Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 2

I'm one of those who absolutely loves the direction of ideas DC's films are going and is extremely happy they didn't go in the Marvel direction of cookie-cutter, formulaic writing that seems to work so well with audiences. In my opinion, the frustration is derived from that BvS and SS seem to be movies that could have been great but weren't. The ideas are fantastic, but presented quite poorly. I think they just need to be more clever and careful about how these characters are going to go about things (example: the "Martha" scene or Superman not saving his dad in that tornado - all silly reasons).

I think it should be kept in mind that DC and Marvel characters are only similar for superficial reasons such as their being superheroes or written in a comic book. The nature of their characters and comics have developed in different directions and should be treated as such. I really enjoy the symbolism, political themes and character psyches presented in the DC films, but the surface things like directing, pacing and some of the acting need work IMO.
 
They shouldn't have put the hands of the DCEU in Snyder.
 
I was thinking about the Deadpool movie the other day and it occurred to me that Ryan Reynolds has done what no other CBM actor has done. He starred as both completely unfaithful and a completely faithful versions of the same character. And as we know, the reasoning behind this in the movie is that Wolverine went back and changed the timeline in X-Men: DOFP, which gave us the big Mega Happy Ending for mutants.

It makes me wonder... should they attempt to do something similar with the DCEU? They've already introduced the concept of time travel, and we've seen Barry Allen already attempt to alter history. Maybe they should play up the angle in JL that "something isn't right with the world" and should mess with the timeline and reset everything, giving us a more hopeful world with a Superman who is more proactive, a Batman who isn't a psychopath, etc. I don't know. I doubt anything like this will happen, but it might be a good thing if it did.
 
^I wonder how big of a bullet Reynolds feels he dodged by getting a win with Deadpool over GN?
 
I was thinking about the Deadpool movie the other day and it occurred to me that Ryan Reynolds has done what no other CBM actor has done. He starred as both completely unfaithful and a completely faithful versions of the same character. And as we know, the reasoning behind this in the movie is that Wolverine went back and changed the timeline in X-Men: DOFP, which gave us the big Mega Happy Ending for mutants.

It makes me wonder... should they attempt to do something similar with the DCEU? They've already introduced the concept of time travel, and we've seen Barry Allen already attempt to alter history. Maybe they should play up the angle in JL that "something isn't right with the world" and should mess with the timeline and reset everything, giving us a more hopeful world with a Superman who is more proactive, a Batman who isn't a psychopath, etc. I don't know. I doubt anything like this will happen, but it might be a good thing if it did.

That's like using a jackhammer where a needle is needed. It's incredibly simple to return Superman, Batman, Lex-enburg, etc to their true selves just with the natural flow of the story. Superman comes back with a new look on life, the events of BvS & Justice League turn Bruce away from his dark path, and prison hardens Lex into a cold, calculating mastermind.
 
Getting back to the root topic of the thread, I think part of DC's problem is there is not one clear vision of how its universe should evolve.

thing is they do a great job with there animated movies better than marvel but live action they dont get it
 
They shouldn't have put the hands of the DCEU in Snyder.

This is the problem. The man is a hack director. I can't even stand how his films like visually. I didn't see BVS because of Snyder and MOS (and everything I heard about it kept me away). I'm going to skip Justice League as well and probably won't see a DCU film until Ben Affleck's Batman movie.
 
..a Batman who isn't a psychopath, etc..

..right.

Just tell me this has nothing to do with the 'killing', something he's done in every film but something the entire brightly colored avengers roster has done and continues to do. That would help.
At this point I'd rather it have something to do with dissension from source, though I imagine he's also said to be a psycho in the original material, kinda the point really.

imo, it's really the killers that do so with a smile on their face that you gotta look out for. But that's me.
 
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..right.

Just tell me this has nothing to do with the 'killing', something he's done in every film but something the entire brightly colored avengers roster has done and continues to do. That would help.
At this point I'd rather it have something to do with dissension from source, though I imagine he's also said to be a psycho in the original material, kinda the point really.

imo, it's really the killers that do so with a smile on their face that you gotta look out for. But that's me.

Yeah you can find exceptions. You can also find instances of sexism and racism if you look. Batman is not a killer. It's a key part of his character.

Just so you know, Batman killing in BVS completely destroys the core conflict between Red Hood and Batman. The iconic scene where they fight in front of Joker is ruined. Pretty sad really I was very excited about that possibility. Batman killing in BVS is so unnecessary and just messes things up

You also do realize that a masterpiece like TDK could never happen with this Batman. Joker can't drive Batman to break his one rule because he has already broken it.


I really can't believe people are defending Batman's killing. There are no upsides whatsoever. I care so little about their reasoning for his murderous ways I wish they would just ignore it and act like he didn't kill anyone
 
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Yeah you can find exceptions. You can also find instances of sexism and racism if you look. Batman is not a killer. It's a key part of his character.

Just so you know, Batman killing in BVS completely destroys the core conflict between Red Hood and Batman. The iconic scene where they fight in front of Joker is ruined. Pretty sad really I was very excited about that possibility. Batman killing in BVS is so unnecessary and just messes things up

You also do realize that a masterpiece like TDK could never happen with this Batman. Joker can't drive Batman to break his one rule because he has already broken it.


I really can't believe people are defending Batman's killing. There are no upsides whatsoever. I care so little about their reasoning for his murderous ways I wish they would just ignore it and act like he didn't kill anyone

It's a different take on the character than The Dark Knight. I'm not going to argue that BvS is a masterpiece like TDK, but I will say you don't have to have the same exact character development in a newer version of a movie to be considered a masterpiece. In all the decades upon decades of Batman comics, it's not like there are no stories of him killing and killing with a gun. Snyder's take on Batman is clearly a jaded, paranoid version.
 
Yeah you can find exceptions. You can also find instances of sexism and racism if you look. Batman is not a killer. It's a key part of his character.

Just so you know, Batman killing in BVS completely destroys the core conflict between Red Hood and Batman. The iconic scene where they fight in front of Joker is ruined. Pretty sad really I was very excited about that possibility. Batman killing in BVS is so unnecessary and just messes things up

You also do realize that a masterpiece like TDK could never happen with this Batman. Joker can't drive Batman to break his one rule because he has already broken it.


I really can't believe people are defending Batman's killing. There are no upsides whatsoever. I care so little about their reasoning for his murderous ways I wish they would just ignore it and act like he didn't kill anyone

A few things.

I find a terrible irony in your assertion that 'a masterpiece' like TDK couldn't be made with this batman. Like holding that films fate over my head lol. But yes ironic, for TDK was already made with a batman that stepped all over his supposed and supposedly integral no kill rule, even after BB at that, the film with maybe his biggest kill count outside of 89. I suppose even a hypocritical take on something that important is better than supposedly disregarding all together. Here's the thing, and something I wish all the so called purists would get straight, thus far this batman has been most faithful to that material you so very much desire for they didn't change a thing, they just added the stipulation that unlike the killing in all these prior movies, here is a batman that was actually driven past his breaking point. And elseworlds(as all movies are almost by definition) proposing what happens after the end of batman. That's the thing about context. If you have a story about batman in which he's brainwashed for 20 years to be darkseid's 'desaad' character, then when he does non batman like things you actually have in story context as to why, thus making it source accurate, rather making claims that he's not acting like batman...dumb. The trouble is as you yourself say, you don't give a damn about the in narrative anything, just that the end result is the same as what you want. It's nutz, and something I've seen in the important professional reviews as well.

This other part, about not getting to see this supposedly iconic scene you need to see. Sorry but you wanting more and more of comic stories or animations you've seen has nothing to do with reviewing the film in the here and now. Me not getting to see all the iconica that comes with Pym and his ultron is gone, Me not getting to see the iconic 'A stands for France' line, how's about I simply review the avengers for what it did do and not the stuff I want that it potentially won't do in some later film. Firstly there is an argument to be had as to whether those things I mentioned are even good(fans have their debates) just as they do all things jason todd. Secondly, would it be 'right' to then **** on all that is yielded and interesting about the new mcu because I think what some other writer did is demonstrably better or the best or the only way that's valid. no. Dear god Xmen first class..
And no, you actually still can have your scene, just have batman take back on his stance, especially now that a certain someone has rekindled his spark and mission and belief in men, I digress.

And lastly, yes we can find exceptions, we accept them as such. No reason why the movies can't also be seen as exceptions.

Anyways, my original post was actually about the use of the word 'psychopath'. I mean first this guy goes on about wanting stuff more like source(I have to assume that's where all that is coming from about superman), then asserts a batman that isn't this very thing he is often known for being or being close to in many of his celebrated material, is more source?
People use their preconceptions like the bible truly. Not only implying following the scripture is the best and only way to go forward but also in how they pick and choose what parts of the contracting scripture are indeed scripture. Batman especially in his older age can be crazy in the books, that's all.
Secondly, I have to assume all of this stems from the idea that batman is crazy in his need for blood and killing, to which I myself asserted that if shooting back at people who themselves are shooting 50cal and such machinery at you makes you a 'psychopath', then it sure as hell makes all the avengers the same or worse.

If only the header read, why can't dc fans get it right.
Have a good one.
 
Just so you know, Batman killing in BVS completely destroys the core conflict between Red Hood and Batman. The iconic scene where they fight in front of Joker is ruined. Pretty sad really I was very excited about that possibility. Batman killing in BVS is so unnecessary and just messes things up

Good. I don't want a Red Hood movie. But to be fair, no it doesn't. He doesn't kill now. So... Hell, the conflict would be even more intense since Batman did kill people, just not the guy that killed him. But eh, don't want another "I'm a vigilante that doesn't kill and you're a vigilante who does" story for a while.

You also do realize that a masterpiece like TDK could never happen with this Batman. Joker can't drive Batman to break his one rule because he has already broken it.

Good thing The Dark Knight has already been made with a Batman that The Dark Knight could be made with then.
 
He doesn't kill now.

That's really just speculation. He kills a whole pile of guys when he rescues Martha, after his moment of clarity.

At the very least, we can hope that he no longer kills people as a function of trying to assuage his own feelings of impotency. It's that motivation behind his actions that makes the killings so contentious among many fans--compared to, say, Batman killing in TDK, which was frustratingly illogical but felt less viscerally.
 
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The underlying thing regarding the killing is, for me, whether there exists a respect for upholding human life. BVS Batman just didn't give a damn. Bale's Batman did. He identified his rule that he would not be an executioner. But people died in his wake, either directly or indirectly because of him. Even if he doesn't always live up to it I'd rather have a Batman who aspires to not killing.

I would've loved BVS with a Bruce wrestling with whether or not he would cross the line and kill Superman. It would have made his inevitable decision not to more believable, more of a heroic moment. But there is no conflict in the film as it stands. He spends the whole movie dead set on icing Clark until, suddenly, he isn't.
 
For the most part, what we're seeing with the DCEU is a solid base. It's just unfortunately saddled with a couple of glaring missteps.
 
Nice to see Timm still have true believers after his recent statements and creative decisions.
 
Still don't get his fascination with Batgirl and Batman being a couple. Literally love everything else he does except for that
 
As someone who loves the DCEU so far I don't think they need to do anything to improve, just stay the course.
 
they always need to improve the craft, that's what creative people should do.
otherwise you will end up repeating your previous work over and over again.
 

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