BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[ThePhantasm]

The editing was really a big problem. I cannot emphasize how much better this film would have been if it were edited better. I'm really hoping the full-length R-rated feature is a superior product.

Snyder may be tone-deaf when it comes to pacing. A lot of moments just didn't land because they popped out of nowhere. That Batmobile chase sequence was nowhere as cool as it should have been, due to both the all-too-tight filming of the sequence and the fact that it just seemed dropped into the story with no real relation to anything else. Yeah, I know Bruce is trying to acquire the kryptonite, but why not acquire it while it was being loaded in the truck?

However, I thought the film's build-up to the Bats v Supes battle created a lot of tension and emotion, and that fight was pretty well handled in terms of its pacing and flow. The same with the Doomsday fight. I thought the finale was pretty strong.

I think if someone took the film and trimmed it down, maybe cutting out the Africa stuff, the dream sequences, and adding in a few scenes from the R-rated cut, you could get a pretty nice version of the film.

I say all this as someone who enjoyed the film.

 

[Travesty]

I'll agree about the nightmare scene. I thought it was a cool little 3-5min Elseworld tale we got to see unfold for us in live action, but it's really the only scene in the movie that felt completely random and out of place. Or maybe they should have interjected it in a different spot within the movie, and then replaced that with just The Flash dream? I just didn't like how abruptly it came about, and then how he had a dream within a dream. I thought it would've worked better if he had the nightmare when he was at his lake house, or just cut it out of the movie altogether.

Very cool to watch, but felt very out of place, for me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Question. If Superman is already "waking up" at the end of the movie, how is going to be buried for awhile? Or do we think he will already be back by the time the next movie rolls around?

 

[Sleiek]

Question. If Superman is already "waking up" at the end of the movie, how is going to be buried for awhile? Or do we think he will already be back by the time the next movie rolls around?

You know I wished they didn't show the dirt moving, I would have preferred they kept him dead until JL. But is probably problematic for the general audience.

But it depends on where JL will start off.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You know I wished they didn't show the dirt moving, I would have preferred they kept him dead until JL. But is probably problematic for the general audience.

But it depends on where JL will start off.

That is true, which makes me wonder if they will try and keep the "real time" idea.

 

[Mjölnir]

Okay, why would these reviewers like this Batman if he is not the standard version and he was not acting like "himself"?

Most of them don't specifically state why they like Batman, they just say "Ben Affleck killed it as Batman" or " I was seeing Bruce Wayne not Ben Affleck". If these characters were such a departure, they wouldn't be making statements like that. People were able to recognize the Bruce Wayne and Batman in Ben Affleck. I will remind you again, these reactions were from comic book fan reviewers.

If I am not mistaken, the main reason why some people don't like these characters is because of their characterization, they see it as a kind of departure from the usual old school version.

The Collider crew seems to enjoy Batman but they brought up that it was weird that he just kills people. Jeremy Jahns did the same. That's a couple of examples of notable nerd critics that clearly pointed out that this is an unusual Batman, but that they liked him overall.

When they say that Affleck was good in the role that really has little bearing on how the role is written so that's much less relevant than what I said in the above paragraph.

I personally don't care that much that he kills as I'm not a huge Batman fan. The only thing I think is questionable is how someone like The Joker is still around if Batman is willing to kill, and able to kill even Superman.

 

[The Guard]

I think the stupidest/funniest line in this movie was when Bruce called Metropolis "A beautiful lie."

Oh my God.

What a Frank Miller line taken to its worst extent. Once again a lack of understand of the very influence. Typical Snyder.

He wasn't talking about Metropolis...

 

[TDKR1977]

The Collider crew seems to enjoy Batman but they brought up that it was weird that he just kills people. Jeremy Jahns did the same. That's a couple of examples of notable nerd critics that clearly pointed out that this is an unusual Batman, but that they liked him overall.

When they say that Affleck was good in the role that really has little bearing on how the role is written so that's much less relevant than what I said in the above paragraph.

I personally don't care that much that he kills as I'm not a huge Batman fan. The only thing I think is questionable is how someone like The Joker is still around if Batman is willing to kill, and able to kill even Superman.

Use your imagination. Maybe at the time he put the Joker away he wasn't yet willing to kill?

 

[Sleiek]

The Collider crew seems to enjoy Batman but they brought up that it was weird that he just kills people. Jeremy Jahns did the same. That's a couple of examples of notable nerd critics that clearly pointed out that this is an unusual Batman, but that they liked him overall.

When they say that Affleck was good in the role that really has little bearing on how the role is written so that's much less relevant than what I said in the above paragraph.

I personally don't care that much that he kills as I'm not a huge Batman fan. The only thing I think is questionable is how someone like The Joker is still around if Batman is willing to kill, and able to kill even Superman.

Yes he kills and he brands people, what else is he doing that is so different than the standard version? It is just one aspect of many.

For the record, I am a big Batman fan. I didn't particularly enjoy when he kills people (but c'mon he doesn't go all Punisher), but they filmed it in a way you don't see any death, mostly. And I am fine with that. Everything else he does, Brilliant.

Also I agree with the bolded part, they better have a good explanation for this in Suicide Squad.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yes he kills and he brands people, what else is he doing that is so different than the standard version? It is just one aspect of many.

Also I agree with the bolded part, they better have a good explanation for this in Suicide Squad.

It's a pretty core value for the character, and therefor central in who he is. Like it tends to be for all heroes with a no killing policy. As said I don't care too much myself, but I think it's quite clear why many fans do.

Yes, I hope they will bring that up. As long as they explain why I'm fine with it.

 

[Sleiek]

It's a pretty core value for the character, and therefor central in who he is. Like it tends to be for all heroes with a no killing policy. As said I don't care too much myself, but I think it's quite clear why many fans do.

Yes, I hope they will bring that up. As long as they explain why I'm fine with it.

See, I actually don't have a problem with it because I am fairly convinced that this "world weary" Batman is not the Batman he used to be when it comes to the no kill rule. Alfred touches on it a bit. I get fairly emotional when they pull the Robin card and I am letting it slide when Batman becomes more brutal than he needs to be. Maybe because I don't believe in the no kill rule that much. It works for comic books. Also, if Batman goes all Punisher then I will be concerned.

This is a Batman who is a little confused, hence why I actually buy that he wants to kill Superman, they can always bring him back on track. Back to the way he used to be, that is following the no kill rule. There are some people who hate this Batman because of the no kill rule. But from what I am hearing, most people like this Batman regardless of it.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

So it ends with Superman's alive.

Ok so Zod gets his neck snapped & is dead, Zod stays dead.
Superman gets stabbed through his chest & he's dead, I'ma be back in 3 days guy.

 

[Robin91939]

I think the stupidest/funniest line in this movie was when Bruce called Metropolis "A beautiful lie."

Oh my God.

What a Frank Miller line taken to its worst extent. Once again a lack of understand of the very influence. Typical Snyder.

Bruce was saying that the end of his dream, where the bats lift him and raise him back up above is a beautiful moment, but a lie. It's lie because he will always be trapped in the darkness and haunted by the memory of his parents' murder.

It had nothing to do with Metropolis. Metropolis was just the "Where" on the title card for the next scene.


So, it's YOU who have the lack of understanding of how the film worked and are passing it off on the hipster trend of saying Snyder is a hack who doesn't understand anything about depth.

If you can't understand simple meaning of dialogue and visuals ... I really don't know what to do.

-R

 

[Rapunzel]

So it ends with Superman's alive.

Ok so Zod gets his neck snapped & is dead, Zod stays dead.
Superman gets stabbed through his chest & he's dead, I'ma be back in 3 days guy.

I'm thinking the codex in his DNA has something to do with that, and will tie into the anti-life equation.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes he kills and he brands people, what else is he doing that is so different than the standard version? It is just one aspect of many.

For the record, I am a big Batman fan. I didn't particularly enjoy when he kills people (but c'mon he doesn't go all Punisher), but they filmed it in a way you don't see any death, mostly. And I am fine with that. Everything else he does, Brilliant.

Also I agree with the bolded part, they better have a good explanation for this in Suicide Squad.

He did go Punisher. That is the point of the brand.

The problems with the movie is that his "problems" strike at the core of his being. I think Daredevil Season 2 is a perfect example of what people have a problem with, with Batman. He is dark, brooding and badass. Great. But then we have those scenes where the best of Batman, his integrity and moral compass, are thrown out of the window for cool action.

Batman is the kind of guy that hates guns. Holding one would shake him. And yet he has plenty of them and even uses on in the present tense. Not the Knightmare, but the present tense. He shot a gun. Batman.

I grew up with BTAS, Batman Beyond, JLU, the comics and the movies. The only place he killed was the movies with Burton. And he never did with the zeal or intent he did it here.

I think it is actually rather easy to sum up that when in TDK Bruce says he has "one rule" everyone and their mother knew what he meant. They knew he didn't kill.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Also I agree with the bolded part, they better have a good explanation for this in Suicide Squad.

Maybe he already killed Joker and Leto is just Jason Todd

 

[Robin91939]

So it ends with Superman's alive.

Ok so Zod gets his neck snapped & is dead, Zod stays dead.
Superman gets stabbed through his chest & he's dead, I'ma be back in 3 days guy.

This is a good point. But it could always be explained by the fact that Kal-El is different than most Kryptonians.

A.) He was a natural birth.
B.) His cells are infused with the genetic code of every potential being of Krypton.

So there is a plot device in place to explain him being a special circumstance and come back.

-R

 

[ThePhantasm]

He did go Punisher. That is the point of the brand.

Actually the point is a mark of zorro thing. I seem to remember someone stating this in an interview.

 

[ThePhantasm]

This is a good point. But it could always be explained by the fact that Kal-El is different than most Kryptonians.

A.) He was a natural birth.
B.) His cells are infused with the genetic code of every potential being of Krypton.

So there is a plot device in place to explain him being a special circumstance and come back.

-R

C) his cells were irradiated with the sun for his whole life, whereas the other kryptonians were only beginning to develop their powers when they were defeated

 

[TheScarecrow]

I don't think the brand bothers me.

On the whole, I didn't think Batman was on a murderous rampage either.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not saying these are problems. But these are things that legit made me go, "WTH" after seeing the movie:

- If Clark is already waking up at the end of the movie, when is the world and the others suppose to know when he is back? I mean, the dirt is already moving. He should be out of the ground in mere moments.

- Why exactly couldn't Wonder Woman use the spear to kill Doomsday? She after all wouldn't be weakened by the Kryptonite, so she wouldn't have to stand there and get stabbed.

- How exactly did Lex adding his DNA result in Doomsday? I get the abomination idea. But human DNA is weaker. So how did it result in a stronger being?

- Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to interrupt the start of the fight with the JL crap? I was actually shocked. Especially when apparently Lex came up with all there symbosl.

- What exactly did working out do to help Batman defeat Superman? Or did we just need a montage?

- What was the point of the Knightmare scene and why did they show the whole thing in trailers?

- Why didn't Clark tell Batman he needed to save his "mother". Why did he specifically say her name first? It has no context whatsoever.

- Why did Superman push Batman? He wanted his help, so why not just talk to him, or simply stop Batman as soon as he got there so they could talk? Why attack him?

- What in the hell was the point of Lex's plan? The best case scenario is he ended up dead.

- Who signed off on the WWI Diana picture?

 

[Robin91939]

He did go Punisher. That is the point of the brand.

The problems with the movie is that his "problems" strike at the core of his being. I think Daredevil Season 2 is a perfect example of what people have a problem with, with Batman. He is dark, brooding and badass. Great. But then we have those scenes where the best of Batman, his integrity and moral compass, are thrown out of the window for cool action.

Batman is the kind of guy that hates guns. Holding one would shake him. And yet he has plenty of them and even uses on in the present tense. Not the Knightmare, but the present tense. He shot a gun. Batman.

I grew up with BTAS, Batman Beyond, JLU, the comics and the movies. The only place he killed was the movies with Burton. And he never did with the zeal or intent he did it here.

I think it is actually rather easy to sum up that when in TDK Bruce says he has "one rule" everyone and their mother knew what he meant. They knew he didn't kill.

When in the present did he fire a gun? He shot a rifle that was loaded with a tracking device.

In the Batmobile and Batwing he shot turret guns, yeah -- But in The Dark Knight Trilogy as well as Batman and Batman Returns he fired rockets from his Batmobile and Batwing. Rockets.


Yes. The Nolan Batman was more adverse to killing and avoided it at all costs. And never directly took a life. This Batman has lost more.

In the context of the story, this is a Batman who only recently started branding people (he's branded only two criminals at this point). And you can assume has only recently become violent enough to be more lenient with killing.

His experience with Superman and seeing the selfless sacrifice that he makes, reminds Bruce to be the hero that (for lack of a better expression) we deserve. That's why he only punches the brand into the wall of Luthor's cell and not into his skin. He is back to the tactics of intimidation and fear -- not murder.

That's part of his arc.

-R

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Actually the point is a mark of zorro thing. I seem to remember someone stating this in an interview.

I am talking about the intent. He branded people so they'd be attacked in jail. This ended up with a person dead. At least one person.

 

[TDKR1977]

Bruce was saying that the end of his dream, where the bats lift him and raise him back up above is a beautiful moment, but a lie. It's lie because he will always be trapped in the darkness and haunted by the memory of his parents' murder.

It had nothing to do with Metropolis. Metropolis was just the "Where" on the title card for the next scene.


So, it's YOU who have the lack of understanding of how the film worked and are passing it off on the hipster trend of saying Snyder is a hack who doesn't understand anything about depth.

If you can't understand simple meaning of dialogue and visuals ... I really don't know what to do.

-R

Yeah. You beat me to it.

 

[thorstone]

Find it funny that Superman died on Easter weekend.

This may be the thing that is triggering all of the liberal big media critics-- it's a Christ film and being released the week of Easter it is going to be heavily seen as a Christ film by the general audience. This is all about hating God (being inserted into a comic book). So petty.