The Dark Knight To those who think Nolan -doesn't- get "it".

I don't think I misunderstood anything or wrote anything incorrectly. You can continue using my statements all you want but the fact is that I never doubted what was in the movie. I know this movie follows more of the Batman history more than anything else. I never doubted what was in the movie, or that Nolan can't direct this movie or the next, I only hoped to see things differently. It's my opinion, and last time I checked I'm allowed to have an opinion in a room that is "To those who think Nolan -doesn't- get it." The movie was good, no doubt, I only wish things were filmed different for my tastes. I personally don't like the cape clips, the fighting scenes, or the way the car looks but I don't think that deserves my ass handed to me. Everyone is trying so hard to sound educated and throw around Batman knowledge that they may be missing the opinion factor of the room. Everything that people are trying to state why I'm wrong, which I can't be on an opinion, is pointless because nothing is going to change that fact that I personally like one thing over the next. Last time I checked the room was for stating things that you may not have liked about Nolan's Begins, that is why I'm here. If you wanted to praise him find a board that has the title "To those who think Nolan - does- get it." The more you try and make me look wrong the more you make me find fault with Begins and it's fans. Again, it's my opinion to do that as well. My suggestion is to go back and discuss Begins and how fans would have made it better, if you can't do that find another board.
 
I think the reason people are having a problem with "your opinion" is because thats all you have stated. This is a discussion board. What was it about the things you disliked that made you dislike them? How would you have changed it?

Basically you just keep posting "I dont like cheese" and people keep asking why and you keep saying "its my opinion, asking why is rude, I dont like cheese because I just dont like it."

This is a forum, people come here to discuss their differences and, most importantly, their opinions not just to state them.
Youre asking people to go back and discuss Begins and how fans can make it better yet you arent discussing anything. Youre just stating your opinion.

Nobody is disagreeing with you for your opinion they are just trying to start a discussion from it. No one is trying to hand your ass to you either.
If you dont want to discuss your opinions why state them in a forum and complain when people ask you about them?
 
7Hells

I would totally agree with you if that was all that I was doing. In previous posts I have stated my opinion and others have bluntly said that what I thought was wrong or that I didn't know Batman material. I figured if that was the way people were going to respond to my opinions than it is pointless to keep mentioning them and remind them that I'm allowed to belive differently then they do. I have written that I like Begins but I would change some things to suit my needs. For example, I don't like the cape clips, if there were a better way to attach the cape to the suit I'm all for it which is why I like 89 more. The tumbler is a tank, it's a great machine but not what I want for a Batmobile. Now if they change it or modify it for the next movie I may like it some more. Also, the way the action was filmed was not to my liking. I'm a hardcore martial artist and action fan and would prefer to watch a fight scene where I can see what is going on. For me, and maybe I'm weird, but I enjoy 89 over Begins. It may not have the story correct but I like the art deco look, the costume, the car, and I related more to Keaton's character, it made me think he was more psychologically damaged. I have mentioned this in pervious postings but others would just quote what they read on the internet and try to prove me, and other like me, wrong. That is why I went wrote the word opinion too many times in the last post. Whomever likes Begins over 89, or 89 over Begins should be allowed to write it without having to defend it every single time. My only problem would be if people tried to say Batman and Robin were better than 89 or Begins, then I may become one of those bashers that don't like what they don't agree with.
 
Well Macleod, i'm not trying to run you off of hype. Nobody is ganging upon you, or trying to hand you your ass. In fact, I left you alone up until your comments regarding Nolan in relation to fan perspective. You did actually say "People have to stop blindly following the beliefe Nolan is great just because the movie is great." That was where I disagreed with you. Otherwise, i've had no real problem with you or your opinion. You are okay to have the opinion that Nolan isn't great, or even a good director. But to say that people are blindly following him, is a more factual statement, than an opinionated one. I merely provided the reason why the comic community (in particular Batman fans) have chosen to rally behind Nolan. Anyways, don't take it personally. Debates are common ground here on the hype...and you are bound to get into lenghty ones at some point. As long as you remember that we are all comic book fans...then you can walk away neutral or feeling better, even if it was a knock down, drag out, debate. It's rarely anything personal when people disagree on these forums.
 
signs Nolan doesn't "get it"

He made Flass a fat slob.

He put Rachel Dawes in the movie instead of Harvey Dent. wtf?

He made the action scenes confusing and useless.

He didn't make Batman nearly smart enough. There's little indication that he will become the worlds greatest detective.

He made Ras Al Ghul look like the one who gave Batman most of his crimefighting abilities. In other words, it seems Al Ghul spoon feeds Bruce into becoming Batman instead of showing Bruce Wayne combining his world travels to become the greatest crime fighter in the world himself.

He burned down Wayne Manor.

Batman still can barely turn his damn head bacause of yet another crappy rubber costume.

He didn't have the sense to use Elfman's iconic theme. What a waste.

His Bat-symbol looks rust-stained crap.

He gave Batman a love interest in his early years. Batman doesn't care about chicks, especially in his early years.

and that stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
blind_fury said:
signs Nolan doesn't "get it"

He made Flass a fat slob.

He put Rachel Dawes in the movie instead of Harvey Dent. wtf?

He made the action scenes confusing and useless.

He didn't make Batman nearly smart enough. There's little indication that he will become the worlds greatest detective.

He made Ras Al Ghul look like the one who gave Batman most of his crimefighting abilities. In other words, it seems Al Ghul spoon feeds Bruce into becoming Batman instead of showing Bruce Wayne combining his world travels to become the greatest crime fighter in the world himself.

He burned down Wayne Manor.

Batman still can barely turn his damn head bacause of yet another crappy rubber costume.

He didn't have the sense to use Elfman's iconic theme. What a waste.

His Bat-symbol looks rust-stained crap.

He gave Batman a love interest in his early years. Batman doesn't care about chicks, especially in his early years.

and that stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.


I was thinking the same thing. Good movie but there are things that I would like to have seen better.
 
blind_fury said:
signs Nolan doesn't "get it"

He made Flass a fat slob.

I can give you that one. I was also sad to see that Gordon didn't pound the crap out of him. However, I can understand the choice. Flass is a dislikable character in the Year One book, so Nolan took that angle, and made him unlikable physically and socially, by turning him into the personification of greed (Fat and a petty thief that abuses his position). There isn't nearly enough movie time to both introduce Batman in depth, and then go into side stories, like Jim's struggle as the only good cop on the force, at the time. I think they did a good job of that however, when Flass said that everybody was afraid of Jim being a rat.

He put Rachel Dawes in the movie instead of Harvey Dent. wtf?

But Harvey will be in the next film. I believe Rachel is merely used as a movie foil. By now, nobody should ever expect direct use of source material, in a major motion picture. Too many difficulties, including time restraints and common movie themes/vehicles. But Harvey will be present. She wasn't even a DA...only an assistant DA...so the comparison is some what mute. It is obvious that the DA in this movie, was murdered, to introduce Harvey Dent.

He made the action scenes confusing and useless.

I'll give you this one. Most fight scenes with Bruce in the suit, did utilize a lot of cut away shots. However, I think his intention, was to show that Batman is quick and mysterious. There was the whole emphasis on the aspect of a ninja and invisibility. A ninja wouldn't make their presence known, with boisterous, comic bookish battles. So I understand the reasoning, even if I don't like the approach.

He didn't make Batman nearly smart enough. There's little indication that he will become the worlds greatest detective.

The movie is called Batman BEGINS. He wasn't the world's best anything, when he first started out...not even detetcive. Dark Victory (which occurs sometime during year three...after Year One, and The Long Halloween, which itself was a year long story in comic book time) clearly illustrates this, when it is a pre-Robin, Dick Grayson, that figures out, who Hangman is. In fact, Bruce and Alfred had an entnire dialogue on how Batman has to be infalliable, yet isn't, which caused Bruce to get more pissed off, becuase he couldn't solve the case. Also take note, that in Year One, Bruce nearly died on his first outting, after being stabbed by a hooker, and shot by the police. Batman BECOMES the world's greatest detective. He didn't start that way. So I think Batman did just fine in the film.

He made Ras Al Ghul look like the one who gave Batman most of his crimefighting abilities. In other words, it seems Al Ghul spoon feeds Bruce into becoming Batman instead of showing Bruce Wayne combining his world travels to become the greatest crime fighter in the world himself.

I'll agree that there was no mention of Lady Shiva or other martial artists that influenced Bruce, but the idea is there, that he spent the majority of his time, traveling the world, and fighting thugs in prisons, and training. He spent at best, 6 months, to one year, out of the 8 in which Bruce Wayne was "missing", training with Ras. That hardly accounts for making it seem like he gave him all of his training. He merely refined it. It just so happens that much of the emphasis is brought upon Ras. Which I can agree, wasn't the most accurate portrayal...and thus, can be deemd disagreeable.

He burned down Wayne Manor.

That is utterly inconsequential since Bruce rebuilds Wayne manor on the same grounds. Also take note, that Nolan borrowed from Frank Millers interpretations of Batman, without restraint of continuity. So there are themes from The Dark Knight Returns (which is the current and pop culture rendition of Batman) which made there way into this film, including the Tumbler Batmobile, and the destruction of Wayne manner.

Batman still can barely turn his damn head bacause of yet another crappy rubber costume.

While I agree that big cape clips do not match the motif of his suit, the existence of the suit is otherwise, well explained. it's a Kevlar mesh body armor...not a "rubber suit" (in terms of the story, not it's hollywood aesthetic). In the Batman books, we see him in tights, with well defined muscles, even though he is known to wear Kevlar vests, a lead lined mask, combat boots, and has all kinds of circutry wired into both his mask (as shown in the movie) and suit. Frankly, Nolan took the best route for both a suit that works in a film, and actually portaying how Batman would probably look in the books, if his costume were taken more literally. Because in all honesty, Batman wouldn't look like he does, if you put a real human in a cape, cowl, and tights, and threw in even 70% of the stuff that Batman actually has on.

He didn't have the sense to use Elfman's iconic theme. What a waste.

He didn't use it, because this movie is not a part of the previous series, in any way. Why would he use that theme, when this is clearly not related to those films? On this one, i'm not going to reason out...i'm just going to say you are flat out wrong.

His Bat-symbol looks rust-stained crap.

It's all black and raised almost like a silk screen print. Since when has rust, been black?

He gave Batman a love interest in his early years. Batman doesn't care about chicks, especially in his early years.

Umm...Selina Kyle in The Long Halloween, which was basically Year One. He pursued her as Bruce, and sort of did the same while he was Batman and she was Catwoman. In fact, Bruce was steadily dating, just her, for the first half of the book. So yeah...you're just flat wrong again.

and that stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.

It seems your Ice Berg is far from the submerged behemoth that you think...
 
I understand the ninja thing where he wouldn't be seen during a fight, but it would be nice to see a real fight never the less. Wouldn't he be somewhat equally matched with other ninja's, couldn't we have seen a better fight scene there?
 
I agree and disagree with certain aspects:

I can give you that one. I was also sad to see that Gordon didn't pound the crap out of him. However, I can understand the choice. Flass is a dislikable character in the Year One book, so Nolan took that angle, and made him unlikable physically and socially, by turning him into the personification of greed (Fat and a petty thief that abuses his position). There isn't nearly enough movie time to both introduce Batman in depth, and then go into side stories, like Jim's struggle as the only good cop on the force, at the time. I think they did a good job of that however, when Flass said that everybody was afraid of Jim being a rat.

- It would have taken a thing to make him like BYO Flass. Without even making him fight Gordon. But the ol' glutton disgusting fat guy again...

But Harvey will be in the next film. I believe Rachel is merely used as a movie foil. By now, nobody should ever expect direct use of source material, in a major motion picture. Too many difficulties, including time restraints and common movie themes/vehicles. But Harvey will be present. She wasn't even a DA...only an assistant DA...so the comparison is some what mute. It is obvious that the DA in this movie, was murdered, to introduce Harvey Dent.

Sadly, people still raise the voice about what was and what wasn't in comic. In rachel's case, she's too much of a movie tool. I bet if it was a good actress doing the role, things would be different.


I'll give you this one. Most fight scenes with Bruce in the suit, did utilize a lot of cut away shots. However, I think his intention, was to show that Batman is quick and mysterious. There was the whole emphasis on the aspect of a ninja and invisibility. A ninja wouldn't make their presence known, with boisterous, comic bookish battles. So I understand the reasoning, even if I don't like the approach.

Then I must ask, why in Bruce's fight (at the beginning when he's not even ninja-trained) and Tumbler's secquence are filmed in the same way.


The movie is called Batman BEGINS. He wasn't the world's best anything, when he first started out...not even detetcive. Dark Victory (which occurs sometime during year three...after Year One, and The Long Halloween, which itself was a year long story in comic book time) clearly illustrates this, when it is a pre-Robin, Dick Grayson, that figures out, who Hangman is. In fact, Bruce and Alfred had an entnire dialogue on how Batman has to be infalliable, yet isn't, which caused Bruce to get more pissed off, becuase he couldn't solve the case. Also take note, that in Year One, Bruce nearly died on his first outting, after being stabbed by a hooker, and shot by the police. Batman BECOMES the world's greatest detective. He didn't start that way. So I think Batman did just fine in the film.

Sure. In fact somewhere I said I saw the detective angle in 3 bat-movies since 1989.


I'll agree that there was no mention of Lady Shiva or other martial artists that influenced Bruce, but the idea is there, that he spent the majority of his time, traveling the world, and fighting thugs in prisons, and training. He spent at best, 6 months, to one year, out of the 8 in which Bruce Wayne was "missing", training with Ras. That hardly accounts for making it seem like he gave him all of his training. He merely refined it. It just so happens that much of the emphasis is brought upon Ras. Which I can agree, wasn't the most accurate portrayal...and thus, can be deemd disagreeable.

As showed in the movie he was the only significant mentor. And as they showed the Bruce's trip, they could have shown some other faces in a rapid secquence.


That is utterly inconsequential since Bruce rebuilds Wayne manor on the same grounds. Also take note, that Nolan borrowed from Frank Millers interpretations of Batman, without restraint of continuity. So there are themes from The Dark Knight Returns (which is the current and pop culture rendition of Batman) which made there way into this film, including the Tumbler Batmobile, and the destruction of Wayne manner.

What I regret is that even if he builds an exact replica, it won't have the old furniture and memories, the old grandfather clock or the Wayne's old books and photographies.


While I agree that big cape clips do not match the motif of his suit, the existence of the suit is otherwise, well explained. it's a Kevlar mesh body armor...not a "rubber suit" (in terms of the story, not it's hollywood aesthetic). In the Batman books, we see him in tights, with well defined muscles, even though he is known to wear Kevlar vests, a lead lined mask, combat boots, and has all kinds of circutry wired into both his mask (as shown in the movie) and suit. Frankly, Nolan took the best route for both a suit that works in a film, and actually portaying how Batman would probably look in the books, if his costume were taken more literally. Because in all honesty, Batman wouldn't look like he does, if you put a real human in a cape, cowl, and tights, and threw in even 70% of the stuff that Batman actually has on.

You know, I never even thought about the neck thing until someone came and said it.


He didn't use it, because this movie is not a part of the previous series, in any way. Why would he use that theme, when this is clearly not related to those films? On this one, i'm not going to reason out...i'm just going to say you are flat out wrong.

But then again, why did Nolan kept the black rubber suit - quite similar to the old ones - if it's not the same franchise.
 
Why does the burning of Wayne Manor bother anybody?? I mean....it's going to be rebuilt...EXACTLY the same as before....so, what's the beef?
 
To show that Bruce did in fact give a damn about his legacy and his family name.

And, most importantly, to show how he had changed and become the optimist we all know him to be. Didn't you see how he said he'd rebuild it, brick for brick? It's just as important (even moreso) than his line with Gordon "we'll find a way, we'll bring Gotham back".

It symbolizes Bruce and Batman's rise into the man that will never stop fighting for Gotham, and never give up....it's why the line "why do we fall?" is a constant theme. Bruce is constantly knocked down, but he continues to get up.....and the destruction, and rebuilding of Wayne Manor is a symbol of his never ending hope, drive and will to save Gotham.

That's why they did it.
 
That is acceptable. But... by the same token, when one looks at the manor in the next two Nolan movies, they will think (or at least I will think this, for a few seconds):

"That is the only interpretation of Batman where he doesn't truly live in the same manor as his parents did. That is ... Wayne Manor 2.0. So Batman, in his glory days, following Nolan's logic, doesn't even live in his parents' home."


That in itself doesn't even matter, really. BUT it is an interesting thought, nonetheless. Your explanation of the 'why' of destroying WM1.0 is actually very nice. I like it.
 
At that point, i'll just call that grevious nitpicking for the sake of finding fault in the film, rather than allowing yourself to actually enjoy the film. No comic book movie, will ever take every last line and scene from a comic story. That just won't happen. The reason being, is that comic books are different from television, just as they are different from movies. There are certain things that are merely a convetion to films, that aren't always necessary to a comic book. What action movie have you seen, where there wasn't some sort of love relationship? Luke Skywalker had Pincess Lea (or however the hell you spell it). X-Men had the Jean/Logan/Scott love triangle. Action movies demand an antagonist, a protagonist and a love interest. That is just there way. So while Rachel was never in the books, and such a character foil is unnecessary in a comic book, it goes against the nature of most modern films in this genre (not comics, but action movies). The process and requirements are never the same, for any two mediums of entertainment, no matter how close they seem. So either enjoy the movies more, or just avoid them. I can understand pissing all over fan expectation (Superman Returns)....but when a movie delivers on the major basis, you have to let the small stuff slide, or you will never learn to actually have fun.
 
ChrisBaleBatman said:
Why does the burning of Wayne Manor bother anybody?? I mean....it's going to be rebuilt...EXACTLY the same as before....so, what's the beef?

I'll quote myself.
El Payaso said:
What I regret is that even if he builds an exact replica, it won't have the old furniture and memories, the old grandfather clock or the Wayne's old books and photographies.

It's simply not the same. It's like they kill Bruce Wayne and he's replaced by a guy that looks exactly like him and use the same bat-suit. Simply not the same.

Even so, I appreciate Nolan's way to symbolize how Bruce burnt out his fears and his past with the manor destroyed and him blocking off the well. So, it was weird for me but good at the end.

LordofHypertime said:
That is acceptable. But... by the same token, when one looks at the manor in the next two Nolan movies, they will think (or at least I will think this, for a few seconds):

"That is the only interpretation of Batman where he doesn't truly live in the same manor as his parents did. That is ... Wayne Manor 2.0. So Batman, in his glory days, following Nolan's logic, doesn't even live in his parents' home."

That in itself doesn't even matter, really. BUT it is an interesting thought, nonetheless. Your explanation of the 'why' of destroying WM1.0 is actually very nice. I like it.

That's the way I think. But back in 1989 I had to acceopt the Waynes' killer wasn't Joe Cjhill but the Joker and, after the first impression, I kept the good aspects of a big change.
 
Exactly. You have to accept the conventions of films. If you want movies for comic fans, I suggest sticking to fan films, which largely follow the plots of the books, nearly to a T (such as Lobo's Paramillitary Christmas Special...although it was missing the knife fight). Comic book films in hollywood, have to appeal to more than those of us nerds and light weights, that actually read these books. It has to appeal to a mass audience, who don't have time for the over elaborate back history that most comic characters have. And even if the film did, most movie watchers could care less. Why do you think most of the Batman films avoid Robin, or pervert characters. Burton had Joker as the killer of Bruce's parents and he made Harvey Dent Black. They had Chase Merridian or whatever her name was in Batman Forever...and she actually knew Batman's identity. Yet, nobody really *****es about that. I could ***** about Spider-Man 1&2 for various reasons. Dropping MJ off the bridge, introducing Gwen too late into the story as a love interest for Peter, since he dated her before MJ. Making Harry the Hobgoblin etc etc. But you know why I don't? Because i'd never enjoy a comic book movie, if I spent all of my time scrutinizing it for what it isn't, rather than accepting it for what it is. That doesn't mean go and accept crap like making Cogliostro into Medieval Spawn, or giving Superman a bastard child...but if small elements change, while retaining the spirit of the original idea (such as joker replacing Joe Chill, even though the idea of Bruces parents being murdered, remains in tact), then who cares. Just enjoy the movie...
 
That is acceptable. But... by the same token, when one looks at the manor in the next two Nolan movies, they will think (or at least I will think this, for a few seconds):

"That is the only interpretation of Batman where he doesn't truly live in the same manor as his parents did. That is ... Wayne Manor 2.0. So Batman, in his glory days, following Nolan's logic, doesn't even live in his parents' home."


That in itself doesn't even matter, really. BUT it is an interesting thought, nonetheless. Your explanation of the 'why' of destroying WM1.0 is actually very nice. I like it.

Well, there certainly are nostaglic values that would go along with the Mansion. But, really....the Mansion itself is what matters. I know the things inside are important, but I think that as long as the Mansion is still where it's at.....I'm cool with it.

I mean, I think it would be a footnote, kinda with some other family houses where a fire may have burned it down but it was rebuilt and it's still seen as the family house. I think we can do the same with Wayne Manor.

To tell the truth, if the reason for it hadn't been there....and it had just been burned down for no reason. Trust me. I'd been pissed. But, as long as there's a purpose to it.....I'm fine.

It's simply not the same. It's like they kill Bruce Wayne and he's replaced by a guy that looks exactly like him and use the same bat-suit. Simply not the same.

Even so, I appreciate Nolan's way to symbolize how Bruce burnt out his fears and his past with the manor destroyed and him blocking off the well. So, it was weird for me but good at the end.

I can understand your gripe, but.....after seeing lots of interpretations of Bruce's future......and how he ends up. Wheter it's Kingdom Come, or Batman Beyond......I've grown to learn that what's inside the manor doesn't really matter to him much. There are some things, like the portrait of his parents and the grandfather clock (which, can actually be put into the new version of the Mansion now), but.....his real home is the Batcave.

I'm not saying that's the way it is in the movie, but in the comics and cartoons...I've sort of seen how Batman is the dominant personality and it kinda shows in how he does feel about the Mansion itself and what's inside of it.

I do agree, there are some good and bad to it. But, I'm with you...in the end....I think the good out weighs the bad.

That's the way I think. But back in 1989 I had to acceopt the Waynes' killer wasn't Joe Cjhill but the Joker and, after the first impression, I kept the good aspects of a big change.

Interesting, I think I get what your saying. I'll say I probably feel the exact same way about Superman Returns and how some MAJOR changes did impact the film, and how I do focus on the good parts of it.

I mean, they're films....they cannot be exact copies of the comics, otherwise....why would the director even want to do the film, short of being the Ultimate Fanboy, ya know?
 
I would actually give my opinion if I knew what the point of this thread was.
 
blind_fury said:
signs Nolan doesn't "get it"

He made Flass a fat slob.

Flass is an amalgamation of Flass and Bullock.

He put Rachel Dawes in the movie instead of Harvey Dent. wtf?

Goyer did that. Nolan gets it, Goyer doesn't IMO. Besides, she wont be back.

He made the action scenes confusing and useless.

Agreed. He did it purposely but it sucked.

He didn't make Batman nearly smart enough. There's little indication that he will become the worlds greatest detective.

Eh. Bruce did manage to enlist the help of Commisioner Gordon. It is kinda hard to find a good cop in Gotham. Besides he's a rookie in this film, he didn't exactly study criminology in the Himalayas.

He made Ras Al Ghul look like the one who gave Batman most of his crimefighting abilities. In other words, it seems Al Ghul spoon feeds Bruce into becoming Batman instead of showing Bruce Wayne combining his world travels to become the greatest crime fighter in the world himself.

Bruce did kick the asses of everybody who was trying to butt rape him in prison and he barely broke a sweat. Ra's just sort of gave him a push in the right direction.

He burned down Wayne Manor.

So what?

Batman still can barely turn his damn head bacause of yet another crappy rubber costume.

The costume is a work in progress. The Begins suit was far more flexible than the others.

He didn't have the sense to use Elfman's iconic theme. What a waste.

It had nothing to do with either Burtonverse or TAS. It would've created too much confusion. But Elfman's score did pwn Howard/Zimmer's.

His Bat-symbol looks rust-stained crap.

All the better for it.

He gave Batman a love interest in his early years. Batman doesn't care about chicks, especially in his early years.

What love was there? The kiss at the end? Yeah and? Racheal was his only childhood friend as if he wouldn't go outof his way to save her.

and that stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.

Aside from problems with thematics (Which where good but out of place with Batman) and what I've mentioned. I see no other problem. Infact it's not even an ice cube.

El Payaso said:
I bet if it was a good actress doing the role, things would be different.

Doubtfull. Katie Holmes wasn't that bad. It's more her character that people dislike.

But then again, why did Nolan kept the black rubber suit - quite similar to the old ones - if it's not the same franchise.

Because nobody would take the Dead End costume seriously.
 
dude love said:
Because nobody would take the Dead End costume seriously.

Don't go and tell me there are 2 ways in this universe to make a bat-suit.
 
A black suit is more conducive of the idea that he is a fear inducing mystery. Batman's actual costume colors, albeit dark ones, are vivid enough in real life. Grey and blue aren't exactly going to mask you as well as an all black suit. Secondly, in the first Batman movies, the suits were clearly rubber, for no reason. In this film, he sports kevlar body armor, combined with some of his ninja equipment from Ras, as well as graphite masks for the cowl, in order to provide durability. That is why this suit is a little more bulky. It is also loaded with the technology, actually present in the comic books (such as the glider cape and the communicator antenna in the horns of the cowl). I really don't see why the Batman Begins suit bothers anybody. It's better than the blue/grey outfit from Batman and Robin...and it doesn't have the bright yellow shield of the Tim Burton Batman movie (though I still like that suit).
 
dude love said:
Eh. Bruce did manage to enlist the help of Commisioner Gordon. It is kinda hard to find a good cop in Gotham. Besides he's a rookie in this film, he didn't exactly study criminology in the Himalayas.
That's the problem. Batman studied criminology long before he became Batman. He was preparing to become the world's greatest detective since he was a boy. While other superheros were playing spin the bottle Bruce Wayne was learning escape techniques from magicians and forensics from retired detectives. That's what makes Batman the best crimefighter in the world. He has perfected most of his skills in crimefighting since he was boy LONG before he meets Ras Al Ghul or becomes Batman. Even as a rookie he's better than the guys you see on CSI. They've been studying crime for 4 or 6 years in a college classroom. Bruce Wayne has been studying far more advanced concepts since he was a child without spring breaks or lazy Sundays. By his first night out as Batman he understands criminal element far better than most retired cops.

Bruce did kick the asses of everybody who was trying to butt rape him in prison and he barely broke a sweat. Ra's just sort of gave him a push in the right direction.
No. The movie shows Ras Al Ghul as Batmans only mentor. There is little to no indication of Bruce Wayne's crimefighting studies from other sources. The movie makes Ras Al Ghul central to Bruce becoming Batman and that's simply an insult to Batman fans. It looks like Bruce know how to streetfight then thanks to Ras Al Ghul he learns the majority of skills he'll need to become Batman. That's a major disservice to the character. Bruce Wayne learns to be Batman from dozens of varied, specialized sources spread throughout the world. It takes alot more than ninja mysticism and a big bank account to become Batman.

The costume is a work in progress. The Begins suit was far more flexible than the others.
It still looks cumbersome. Batman doesn't look like he is able to do acrobatic moves or move quickly. No amount of armor is going to save Batman if he can't move gracefully.
 
Well, it's obvious that Bruce is well trained in martial arts by the time Ra's finds him. By the skill he displays at the prison, it's obvious he's been at this for at least a few years, and nothing to indicate that he has NOT trained himself in other skills like escapism and detection. Ra's has not been his only teacher, just the last.
 
Yeah. We even see him display his skills against Ra's.....after going for a mountain hike, of course.

Essentially, the way it was shown.....Bruce had the skills and enough knowledge. He just lacked the direction of which to focus on. It's why he even considered joing the league of shadows......b/c he was so lost. Really, he didn't actually discover his destiny until the League asked him to kill.

It was in that moment, he learned exactly what he needs to do with his skills and knowledge. He figured out exactly how he could put them to use.

And....plus....he spent 7 years traveling the world. I hardly think he spent most of that time with the League. It just does exactly what the comics have done for decades. Leave much of his time he spent away from Gotham shrouded in mystery.

Btw, I must agree with Payaso. I really really think that if Rachel had been played by a different actress, people would have been okay with it. Holmes probably would not have gotten flammed at all (b/c her acting wasn't bad....it was rather good actually), but.....we have to face facts. Her massive world attention from her entire thing with Tom Cruise had an impact on it. She got a ****ing razzie. A ****ing razzie, for her job. Are you kidding me? Your going to tell me she was actually worse than Jessica Simpson (and her massive **** as supporting actresses as well...although, they did fine work)? Perception is important, especially when it comes to films. If people don't like someone, they'll find ways to hate they'll perfomances as well. I think that was the case with Holmes. She didn't do great....but she didn't do nearly as horrible as everyone claims. Rachel was actually a pretty good character. If she'd been played by....I dunno....Jennifer Connelly....I think many people would have felt differently about the character.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"