.

 

[TDKR1977]

I'm a strong advocate of a batman with an unyielding no kill code, hence my strong semantics. But yes, on a legal basis, you are correct.

True on a moral basis, as well.

 

[Vaibow]

Well - way i see it, the smallville community, or at least the extended family all saw Clark dead, then, when he reappears, he has some explaining to do, but, i'm pretty sure they have all put 2 and 2 together - they also seem like a heavily religious community and would herald the second coming.

Regarding Clark Kent in Metropolis - they probably never went to the funeral and lois can say his body was never found.

They can have Clark reappear, with crutches, amnesia, almost a heroes welcome. Let Clark settle back before we see Superman (That's what annoyed me with Superman Returns, they both appear on the same day or week).

Then - Superman can reveal himself - which should be the most epic of reveals, starting with a shirt rip and he can simple say, that, being a kryptonian, he didn't die in the 'human sense' and only drifted out of conscientiousness.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Killing in defense of another is NOT murder.

So whose life is he defending when he brands criminals he's already beaten down? Whose life is he defending when he machine guns those trucks down in the Batmobile chase scene killing everyone inside? To have murder you need:

- Intent to kill
- Motive to kill and
- Capability to kill

All three must be present from a legal standpoint. All three were in those situations. So he is a murderer. He also commits acts of manslaughter (grenade deflection into the room of thugs)

 

[InJustice]

Killing in defense of another is NOT murder.

Murder doesn't matter because Batman isn't in a legal context. He still killed someone.

 

[jokesonm3]

Killing in defense of another is NOT murder.

Well in that case every villain in DC Comics from a purse snatcher to a demigod should be killed "in defense of another" with that logic.

 

[Assassin32]

Wait, how did they get Martha Kent from Kansas to Metropolis in thirty minutes? Did they use the same airline that took Christian Bale from Pit Prison, Middle East to Gotham overnight?

 

[BatsDC]

i wish people criticized AOU this hard lol. this is going so so far into a comic book film

Plenty of people have criticised AoU to high hell lol. Whedon wasn't exactly a popular guy afterwards around those parts

 

[Denish]

Guys one question, I've seen the movie already, but rewatching the trailers I noticed that I don't remember seeing in it the scene which features those men riding horses..

 

[sepharih]

True on a moral basis, as well.

That might be true, but its pretty much inconsequential.

This isn't an argument of the translation of the 10 commandments, but about Batman. Batman does not have a no-murder code. Batman has a no-kill code. Not a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Motown Marvel]

So whose life is he defending when he brands criminals he's already beaten down? Whose life is he defending when he machine guns those trucks down in the Batmobile chase scene killing everyone inside? To have murder you need:

- Intent to kill
- Motive to kill and
- Capability to kill

All three must be present from a legal standpoint. All three were in those situations. So he is a murderer. He also commits acts of manslaughter (grenade deflection into the room of thugs)

I believe the specific example in question was when he killed/murdered the guy with the flame thrower on Martha.

Batman absolutely killed and murdered people in this film. And that will always been unacceptable to me. Batman and Superman have traditionally been defined as upholding with absolution a no kill policy. Yes, in the comics writers have experimented with this and blurred the lines and have made exceptions. More often than not, those situations are routinely retconned from canon and I would personally regard them as a mistake to begin with, no matter their context.

 

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Guys one question, I've seen the movie already, but rewatching the trailers I noticed that I don't remember seeing in it the scene which features those men riding horses..

My guess is a lot of the Knightmare stuff was cut and it definitely felt like that.

 

[O.C Cobblebot]

Wait, how did they get Martha Kent from Kansas to Metropolis in thirty minutes? Did they use the same airline that took Christian Bale from Pit Prison, Middle East to Gotham overnight?

Well we don't know the exact timeline between kidnapping and "fight night". Also I bet that they didn't drive Martha from Kansas to Metropolis t:

edit. Did the movie mention thirty minutes?

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Uh there was

But of course Snyder decided to cut it , I'm sure he did it to please the fanboys who wanted more badass time for the final battle

So, when she tells Lex that he had been exposed are we supposed to asume she is lying? If she said it then she managed to convince him.

What tells you that Snyder is the one who decided to cut it? Jesus christ, he's the director but he also has higher ups behind him, it'll be in the ultimate cut.

 

[Supa]

Killing in self defense or in defense of another isn't murder under US law, it's called "justifiable homicide." It's partially the point of the 2nd amendment giving all citizens the right to bear arms, that they always might be allowed to defend themselves.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Have to admit though, never been a fan of the Miller Flash casting and even though it was only a few seconds and a couple of lines (actually, 'words' would be more accurate) I'm still not feeling it. Hell, even cosmetically, long black hair and a short goatee doesn't exactly scream Barry Allen to me.

 

[Assassin32]

edit. Did the movie mention thirty minutes?

No, not at all. I'm just being an ******* because it's better to joke and laugh about this failure than it is to mourn it. Or rationalize it's many glaring flaws.

 

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Not once does Batman say in the film he has a no kill rule. The problem with Batman killing is pre conceived, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This just isn't your Batman then. It's a Batman. Let's be real most of the killings were done like I'll shoot a car etc it is not like he is going around killings criminals, ie the first time we meet Batman in costume he didn't kill the guy just branded him. But where this is more expendable henchman stopping him from reaching the target then Batman was getting past them just not caring if they got killed or not. This sorts of goes with what Alfred says later.

Also for the Martha rescue, again it was Brutal but I don't think he killed anyone and as the flamethrower guy, I am pretty sure he is one to actually did it but Batman happened to let the gas out. In that instant had Batman just shot him in the head then yes I will understand these murderer complaints, but quite frankly there has been a big overreaction especially with the Punisher comments.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I believe the specific example in question was when he killed/murdered the guy with the flame thrower on Martha.

Batman absolutely killed and murdered people in this film. And that will always been unacceptable to me. Batman and Superman have traditionally been defined as upholding with absolution a no kill policy. Yes, in the comics writers have experimented with this and blurred the lines and have made exceptions. More often than not, those situations are routinely retconned from canon and I would personally regard them as a mistake to begin with, no matter their context.

Yep. Add in that Superman now has three kills under his belt and he's off to a great start. Thankfully they only killed about 500 - 600 people in this movie. Big improvement from the thousands in MOS.

Maybe by JL5 there can only be one murder. That should be the goal. Like with F bombs in PG-13 movies. Only one murder per Superman/Batman movie.

 

[Boy Scout]

Preconceived notions are inevitable when a character has existed for 75 years. I wish people would stop throwing that term out there like it's a bad thing. These aren't brand new literary characters we're dealing with.

 

[Baggie_Saiyan]

One thing I was disappointed in was the Armour suit. Batman just showed up in it like that no build up or explanation. We saw him plan the weapons and train etc. It would have been nice that was about to gear up and Alfred would be like you know that won't make a difference and Bruce be like it will buy me time.

Snyder explained these things at comic con but sadly not where it counts.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Not once does Batman say in the film he has a no kill rule. The problem with Batman killing is pre conceived, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This just isn't your Batman then. It's a Batman. Let's be real most of the killings were done like I'll shoot a car etc it is not like he is going around killings criminals, ie the first time we meet Batman in costume he didn't kill the guy just branded him. But where this is more expendable henchman stopping him from reaching the target then Batman was getting past them just not caring if they got killed or not. This sorts of goes with what Alfred says later.

Also for the Martha rescue, again it was Brutal but I don't think he killed anyone and as the flamethrower guy, I am pretty sure he is one to actually did it but Batman happened to let the gas out. In that instant had Batman just shot him in the head then yes I will understand these murderer complaints, but quite frankly there has been a big overreaction especially with the Punisher comments.

Not once did anyone say that was the Robin costume hanging in the Batcave. So I guess by that logic it isn't Robin's suit.

As stated before the brands are death sentences. And Batman absolutely has a no kill rule. It's pretty much his #1 rule. To say he allows criminals to die by their own hand etc etc is one thing. But it was criticized in the Keaton movies, and criticized in the Nolan movies. This movie doesn't just make him a killer but a murderer. Why? Because Snyder doesn't get the character. He's an alcoholic with PTSD that kills and he used a gun. That's fundamentally not Batman, that's Thomas Wayne.