TMOS Reviews Thread - Non Spoiler Review and Discussion - Part 6

[ЯɘvlveR]

When the "action" is horribly photographed with zoomtype jump cuts, the people are all CGI Gumby figures and the rest of the movie doesn't make the most of it's time to make you really become emotionally invested about the characters... yes, it makes sense.

- Jow

so what you're telling me is, cavill doesn't really fly in this movie? i got emotional invested in a place beyond the pines. i didn't find it all that fun. i don't see how that has anything to do with "fun" when they say fun, i think of them wanting big blue boyscout cheese. same kinda cheese they been hating on the character for for some time.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Here's something to chew on:

Man of Steel - 59%, average score: 6.4
The Incredible Hulk - 67%, average score: 6.2

 

[TheFuture]

From Steve Persall of the Tampa Bay Times (formerly the St. Pete Times - my hometown paper):

http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-d...steel-revitalizes-the-superman-legend/2126392



I grew up with Persall, so I have a very good idea of the things he likes and doesn't like. He's not usually a big comic book fan. He called Avengers fun, but brawny and lamebrainy. Even so, he gave it a B+ because it was a great popcorn flick with a lame villain (his words).

He gave Man Of Steel an A.

I've been reading Persall's reviews for about 20 years, since I was a teenager. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with him on his film selection, but I can always tell from his film reviews if I will like a movie or not.

Man Of Steel has ZERO issues if Steve Persall gave it an A.

For comparison's sake, Persall gave Avengers a B+, Dark Knight Rises a B, The Dark Knight an A (same as Man Of Steel), Captain America a B, and Thor a B-.

Sure sounds like he is.

 

[Liam_H]

Let's see with about 200 reviews to go for it to remain fresh it can't get more than 80 rottens from that. About 3:2, not hard to do but considering the way the scale has been sliding.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

by TransformersINC


quote-

It's funny that all the negative reviews sound like positives to me. Too much action? Want. It's an action movie with depth (they say that's a negative because action movies aren't supposed to be "deep")? Want. Not cheesy enough? Want. Not like the Chris Reeve films? Want.

Haha. I was thinking the same. Not enough humor? Love. Too dark? Love.

 

[-JKR-]

lol having seen the movie too... I say you're allowed to your opinion. I'm glad you enjoyed the flick. Wish I could have too.

- Jow

Anjow. I missed your review. Any links?

 

[Gavan]

Let's see it first, shall we (unless you have, then... fine).

 

[restlessdreams]

As far as RT goes if this movie was 85% or above everyone would be saying how great the movie. Now because its at 60% people are saying don't listen to the reviews they are always wrong.

 

[Snark88]

VOICE OF DOOM^ Seriously dude, it's time to get off Rotten Tomatoes. Did you see the movie yet? If not, I suggest you find out for yourself and don't like percentages cloud your way of enjoyment. It's unhealthy.

Irrelevant.

I'm not talking about my personal take on the film, i'm talking about Rotten Tomatoes. I might like the movie who knows, but that's not what i'm discussing.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

From Steve Persall of the Tampa Bay Times (formerly the St. Pete Times - my hometown paper):

http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-d...steel-revitalizes-the-superman-legend/2126392



I grew up with Persall, so I have a very good idea of the things he likes and doesn't like. He's not usually a big comic book fan. He called Avengers fun, but brawny and lamebrainy. Even so, he gave it a B+ because it was a great popcorn flick with a lame villain (his words).

He gave Man Of Steel an A.

I've been reading Persall's reviews for about 20 years, since I was a teenager. I've met him a few times. I don't agree with him on his film selection, but I can always tell from his film reviews if I will like a movie or not.

Man Of Steel has ZERO issues if Steve Persall gave it an A.

For comparison's sake, Persall gave Avengers a B+, Dark Knight Rises a B, The Dark Knight an A (same as Man Of Steel), Captain America a B, and Thor a B-.

Just because one reviewer in Tampa gave it a great review does NOT mean the film has ZERO issues. Don't be foolish.

 

[sf2]

Finally I have watched it !!!! Yes!!! The critic are really harsh on Superman!!! No movie is perfect. You will hope do the romance a little more... the saving a little more.... the destruction a little less... but the whole story is solid... very well delivered!!!

The critic had me worried a little. Thought it would like immortal.

The best superman film. Period.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Here's something to chew on:

Man of Steel - 59%, average score: 6.4
The Incredible Hulk - 67%, average score: 6.2

This, combined with your avatar, is heartwarming.

A movie on RT can have an average score of 6/10, but have 100% on the Tomatometer.

 

[Tra-El]

Here's something to chew on:

Man of Steel - 59%, average score: 6.4
The Incredible Hulk - 67%, average score: 6.2

HAH! They are comparing Man of Steel to a movie full of comic-book bubbles and panels? Yeah, okay. Just goes to show the blind criticism of this film. I bet the message is going way over peoples heads. Fans like Jwow didn't like it. So be it, but to claim The Incredible Hulk status? Give me a break.

 

[Klidokrator]

Love the Donner-verse, but it's way behind me. If it's anything like SR or 1978-80, audiences are in for a drawn out bore and laugh. I'm ready for the next step. BRING ON THE SERIOUSNESS.

This. I remember catching Superman II on Greek TV, with my best mate a year ago and we watched it because it was 2 O clock in the morning and nothing else was playing. We rolled eyes in most scenes. From the bad guys talking in space, to the superkiss in the end.

 

[Gavan]

As far as RT goes if this movie was 85% or above everyone would be saying how great the movie. Now because its at 60% people are saying don't listen to the reviews they are always wrong.

You have to factor out the "not my Superman" from the reviews.

 

[Anjow1060]

Anjow. I missed your review. Any links?

I'm warning people here. This is a NON-Spoiler review.

However I got flamed out the ying yang the other day for asking a Superman shaving question. That being said my non-spoiler review is in spoiler tags for the pureists.

If you have to quote it to respond please make sure you put it in spoiler tags as well.

Spoiler

Man Of Steel: Be careful what you wish for...

It's no secret that my favorite Superhero movie of all time is Batman Begins. Yes, even over the almighty Dark Knight.

That being said, I went into Man of Steel expecting it to be the Begins version of Superman.

WRONG-O.

That was my first mistake.

To be honest - in the end it felt more like the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern of Superman - without the comedy or whimsicalness of that flick.

And that's not a perk of Green Lantern or a requirement of Superman, more or less something that distinguishes the two films.

Man of Steel plays as if there's no script - but rather what we in the film industry call a "Beat Sheet". A series of events required to tell a story. The script then follows that sheet and expunges upon each beat, elaborating it into something more. Creating moments that matter and make us relate to character through them. That doesn't happen here.

As I described to my friend (who loved the film): Imagine the best Superman movie ever made. Now imagine you didn't see it, but some fanboy just got out of the theater and is telling you all about it. That's how the movie is written.

Truthfully - the components are all there - the liver, the eyes, the lungs, the legs and arms and there is cold and still - beating once or twice to give us a real moment. God forgive me, I love sentimentality and I love it in a Superman movie. Outside of two moments - one with Lois before Superman first meets Zod and the other during a pinnacle moment with Jonathan Kent - the moment had no moments that I really connected to.

The problem is the build for me. By the time Superman is in the suit... he doesn't take it off. The initial fight with Zod and crew and the final fight between Superman and Zod and crew is separated by a mere 10-15 minutes. Clark never even gets out of the suit. I was along with the movie until this point, chalking it all up to a slow build. Once I realized this was the final fight - I started hating the movie.

The fights and such are CGI Gumby men fighting and while I've long pined for Superman to punch something - I got what I wished for. And dammit - I don't think it was worth it. I wasn't riding with Superman. I couldn't get an "in" to be rooting for him.

Most of the build up is about Clark trying to find his place in the world... even though he really kind of already knows what it is. It's more or less him trying to figure out "when" to come out of the alien closet - reducing him to a one note character. The key to Superman, with all his physical prowess, is to give him as many internal and emotional struggles as possible. That not only makes him interesting when he's unbeatable physically - but it also makes him more human and thus more relatable. He does wonder how he got here and what his place is - but then Jor El pops up in the fortress and explains it all to him in under 3 minutes.... effectively ruining the last 30-45 minutes and making them irrelevant to his character arc..... rendering him to have none.

And then it's all punchy punch from there.

And even that has it's issues - whether it be the "ugh" CGI aspect of it, or the fact that the cinematography gets REALLY annoying. If you thought handheld was bad in Nolan's movies? WORSE. If you thought the camera was too close in Nolan's movies? WORSE. If you thought the CGI / Exposion was disgusting in the Transformers movies? WORSE. The cinematography did what I've dubed the "pop shot" in which the camera almost does a jump cut / quick zoom technique in the film and it gets overused and kills it reasoning. It's ok every now and then and especially allowed when Superman is honing in on something - but the rest of the time it's just jarring and takes me out of the moment.

The rest of the characters are also kind of one-note. They're all acted really well by the actors but they have no struggles of their own - sans Lois - which was the highlight of the movie. The direction and purpose they instill her with in this film was perfect and everything she needs for a modernization of her character. I wish we had gotten more.

All in all - I didn't really HATE this movie, but now I understand that justified rating on Rotten Tomatoes I so blindly argued against mere hours before. I stand before you humbled and corrected.

The film is by no means as boring as Superman Returns - but not at all as exciting as the perfect harmonization and balance that Batman Begins is.

This film feels a lot like "Unbreakable" in the sense that it really just feels like the 1st act of something bigger. Papa jow needs more Clark Kent and less Superman. More build and less fragmentation. More character and yes.... less action.

I'll see it again, hopefully my perception will change - but I'm starting to doubt it. It's still not "my" Superman, as the saying goes. It was however, my best friend's, as I could see the restraint he was holding back from slugging me when I started saying I was disappointed by it. I love you Bud, don't hate me. lol

See it. You'll make some connections with characters - but much like a 56K modem - don't plan on staying connected very long. Your emotions aren't in the back seat while the action takes the wheel - they're in the rear view... waving goodbye.

PS: If you miss the 20 some-odd blatant "LexCorp" logos in the final fight... you're blind. That's overkill on the easter eggs.

- Jow

 

[Eddie Brock]

Here's something to chew on:

Man of Steel - 59%, average score: 6.4
The Incredible Hulk - 67%, average score: 6.2

I'll add one more. This should shake things up:
Iron Man 2 - 73%, average score: 6.5

This, combined with your avatar, is heartwarming.

A movie on RT can have an average score of 6/10, but have 100% on the Tomatometer.

I do what I can. Haha.

HAH! They are comparing Man of Steel to a movie full of comic-book bubbles and panels? Yeah, okay. Just goes to show the blind criticism of this film. I bet the message is going way over peoples heads. Fans like Jwow didn't like it. So be it, but to claim The Incredible Hulk status? Give me a break.

Wrong Hulk movie.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

HAH! They are comparing Man of Steel to a movie full of comic-book bubbles and panels? Yeah, okay. Just goes to show the blind criticism of this film. I bet the message is going way over peoples heads. Fans like Jwow didn't like it. So be it, but to claim The Incredible Hulk status? Give me a break.

Is it me or you have your Hulk movies mixed up?

 

[Tra-El]

This. I remember catching Superman II on Greek TV, with my best mate a year ago and we watched it because it was 2 O clock in the morning and nothing else was playing. We rolled eyes in most scenes. From the bad guys talking in space, to the superkiss in the end.

When Supes reached on his chest and threw the Super-holagram at Non my girl BUSTED OUT LAUGHING. "That was the most ridiculous thing I have EVER seen!"

Yeah, real nice. I turned to her and said "..now do you see why he needs to be takin' more seriously?"

 

[Gavan]

HAH! They are comparing Man of Steel to a movie full of comic-book bubbles and panels? Yeah, okay. Just goes to show the blind criticism of this film. I bet the message is going way over peoples heads. Fans like Jwow didn't like it. So be it, but to claim The Incredible Hulk status? Give me a break.

I think you mean the Ang Lee Hulk.

 

[Tra-El]

Is it me or you have your Hulk movies mixed up?

Forgive me. Both movies left no impression at all that I can even care less to differentiate between the two of them. My brother is a huge Hulk fan, too. We'll see if he thinks it's on par with The Incredible Hulk.

 

[Tony Stark]

I don't think there's a conspiracy, but that doesn't mean individual critics don't push the Rotten button because of several factors - including how hyped the film is.

X-Men didn't really deal with anything serious. You can say it dealt with minorities, but it did it very differently in an unbelievable and popcorn fashion. I enjoyed the first two (actually liked most of Last Stand too).

But there always is a question for any viewer as to what their expectation were coming in. Just by reading the reviews themselves, you can tell the problem with most of the critics is the critics themselves - they had bad expectations.

Many of them wished Superman would quip more one liners and that's the reason why it got a lukewarm review. That the Robert Downey effect. But that's not Superman. If you want a Superman movie with zingers then you're setting yourself up to not enjoy it.

Too much action? Avengers didn't have too much? If you didn't criticize Avengers for action a year ago then you're being inconsistent as a critic. Maybe because Avengers didn't ask them to deal with more serious subject matter?

But I saw similar things with some of the lukewarm reviews of Into Darkness too. Those alleged "plot holes" that many critics attacked were not plot holes at all. Indeed, if you actually pay attention to the movie, you understand where it's coming from.

I just find it funny that a lot of these critics get paid for their opinions, even though their opinions are often out of line with a lot of the public at large. Shouldn't they care more about how the public will view the film than the lens they see it through?

There's a combination of things at work here. Superhero fatigue - maybe a bit. Marketing fatigue - probably wouldn't surprise me if some critics lash out because of the marketing effort. Dislike of movies that try to make superheroes relatable (again, Batman is not super).

Yet this is all imposing the critic's outside perspective on the review instead of letting the movie speak for itself. And it doesn't just go for Man Of Steel. You may find critics that may agree with a film's political outlook call it fresh while they knock down one they disagree with. But do those political opinions matter inside the film? I know I can watch a film and enjoy it even if it may portray something I disagree with because I can separate my opinions from the film and enjoy it on its own merits.

A lot of these critics cannot.

Here are the top 10 movies for last week

The Purge: Critics 38% Audience 43%

Fast and Furious: Critics 72% Audience 87%

Now You See Me: Critics 47% Audience 75%

The Internship: Critics 33% Audience 69%

Epic: Critics 62% Audience 67%

Star Trek Into Darkness: Critics 87% Audience 92%

After Earth: Critics 11% Audience 46%

The Hangover Part III Critics 20% Audience 48%

Iron Man 3: Critics 78% Audience 83%

The Great Gatsby: Critics 50% Audience 70%


So in all but 3 cases the critics and the audience for the most part agreed. Now MoS could well be one of those "exception to the rules" movies. In fact I'd probably say it will be, but we don't know yet.

However the idea that critics are vastly out of line with the general audience is a false notion. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in most cases, while the percentages may be off a bit, the general audience and critics usually agree.

 

[Ozymandias]

When Supes reached on his chest and threw the Super-holagram at Non my girl BUSTED OUT LAUGHING. "That was the most ridiculous thing I have EVER seen!"

Yeah, real nice. I turned to her and said "..now do you see why he needs to be takin' more seriously?"

[YT]aV4CqelFTlA[/YT]

 

[macphisto96]

Sure sounds like he is.

He's not, but he tries to balance his own views with that of his audience. I've talked to him about it before. He realizes he needs to see it beyond his own opinions.

He also takes time to think about it if he can. They didn't rush a review out right at the embargo. He thinks about what he writes.

That's ultimately why I trust him more than any other critic. I know how he reviews. He doesn't give out As to films lightly. Usually if a film is more than just fun - if it has another angle going for it. Gave Gatsby a B+ too. There are a lot of Bs and B+s.

I think the only two comic movies he's given As to are Man Of Steel and The Dark Knight. Gave Superman Returns a B-. Batman Begins a B (major complaint was the too tight action shots and the long wait for Batman to show up, but still liked it).

 

[Tim_Riggins]

Great post by Mcphisto, fact is, you don't know what goes on a critic's head, he could be biased against the movie in advance, he could be setting himself to love it, maybe he's pissed when he sees the movie, maybe he expects something specific, and is pissed when he doesnt get it.

Tons of parameters in place, fact is critics are paid to do this, we are not, and that makes the whole difference.