The Dark Knight Rises Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

[Alex Logan]

Good point. I never really thought of the football stadium just as a way for Bane to get his audience, but it does makes sense rather than it feeling like some contradiction to everything else Bane actually does with the siege or the "revolution".

So, in simple terms:

- Bane finds out about the lie.
- Bane breaks Batman, takes Bruce to the Pit and informs him that he's going to poison Gotham by giving them "hope", while he believes there is true despair with hope as he's going to end that "hope" by destroying Gotham.
- Bane traps the GCPD underneath the city, destroys all bridges to the city except for one and announces that there will be martial law within Gotham while proclaiming this martial law will begin the next day.
- Bane breaks into Blackgate Prison and begins this "revolution" by having the criminals and the poor have their day in the sun while punishing the rich businessmen, capitalists and leftover cops that aren't trapped in the tunnels while this is all just a way to kill Bruce's soul as he watches his greatest victory just break apart until the LoS waits for the nuclear bomb's reactor to heat up.

Imo, I love the plan more and more whenever I think about it and watch TDKR.

This is the way saw the story from the very beginning. Bane's plan evloved as the story went along. Essentially, he's a master tactician at work. They also never planned on going all suicidal, they just had adapt to what was happening and both were willing to die for the cause.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Bane is enjoying himself quite a bit. It's not just a plan to get rid of a city - it's a city-wide punishment of everybody. And America has to witness it to learn from it.

 

[BatLobster]

I absolutely love the pit scene. That's the only thing I like in the 2nd act. It's also one of the few scenes I could re-watch over and over again.

I agree, it's such a cathartic scene. It's so great because you know he's going to make it, but the music, cinematography and everything just make it this inspirational moment. And then the bats are such a nice touch that catch you off guard. Not gonna lie, I teared up during that part when I first saw it.

 

[shauner111]

When you first saw it? heheh I tear up EVERYTIME that part comes up.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I absolutely love the pit scene. That's the only thing I like in the 2nd act. It's also one of the few scenes I could re-watch over and over again.

Indeed it was the best scene in the 2nd act. I don't see how that scene doesn't make you choke up a little, but I guess everyone is different, haha. That scene was much more emotional than tension-worthy because Bruce is literally climbing out of this life he has been in for the pasty thirty plus years.

 

[Anno_Domini]

This is the way saw the story from the very beginning. Bane's plan evloved as the story went along. Essentially, he's a master tactician at work. They also never planned on going all suicidal, they just had adapt to what was happening and both were willing to die for the cause.

This, I disagree with. I think they were all going to sacrifice their lives for this common cause. As we saw before, obviously Bane's men were fine of killing themselves, from that plane heist scene to the scene with Batman's return where Bane told Stryver that the men captured during that chase would die before they speak. Bane and Talia were even going to risk their lives for this greater goal of destroying Gotham City for good because the city didn't press the restart button during Ra's al Ghul's time and so the city just needed to be destroyed because of its "borrowed time".

 

[kvz5]

Anyone else love how pumped Bruce was in his 2nd attempt?! But then... He didn't even make it as far as he did on his first try. There were a lot of gasps at that part because I guess people expected him to make it at that time?

 

[BatLobster]

Anyone else love how pumped Bruce was in his 2nd attempt?! But then... He didn't even make it as far as he did on his first try. There were a lot of gasps at that part because I guess people expected him to make it at that time?

I like how his anger was is downfall there (symbolized by him breaking off the brick). Contrasts nicely with how poised and graceful he is on the third attempt.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Bane is enjoying himself quite a bit. It's not just a plan to get rid of a city - it's a city-wide punishment of everybody. And America has to witness it to learn from it.

And by extension, the rest of the world along with it - "The next era of Western civilisation".

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Everyone?

TDKR is my favourite solo superhero movie

 

[Anno_Domini]

You know, it still bugs me that some seem to hate Nolan's version because he supposedly doesn't give a "true" Batman, but in reality, he does. His Batman may not be the World's Greatest Detective, an escapologist, a trained computer hacker or have photographic memory, but everything else is there. He had peak physical condition and a martial artist because of training from Ra's al Ghul(as well as becoming a strategist during that time as well with learning of theatricality and deception), a master of stealth and disguise(he did have a disguise in Batman Begins), an expert fighter and tactician as shown in all three films(final battle with Ra's, final battle with Joker and the chase scene, final battle with Bane), proficiency with technology(example: he fixed the auto pilot patch on The Bat and the similar flight vehicles), and even his profoundness of interrogation, even crossing the lines to torture at some moments(which Batman isn't afraid to cross I might add).

 

[CFE]

BTW, have you written a TDKR review, CFE?

Actually, no. I've been spending more time on writing original fiction.

Funny enough I'm writing a review now for "Man of Steel"...perhaps "Rises" will come after and I'll finally get back into the groove of reviewing.

 

[BareYourTeeth]

Yeah because he already failed to get out twice. The way the music was going and the prisoners were reacting including the old blind doctor, you knew Bruce was going to make it.

It was a good moment but there was no tension there. I'd have been shocked if he didn't make it the way the scene was building up. It seemed fairly obvious.

You mean the fact that he wasn't using the rope and would've died if he failed wasn't what gave it away?



Come on now.

 

[The Joker]

You mean the fact that he wasn't using the rope and would've died if he failed wasn't what gave it away?



Come on now.

Lol well that, too

 

[Alex Logan]

You know, it still bugs me that some seem to hate Nolan's version because he supposedly doesn't give a "true" Batman, but in reality, he does. His Batman may not be the World's Greatest Detective, an escapologist, a trained computer hacker or have photographic memory, but everything else is there. He had peak physical condition and a martial artist because of training from Ra's al Ghul(as well as becoming a strategist during that time as well with learning of theatricality and deception), a master of stealth and disguise(he did have a disguise in Batman Begins), an expert fighter and tactician as shown in all three films(final battle with Ra's, final battle with Joker and the chase scene, final battle with Bane), proficiency with technology(example: he fixed the auto pilot patch on The Bat and the similar flight vehicles), and even his profoundness of interrogation, even crossing the lines to torture at some moments(which Batman isn't afraid to cross I might add).

Agreed.

 

[georgec]

Nolan took the best and most interesting aspects of the Batman mythos and crafted a wonderful, personal tale of what it would mean for someone to actually be Batman. And like AD said it's not like Nolan forgot to give him various skills in fighting, technology, detective work, etc. We saw those things enough to understand Bruce's proficiency in them. We didn't need to be hit over the head constantly with the idea that Bruce can do this or that.

 

[Anno_Domini]

To add that, Nolan actually DID show a snippet of Batman being an escapologist, having found a way to escape the Narrows to where Alfred can pick up him after Scarecrow poisoned him. That's a nod right there.

That's all I really want too, hints of Batman's plethora, and not something that beats us over the head with it, and that's what I'd want in the reboot too(besides being a more capable hero where he can do fine against aliens and the like).

 

[Marvolo]

Nolan dropped the ball on the fights, and its my biggest complaint about his take on Batman. Not once do I believe Bruce is a master martial artist. I mean he gets his ass beat by a lunatic in makeup.

Take the Bane fight as well. The Batman would have cut the lights and proceeded to feed his fists and boots to every mercenary watching then he would have proceeded to fight Bane with both gadgets and skills. Now I understand the why behind Bruce getting his ass kicked in the first Bane fight. He didn't really care and he kind of wanted to die. Its just that nowhere else in the films was there a place to see his skills shine. The choreography and the way the fights are shot just don't make Nolan's Batman look like a man who has mastered many different types of martial arts. Its questionable choreography hiding behind quick cuts and up close camera angles. Just once I wanted Nolan to pull the camera back and keep the camera in one point focus and show us what Bruce could do.

This is an area where all the Batman films have let me down.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Because Nolan was the first one to have Joker beat up Batman, a known master of the martial arts in the comics as well....

 

[bilbo baggins]

honestly the joker couldnt beat batman in a straight fight. batman is subdued by the dogs when he gets a lead-pipe sandwich,then we he kicks the joker off his sonar lenses go haywire, allowing the joker another shot to subdue him again. but nolans joker is tough dont get me wrong.

 

[georgec]

I always figured Batman doesn't push Joker off him in that scene because Joker could have easily pulled the trigger in response. Batman was being a little more tactful there, and of course he had momentarily been distracted by the dogs which gave Joker a brief advantage.

But I never saw that scene purely as Joker overpowering Batman. Maybe I need to rewatch it.

 

[Marvolo]

Because Nolan was the first one to have Joker beat up Batman, a known master of the martial arts in the comics as well....

I'm not talking about the comics. I don't care about choreography and fights in print. In film I want something more. In TDK it is never once established that this lunatic has fighting skills beyond whacking someone with a lead pipe. In fact its established he doesn't have much in the way of fighting skills in the penthouse based on the way he cowardly throws his thugs at Batman in the penthouse and then sticks him with the shoe knife while his thugs try to hold Batman down. Then after he is hit by batman he backs away and grabs Rachel to leverage a way out. If he was a fighter capable of handling batman he would have went at Batman and yanked his mask off which was his intended goal or just beat his ass or tried to and escaped. So its established Nolans joker isnt a martial arts master. Smart, yes, but not much of a fighter.

In the prewitt building, the Batman wouldn't have just walked head on up to the Joker. He has no way of knowing what the Joker might do if he sees him. He would come in from above or from below or use any number of his gadgets. Nolan's Batman just walks straight in and kills two dogs then gets beat with a pipe.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

I always figured Batman doesn't push Joker off him in that scene because Joker could have easily pulled the trigger in response. Batman was being a little more tactful there, and of course he had momentarily been distracted by the dogs which gave Joker a brief advantage.

But I never saw that scene purely as Joker overpowering Batman. Maybe I need to rewatch it.

Because it's not what's depicted in the movie. Joker gets a few good hits in while Batman's tangled up in that net, then takes him by surprise when his lense malfunction as a result of the previous hits. Joker never overpowers Batman and this is underlined by how easily Batman shrugs him off everytime the Joker seemingly has the upper hand.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'm not talking about the comics. I don't care about choreography and fights in print. In film I want something more. In TDK it is never once established that this lunatic has fighting skills beyond whacking someone with a lead pipe. In fact its established he doesn't have much in the way of fighting skills in the penthouse based on the way he cowardly throws his thugs at Batman in the penthouse and then sticks him with the shoe knife while his thugs try to hold Batman down. Then after he is hit by batman he backs away and grabs Rachel to leverage a way out. If he was a fighter capable of handling batman he would have went at Batman and yanked his mask off which was his intended goal or just beat his ass or tried to and escaped. So its established Nolans joker isnt a martial arts master. Smart, yes, but not much of a fighter.

In the prewitt building, the Batman wouldn't have just walked head on up to the Joker. He has no way of knowing what the Joker might do if he sees him. He would come in from above or from below or use any number of his gadgets. Nolan's Batman just walks straight in and kills two dogs then gets beat with a pipe.

You should care what the comics show though....Batman is this master of the martial arts but he can even get sidestepped by a lunatic clown with a pipe in his hand.

 

[Marvolo]

You should care what the comics show though....Batman is this master of the martial arts but he can even get sidestepped by a lunatic clown with a pipe in his hand.

I care about what the film(s) in question establish. They don't show this Batman as a master martial artist. He can fight no doubt but I don't see some martial arts master. The stuff from the comics never happened in his universe so what they show is irrelevant to me in regards to what I want from a batman film. I want a batman who can beat the unholy bejeezus out of some criminal scum and I want to see it at least once. A fight with ferocity, speed, and I want to feel my balls tingle when he cracks someone's face lol. I want to feel the kinetic energy of the fight. I also want to see a fight shot by someone who knows how to properly shoot a fight.

I read an article today that the new Batman or Wonder Woman will be introduced in the next Superman film. It will be interesting to see what Snyder does with that. I love Nolan's take, but I want better fights in the next Batman film. I want to see more of him swooping down and yanking guys up into the darkness. More stealth and gadgetry. Then I want to see him unleashed on some criminals like the terror he is supposed to be. I'd also like the criminals to at least act like they know how to use a gun and can fight. Rather than standing around waiting for their turn to be hit or attempting to whack batman with the gun I want them to gang up on him and actively shoot at him with the skill of at least a competent human being so that Batman has to use his stealth, agility, and gadgetry to take them all out.