Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 2

[Nemeres]

I could do without Bruce Timm. I haven't read/seen Dini's latest work in a while, but I'd be very open to Mr. Peace on Earth/War on Crime having some say.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

They have gotten it right.

they did. but that was 8 years ago. can they get it right again? for more than one movie?

 

[raimar]

IMHO, DC "SUITS" need to stay away from steering the movie in whatever direction they think it should go and, Instead, let the filmakers do the damn film/job. If you look at all the info and use it to conclude, these SUITS screwed the films, all of them. Clearly, different versions of all the movies, so far, were actually made and presented by the filmakers and later screwed to hell by WB, DC and some other SUITS to who knows what end. Certainly not quality. In Fact, i'm willing to bet Suicide Squad was slaughtered by critics, probably as a way to send a message: stop making films dear SUITS, let the filmakers do them or else..." It Just brutally blatant mingling from managers who clearly have no idea how to make films. I'm hoping Affleck willnot let them Direct, better things to come, hopefully.

 

[MbJ]

It depends. BVS was chopped to bits in the editing room, but I still didn't find the extended director's cut to be a particularly great movies. Sometimes directors and writers have bad ideas and need to be reigned in.

What they SHOULDN'T do is knee jerk reactionism like we got with Suicide Squad. The movie was already shot at that point. Hacking its balls off in the editing room after the negative response to BVS didn't help.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's not that Superman doesn't enjoy saving people, he's just bummed that there are some people out there questioning his heroics like those political analysts on TV. There are even those who fear and distrust Superman to the point where they want to kill him like Batman and Lex Luthor. That is what bothers Superman because he's not given any love or appreciation like he would in the Christopher Reeve films but instead, he's been given the "X-Men" treatment by the very people he's helping.

Why does he need everyone's love and appreciation to be Superman?

 

[sweetre15]

Why does he need everyone's love and appreciation to be Superman?

Well if he's Anything like the 80s Post crisis Superman, he often angsts about his place in the world and the world not loving him would make him feel like he hasn't lived up to being the symbol of hope he wants to be for the world

 

[Luke234]

They have gotten it right. If they go marvel campy it's all over.

 

[Luke234]

Well if he's Anything like the 80s Post crisis Superman, he often angsts about his place in the world and the world not loving him would make him feel like he hasn't lived up to being the symbol of hope he wants to be for the world

If you grew up where your only friends were your mom and dad and you misrepresented yourself to every other being for 33 years. Basically lied about who you were that would be heartbreaking and incredibly lonely. What you would want more than anything is acceptance. Everyone doesn't have to love him but if half the world hates you, after hiding for so long, saving the planet with horrible consequences, a human being would crave people's acceptance.

 

[Luke234]

I'm not sure what film you saw because BvS featured a contemplative Superman, but not an angry one. I remember him being much more short-tempered in "The Supergirl from Krypton" as he was being overprotective of Kara. Obviously, he's gone through many phases in 78 years worth of publication and he hasn't always been the grinning dork who gives impromptu lectures.

Batman, on the other hand, is an angry character at his very heart. Bruce Wayne's childhood outrage spawned his alter ego and his adult life has been fueled by that same fiery indignation. Yet he was translated into a lighthearted, goofy TV series to which people responded in the '60s and is still popular in some segments of Batman fandom today. If there is room in DC's history for something like West's Batman, there is certainly room for the more serious DCEU Superman.

Angry? I just didn't see that.

 

[Luke234]

Like that scene on the farm in Kansas. In the theatrical cut he doesn't say anything. We don't even really see him going there.

That video about Snyder only going for moments was right. But it resulted in what felt like a lot of half scenes in the movie. Like we only get half the scene and don't understand what's going on.

I think there's a lot of reasons DC can't it right or why they are seemingly constantly scrambling to course correct. I think that's the problem. All this is happening in the scramble to try and catch up with Marvel and have their own Avengers.

The vision and will wasn't there. They are simply reacting to another studio's success and trying to imitate it.

It's listening to haters that will get them in trouble. I admire Snyder for doubling down on the realism. It was never true that they were copying or playing catch up to marvel but it sounds like NOW they are with low blows thrown at Snyder.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

They have gotten it right. If they go marvel campy it's all over.

God I hope that doesn't happen...

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't think some of you understand the definition of "campy".

Preferring a more "serious" and "dark" approach to movies is fine, but that's a pretty odd standard for a cinematic universe full of heroes that have largely been optimistic and hopeful. It doesn't really make sense, and as the film makers have demonstrated, they don't really know how to make an approach work for a healthy majority of film-goers.

 

[Bats123]

I don't think some of you understand the definition of "campy".

Preferring a more "serious" and "dark" approach to movies is fine, but that's a pretty odd standard for a cinematic universe full of heroes that have largely been optimistic and hopeful. It doesn't really make sense, and as the film makers have demonstrated, they don't really know how to make an approach work for a healthy majority of film-goers.

They clearly understand what "campy" means, but they use it to describe Marvel cus they love trolling. Trolls gonna troll.
Now Batman and Robin, THAT'S campy...

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They have gotten it right.

The reviews and record box office drops say otherwise.

 

[The Joker]

It's listening to haters that will get them in trouble. I admire Snyder for doubling down on the realism. It was never true that they were copying or playing catch up to marvel but it sounds like NOW they are with low blows thrown at Snyder.

Snyder doubled down on the realism?

 

[TheVileOne]

It's listening to haters that will get them in trouble. I admire Snyder for doubling down on the realism. It was never true that they were copying or playing catch up to marvel but it sounds like NOW they are with low blows thrown at Snyder.

It's not "realism" that hurt the movies.

 

[Bats123]

Snyder doubled down on the realism?

that scene where Superman gets flinged around like a rag doll and when Wonder Woman uses her magical glowing whip to stop an alien monster are pretty realistic, man.

 

[Arach Knight]

The greatest issues facing the DC Comics movies are three-fold.

Warner Bros. Executives

The first problem is not unique to the DC Comics movies. Many movies have suffered because of the interference of studio-executives, such as The Amazing Spider-Man 2, F4ntastic, and X-Men Origins. Many studio executives are older, making them risk-adverse, and closed-off to content that is unfamiliar to them. Worse yet, many of these studio executives are obsequious in their pandering to shareholders. If a project doesn't seem like it will have mass appeal, or some easily marketable angle, then it will be hell to get said project greenlit, and even more hellish to keep the initial vision intact. It is public knowledge that the DCEU has suffered heavily from studio-intereference, especially when it comes to Batman v Superman, and Suicide Squad. If Warner Bros. executives don't learn to keep their distance, then we can expect future DCEU films to struggle to convey the intended vision as have BvM, and Suicide Squad.

A Lack of Confidence in Their Own Vision

The second problem is that Warner Bros. is too worried about critical consensus. The reaction from fans and the general audience has largely been favorable, in terms of reviews and revenue. Although no DCEU film has outgrossed an Avengers film, every DCEU film thus far has managed to outgross the bulk of Marvel's movies. Rather than take that fact in stride, and push forward, Warner Bros. opts to remain disappointed that their films habe yet to earn $1 billion (as if anything less than that figure is somehow unprofitable). While Warner Bros. is busy fretting over what the critics have to say, Universal churns out a "Bayformers" movie every couple of years and laughs all the way to the bank as critics moan about the "tragedy of it all." Warner Bros. needs to simply make the films that they set out to make instead of reacting to every bit of unfavorable press. Warner Bros. takes ever negative comment as the gospel, making them quick to reshoot, rewrite, or scrap film ideas to appease people thst aren't necessarily seeking to be pleased.


Thinking that a DCEU is Necessary to Begin With

Even though Marvel gets most of the shine, the fact of the matter is that Warner Bros. has been putting out superhero and comicbook films for the past 38 years. While there have been a few duds, most of their films have done pretty well in terms of box office revenue (Superman, Batman, Constantine, V for Vendetta, A History of Violence, Red, 300, The Dark Knight trilogy). DC could have simply made an excellent trilogy out of Man of Steel and moved on to something else (such as rebooting Green Lantern).

There was never any real need for Warner Bros. to make a shared cinematic universe as much as there was a need for them to simply put out a greater number of comicbook films that didn't involve Batman or Superman, and do so on a more frequent basis. And rather than worry about whether or not their films are grossing $1 billion, they should have simply focused on the profitability of the project. V for Vendetta didn't even gross $200 million, but was still a success (it earned $132 million against a budget of $54 million).

Hellboy, Kick-Ass, and many other films have proven that there is plenty of money to go around in the genre without having to copy or compete directly with Marvel. Warner Bros. has the distinct advantage of having the rights to all of the DC Comics characters. Warner Bros. should be plying that advantage to put out more diverse content than Marvel.

 

[The Joker]

that scene where Superman gets flinged around like a rag doll and when Wonder Woman uses her magical glowing whip to stop an alien monster are pretty realistic, man.

Then we have this masterful example of realism;

 

[Patchwork Man]

I don't think some of you understand the definition of "campy".

Don't worry, we do. We just don't want it applied to a cross-range of DC films. If, for example, they make a Booster Gold or Shazam movie that exists outside DCEU continuity, then by all means, injecting some camp won't be that big of a deal. It's not like CW's The Flash and Supergirl lack it. They don't.

Preferring a more "serious" and "dark" approach to movies is fine, but that's a pretty odd standard for a cinematic universe full of heroes that have largely been optimistic and hopeful. It doesn't really make sense, and as the film makers have demonstrated, they don't really know how to make an approach work for a healthy majority of film-goers.

I don't think Man of Steel is that dark, though. Nor Suicide Squad. The latter has plenty of humor. It's just not the overt bash-you-in-the-face kind that MCU-Stark employs.

Also, you're confusing what the filmmakers (all two of them, so far) have done with what the studio did to their cuts to arrive at the final theatrical cuts.

 

[MadVillainy]

"dark" =/= the absence of humor

 

[Erzengel]

I believe it's pronounced dawrk.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Now Batman and Robin, THAT'S campy...

Deliberately so. It's also why Batman '66 aka The Return of the Caped Crusaders will work as a new animated one-off, not as an entire series of live action films.

 

[Flint Marko]

Don't worry, we do. We just don't want it applied to a cross-range of DC films. If, for example, they make a Booster Gold or Shazam movie that exists outside DCEU continuity, then by all means, injecting some camp won't be that big of a deal. It's not like CW's The Flash and Supergirl lack it. They don't.

If you think the MCU is campy then no, you don't understand what camp is.

I don't think Man of Steel is that dark, though. Nor Suicide Squad. The latter has plenty of humor. It's just not the overt bash-you-in-the-face kind that MCU-Stark employs.

The latter has plenty of humor because they realized in the 11th hour that their approach thus far hasn't been working as well as they would like, lending further credence to my argument.

 

[Timebomb]

So according to some the following is true

Movie takes place during the day = campy
Movie takes place at night = realistic

Good to know