Why do we still entertain the idea of psychics?

[The Endless]

Prove it.

I hate this vague stuff of "oh there are things we can't understand, we can't quantify everything, I believe there is something beyond the physical".

'Cause you're being too vague, and in trying to sound "deep", you just sound silly. If you can't even quantify what the hell it is you're talking about I'm not going to take you seriously and neither should anyone else.

Don't talk to me like that, internet bad man Get over yourself.

I'm not trying to sound deep, i'm simply saying that if you consider how vast the universe is, we can't be arrogant enough to think we know how everything works within it.

I don't pretend to be a scientist, but i know that all scientific theories are that, theories. Sure based on lots of evidence. But still, theories of mankind. For us to assume we are the ultimate intellects of the entire ****ing universe is arrogant and foolish.

 

[Doctor Evo]

maybe i misunderstand what skepticism is but if you don't believe in Santa surely your not a skeptic.

While this is a good point, I think a distinction needs to be made between testable statements/hypotheses and untestable statements/hypotheses.

You can't really test for the existence of Santa Claus - as soon as you invoke magic and other supernatural phenomena, it moves outside of the realm of science and, in my opinion, is no longer worth considering in any practical context.

Psychic phenomena, however, have potentially quantifiable effects, and can be (and indeed have been) tested within a scientific framework.

Perhaps this is why the term skepticism is more appropriately applied to one than the other - though I have no problem calling myself a Santa Claus skeptic.

 

[Lord]

I don't completely discredit the existence of spirits, i'm atheist but i do believe there may be "more between heaven and earth".

 

[KevanG]

Eh, I've got better things to do right now. Got about twenty papers I need to read, a textbook I need to run through, and I need to get ready for my shark-wrangling dives tomorrow. You get a pass (for now).

Dagnabbit Evo. I called for you and you shamed me in front of the internet.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

You would have been burned at the stake for such shenanigans not that long ago... t:

Or today depending one what side of the Bible Belt you're on

 

[Beige Lantern]

I think you are misunderstanding the definition and role of skepticism. True skeptics do NOT go around vehemently denying the existence of X,Y and Z with 100% certainty, and without any room or desire for finding the truth. Skeptics are uncertain and QUESTION the existence of X,Y,Z and desire to seek out the truth. The two are VERY different and I see very few skeptics here.

I didn't say they do. I said a skeptic acknowledges when there is ZERO evidence to support something. That doesn't disprove its existence, because it's nearly impossible to prove a negative, but in a world where everyone has limited time energy and resources, some discernment on what you spend it exploring is necessary.

When psychic phenomena HAS been studied and turned up bupkis, it's time to focus on some things we've found supporting evidence for.

Otherwise, you're suggesting a true skeptic will delve deeply into investigating whether there is a real Tooth Fairy.

 

[Destructus86]

I'm a huge skeptic of it...I suppose it's possible. I like to keep an open mind.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I didn't say they do. I said a skeptic acknowledges when there is ZERO evidence to support something. That doesn't disprove its existence, because it's nearly impossible to prove a negative, but in a world where everyone has limited time energy and resources, some discernment on what you spend it exploring is necessary.

When psychic phenomena HAS been studied and turned up bupkis, it's time to focus on some things we've found supporting evidence for.

Thing is, psychic phenomena has NOT been studied in any real way. There have been "tests" and minimal research into frauds, but very little has been done to effectively produce any results (one way or the other) that are worth a damn. For as many scam artists that are proven frauds, there are legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads. It's because of people like you that keeps us from being comfortable enough to actually spend time on it to learn anything worthwhile.

Otherwise, you're suggesting a true skeptic will delve deeply into investigating whether there is a real Tooth Fairy.

Ah yes. You can always tell when someone is uncomfortable with not having much to base their opinion on when they bring out straw men arguments. This, and the topic of healthy skepticism as a whole, has NOTHING to do with your parents leaving money under your pillow or tossing toys under a tree. Its typical, sad, and boring.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Thing is, psychic phenomena has NOT been studied in any real way. There have been "tests" and minimal research into frauds, but very little has been done to effectively produce any results (one way or the other) that are worth a damn.

What, if anything, are you basing this on?

 

[Breogan]

There have been "tests" and minimal research into frauds,

You mean tests on people claiming they do have powers, then proven to be frauds.

Yes this is how healthy skepticism works, you test people those who say they have the power and look for evidence of it.
If the research is minimal it's because the evidence might not be there.
If you think you have this bounty of evidence people aren't considering bring it forth, point us to it.

... there are legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads. It's because of people like you that keeps us from being comfortable enough to actually spend time on it to learn anything worthwhile.

By all means point us in the direction of your worthwhile legitimate psychics.
Any of them, so we can see for ourselves why you believe it might be real.
Healthy skepticism and learning seeks the evidence. And does not take things on faith (or asks others to take things on faith) as you are doing.

 

[Beige Lantern]

Thing is, psychic phenomena has NOT been studied in any real way. There have been "tests" and minimal research into frauds, but very little has been done to effectively produce any results (one way or the other) that are worth a damn. For as many scam artists that are proven frauds, there are legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads. It's because of people like you that keeps us from being comfortable enough to actually spend time on it to learn anything worthwhile.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/esp

"...scientists have studied whether ESP exists. Their experiments have explored all kinds of ESP, but most have focused on mind reading.'

"ESP itself is neither scientific nor unscientific — but it can be studied scientifically or unscientifically, and scientific studies find no support for the hypothesis that ESP exists. Those who ignore the evidence and insist that ESP is a real, natural phenomenon fail to meet one of the key aspects of scientific behavior: assimilating the evidence."

Ah yes. You can always tell when someone is uncomfortable with not having much to base their opinion on when they bring out straw men arguments. This, and the topic of healthy skepticism as a whole, has NOTHING to do with your parents leaving money under your pillow or tossing toys under a tree. Its typical, sad, and boring.

Wuh... but... do... do you not understand what an illustration or an analogy are? In in analogy, you compare two things because they are similar on one or two characteristics. They're like... not supposed to be the exact same thing. You get that, right? Calling an analogy a straw man is like someone pointing out faulty research and you call that an ad hominem.

Oh wait, I just made an analogy, which you won't understand. No I am not calling you a researcher or claiming you've done anything faulty. Just... I dunno... I can't even communicate on this level.

 

[Beige Lantern]

Now, I have provided clear evidence to show your claim that no serious studies have been done on psychic phenomena is demonstrably false. Please, provide me with a single example of "legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads." I will take it seriously and consider it skeptically but fairly. I promise.

I'll wait...

 

[Apollo]

I don't completely discredit the existence of spirits, i'm atheist but i do believe there may be "more between heaven and earth".

I'm a huge skeptic of it...I suppose it's possible. I like to keep an open mind.

 

[KevanG]

Now, I have provided clear evidence to show your claim that no serious studies have been done on psychic phenomena is demonstrably false. Please, provide me with a single example of "legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads." I will take it seriously and consider it skeptically but fairly. I promise.

I'll wait...

"legitimate things that have left scientists scratching their heads." Well there's a large number of things over the years like theories on dark matter, the big bang and if we go back centuries how people get sick, being it an imbalance of humors or whatever.

 

[Alien Anal]

While this is a good point, I think a distinction needs to be made between testable statements/hypotheses and untestable statements/hypotheses.

You can't really test for the existence of Santa Claus - as soon as you invoke magic and other supernatural phenomena, it moves outside of the realm of science and, in my opinion, is no longer worth considering in any practical context.

Psychic phenomena, however, have potentially quantifiable effects, and can be (and indeed have been) tested within a scientific framework.

Perhaps this is why the term skepticism is more appropriately applied to one than the other - though I have no problem calling myself a Santa Claus skeptic.

Could you explain to me what you mean when you say it has quantifiable effects?

I feel like once you are breaking it down to that level it's not really psychic phenomena we are talking about. Because we have nothing to go by it seems people have to work backwards to get any kind of "it could be possible" answer. It might some what resemble The claims that people make but its really a separate thing

 

[Doctor Evo]

Could you explain to me what you mean when you say it has quantifiable effects?

An accuracy rate, for example, that is sufficiently unlikely to be achieved by chance alone, over many repeated trials, and with the application of appropriate controls (we'd be dealing primarily with binomial probability distributions, in this case).

I feel like once you are breaking it down to that level it's not really psychic phenomena we are talking about. Because we have nothing to go by it seems people have to work backwards to get any kind of "it could be possible" answer. It might some what resemble The claims that people make but its really a separate thing

That's where proper experimental design comes into play. And there's nothing wrong with "working backwards."

 

[Alien Anal]

I can't help but feel like its similar to those docos that try explain how supermans powers might work if he was real.

 

[Doctor Evo]

I can't help but feel like its similar to those docos that try explain how supermans powers might work if he was real.

You've lost me.

Spoiler

But that might be because I've had one too many rum-and-cokes.

 

[Alien Anal]

You've lost me.

Spoiler

But that might be because I've had one too many rum-and-cokes.

t: hah sorry. i am at work and using my phone to write which is very frustrating so i tend to cut my sentences down which doesn't really help in discussions like this

 

[Perfect Cell]

I just want to ask: Why has no one commented on the fact that The End and The Endless were fighting at the top of this page? If there's ever been something that perfectly represents debating on an internet forum, this is it.

THAT'S your ethereal look through the universe.

 

[Alien Anal]

I didn't think they were fighting and personally i wouldn't want to draw attention to it if they were as to avoid this thread getting closed.

 

[Tempest]

I'm not sure if this is a serious comment or not. But I'd say the reality revealed by science is so much more exciting and beautiful than the rubbish that people try to make up about reality.

Watch Neil deGrasse Tyson's Cosmos if ya don't believe me!

I like all the 'rubbish'. It provides a fascinating look into human behavior. And non-human behavior....

Elephants Reveal How God is a Theory of Mind

Through the Wormhole – Is God an Alien Concept is a clip more spiritual than all the Hail Marys and Allahu Akbars and Oms put together, and more meaningful than any religious sermon or service. In five short minutes it manages to reveal the mechanism behind the existence of God as a ‘theory of mind,’ an extrapolated awareness in the midst of a dynamic universe, tying a number of intelligences together, intelligences which we systematically neglect, yet which have time and time again proven themselves to be a crucial part of the formula, constituting that which one could deem sacred and larger than life: the all-encompassing web of self-awareness and self-determination, a state of being that functions within the parameters of a grand dynamic.

Link to rest of article. Or if you're lazy, the video it talks about.

http://urbantimes.co/2014/04/god-is-a-theory-of-mind/

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpooaD3cCE8[/YT]

You're going to make them cry....
[YT]0azoN7t3UhM[/YT]
[YT]923jxZY2NPI[/YT]

Meanwhile what superstition and "magic" wrought -
[YT]uxVOmOKuyaM[/YT]

Make who cry? Boring narrators?

Superstitions have brought out the best and worst in people. There's no challenging that, I agree.

But I've read enough about cruel things done in the name of science to know better than to think that somehow science is on a moral high ground because it tries to root itself in reason.

People are sometimes really terrible. Religion and science can't argue over that fact.

 

[KevanG]

I didn't think they were fighting and personally i wouldn't want to draw attention to it if they were as to avoid this thread getting closed.

He means the usernames themselves. We have The End and The Endless debating each other on mysteries of the universe. t:

 

[Perfect Cell]

He means the usernames themselves. We have The End and The Endless debating each other on mysteries of the universe. t:

 

[KevanG]

Thank you, thank you. No applause, just throw money.