Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

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Nah... this franchise needs to take risks.
Like creating a movie called First Class focusing mostly on nobodies and putting less well known characters like mystique front and center? Like having an expensive team up movie with an enormous cast even though the domestic box office has been dropping with every movie? How about a little movie called Deadpool or another attempt at a Wolverine movie after how hard the first one failed? Or how about a move that is basically a sequel to the lowest grossing team movie in the franchise? Yes there might be a bit too much of Raven and Erik just like there once was too much of Logan, but I do really believe that the next movie will live up to the promise of developing the new kids instead. But do I expect them to just forget about Raven and Erik? Not a chance.
 
I agree on the decade jumps, totally. But, I disagree that the movies should try to be balanced. In fact, I think that is one of the biggest problems with this movie. So many characters all dividing up screen-time. Instead of trying to balance things so that sideline characters get their moments, they should just cut the sidelined characters. It is important to have character moments, but they should be the ones that the plot demands.

I disagree. So many of the characters were non-entities (Storm, Angel, Jubilee, Psylocke... even Jean didn't have any backstory prior to being at the school though she did have presence and substance). That's down to the editing removing lots of scenes in most cases.

You can't just cut ALL those characters (though Jubilee could have been cut completely) because the X-Men are a team who need more than one opponent to go up against. Therefore, there will need to be multiple characters in the movie.

In addition, Apocalypse always has his four horsemen, with Archangel typically among them and expected to be there. The only way around the challenge of characterising those four horsemen (and failing in this case, as Angel, Psylocke and Storm were not very well characterised) would be to scrap the four we got and instead keep the original horsemen from the opening sequence - they could have been entombed alongside Apocalypse and wake up with him. I don't think those original four would need much characterisation.

What happened was that Magneto got too much screentime (and spent the climax mostly hovering in his magnetic force bubble), while the other three were shafted. Lack of balance.

I would say that trying to balance the movies and give every character their moment would be a mistake.

The Russos and Civil War say hello with their $1 billion box office. They managed balance, they managed little scenes (Spider-Man, Black Panther) that gave motivation/personality to brand new characters.

This obsession with removing everything that doesn't drive the plot is only one technique of filmmaking, it's not the only way to do it - as the Russos' efforts show.

One user review on Box Office Theory nailed this:
"Remember those people who kept whining Singer didn't do X or Y mutant "justice" in the previous movies because they were sidelined in favor of a tighter focus? they basically won. Singer made this movie for them, for people who always disliked the X-Men movies, and as a result, we got the most episodic, messy, rushed, overstuffed and unfocused X-Men yet.

Well this is sheer nonsense, because Angel, Psylocke, Storm and Jubilee WERE sidelined. Jubilee should never have been in the script, the others should have been developed a little more (removing some of the other stuff with Magneto would have been easy, such as the Auschwitz scene).

Also, I had a big problem with the editing, you know when you feel the shot should have been a few seconds longer? that's basically the entire movie, never letting it breathe properly, I was like calm down for a bit."

The story was very disjointed, especially at the start, with all that flitting round the world. I think a problematic script is at the heart of it. An Extended Edition would go some way to sweeping away the complaints.
 
Figured I'd peek around the corner to see if there was still doom and gloom. ;)

nah it's just let's bash the hell out of all X-men films that aren't first class and deadpool.

obviously under-performing at box office will have an effect on films.what that remains to be seen.
 
nah it's just let's bash the hell out of all X-men films that aren't first class and deadpool.
That too.

obviously under-performing at box office will have an effect on films.what that remains to be seen.
Not saying that it won't have an effect. But it sure as hell won't cause a reboot or some of the other stuff people are talking about here. I'm not convinced the effect in the end will be negative either.
 
Like creating a movie called First Class focusing mostly on nobodies and putting less well known characters like mystique front and center? Like having an expensive team up movie with an enormous cast even though the domestic box office has been dropping with every movie? How about a little movie called Deadpool or another attempt at a Wolverine movie after how hard the first one failed? Or how about a move that is basically a sequel to the lowest grossing team movie in the franchise? Yes there might be a bit too much of Raven and Erik just like there once was too much of Logan, but I do really believe that the next movie will live up to the promise of developing the new kids instead. But do I expect them to just forget about Raven and Erik? Not a chance.

In other words, you just described the risks they took for the franchise.
 
We don't know what Singer cut out besides the mall scene, Storm's conversation with Charles and a chunk of the Psylocke fight. There could've been nothing for the other characters in the first place in the script. This film bit off more than it could chew - it tried to do CW or Avengers without the painstaking process of building up the characters. These characters were far too scattered to work well in a streamlined story - the screenplay had to change first and foremost. Don't use A-list characters as Horsemen, don't tie up the young kids' development with the Weapon X cameo or use brainwashing so we don't have to be concerned with development of Horsemen. The fact that we only had one actual fight in the film didn't help at all either. These good and bad guys hardly interacted with each other.

Don't think it's an editing issue as much as it is a screenplay issue in the case of Apocalypse. It just wasn't there for Ottman to work with.
 
I am very much assuming that was a creative team decision, after all kinberg did say they almost wrote him in as field leader half way in the film before changing their mind
Right. So I assume if the next creative team decides to take out Magneto and Raven, you'll be fine with it.
 
The fact that we only had one actual fight in the film didn't help at all either.

That's been a problem with these films since the beginning. They're action-averse, for whatever reason that may be. This was particularly an issue with DOFP's climax; Wolverine might as well have not even been there for all the good he did against the Sentinels and Magneto.
 
I disagree. So many of the characters were non-entities (Storm, Angel, Jubilee, Psylocke... even Jean didn't have any backstory prior to being at the school though she did have presence and substance). That's down to the editing removing lots of scenes in most cases.

You can't just cut ALL those characters (though Jubilee could have been cut completely) because the X-Men are a team who need more than one opponent to go up against. Therefore, there will need to be multiple characters in the movie.

In addition, Apocalypse always has his four horsemen, with Archangel typically among them and expected to be there. The only way around the challenge of characterising those four horsemen (and failing in this case, as Angel, Psylocke and Storm were not very well characterised) would be to scrap the four we got and instead keep the original horsemen from the opening sequence - they could have been entombed alongside Apocalypse and wake up with him. I don't think those original four would need much characterisation.

What happened was that Magneto got too much screentime (and spent the climax mostly hovering in his magnetic force bubble), while the other three were shafted. Lack of balance.



The Russos and Civil War say hello with their $1 billion box office. They managed balance, they managed little scenes (Spider-Man, Black Panther) that gave motivation/personality to brand new characters.

This obsession with removing everything that doesn't drive the plot is only one technique of filmmaking, it's not the only way to do it - as the Russos' efforts show.



Well this is sheer nonsense, because Angel, Psylocke, Storm and Jubilee WERE sidelined. Jubilee should never have been in the script, the others should have been developed a little more (removing some of the other stuff with Magneto would have been easy, such as the Auschwitz scene).



The story was very disjointed, especially at the start, with all that flitting round the world. I think a problematic script is at the heart of it. An Extended Edition would go some way to sweeping away the complaints.

This Is X-men board not civil war or MCU board.to avoid arguements i will no longer comment on those films In X-men boards.

what happened In Apocalypse was totally predacble.This was conclusion of first class trilogy so obviously it was going to focus on Xavier,magneto,and mystique.Apocalypse was done totally expected.he isn't a deep villain.a
i want to destroy the world and build new one.

It was obvious after they revealed the horseman that magneto would be the one with devolpment just like archangel in comics or 1990's animated show.
I knew storm was not going to get much devolpment but many here didn't want to listen.

Jubilee only having a small role was totaly predicable.

People keep ignoring cyclops and jean had some focus.That pleasently surprised me.and they didn't do what I thought they would do and have it be magneto who killed apocalypse like age of apocalypse comic.

Bryan Singer clealry wanted to deal with 6 characters-Xavier,Magneto,Mystique,Apocalypse,Cyclops,and Jean.

Under-performing at box office leaves future of franchise up In the air.Whoever makes next X-men film assuming there is one anytime soon will pick characters to focus on.
 
I knew storm was not going to get much devolpment but many here didn't want to listen.

Jubilee only having a small role was totaly predicable.
That doesn't make it a GOOD THING, marvelrobbins.

Fact is Singer is no longer getting a pass for this stuff.
 
Right. So I assume if the next creative team decides to take out Magneto and Raven, you'll be fine with it.

If there is a next creative team, if fox trust them enough and if they did write out magneto and mystique then I am sure they would do it for a good reason, but either way each character is gonna have their own arc and obviously magneto and mystique have links to other characters and that's not gonna change so if they decide to not explore quicksilver and magneto any further Then that's fully up to them but chances are they will wanna give quicksilver some strong arc and not just have him be there as a side character.
 
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That's been a problem with these films since the beginning. They're action-averse, for whatever reason that may be. This was particularly an issue with DOFP's climax; Wolverine might as well have not even been there for all the good he did against the Sentinels and Magneto.
It's ironic that the one time people wanted to see Wolverine fight was the one time Singer/Kinberg took him out because Wolverine would've overshadowed Charles at the end of the film. I don't have an issue in DOFP with that in that regard, but Apocalypse needed a bit more conflict between the good and bad guys. The mansion invasion would've been a perfect time for Hank, Peter, Alex and Raven to fight and be completely overmatched by the Horsemen, therefore establishing the need for the X-Men.
 
Holy crap, this thing hasn't even hit $500m WW yet? Maybe I'm spoiled by MCU films but isn't that horrible numbers for an event film such as this?
 
That too.

Not saying that it won't have an effect. But it sure as hell won't cause a reboot or some of the other stuff people are talking about here. I'm not convinced the effect in the end will be negative either.

I really don't know what they will do after weapon X hits in march.

I look forward in fall to getting the Apocalypse DVD so I have it to watch at
home.

except for deadpool sequel who knows what the future is post weapon X.

It wasn't till fall 2011 with news of Simon Kinberg hired to write that we knew for sure first class was getting a sequel.just like it wasn't fall 2013 that we knew we were getting a third wolverine film with james Mangold and
Hugh jackman so it may be awhile before any news on what fox is doing with main X-men films as well as some of the planned spin-offs
 
I see the gatherinf of the horsmens has a parralel to Charles wrong doing.

First Apocalypse get Storm whom is a thief, like Charles who stole Moira memories.

Second he get Psylocke and set her out of the control of Caliban, Charles let go of his control over Mystique in DoFP and will let of control over Jean.

Then Angel, rise my angel, he enhance is power and Charles will repeat his words to set free Jean and the Phoenix. (Both bird figure, this also echoes X3 where Angel mirrored Jean's will to get free but Charles wasn't approving).

And then Erik who told everything to his wife first day, no lies. And took care of his daughter. Erik and Charles both reassure their daighter in bed in the movie (Jean is a daughter figure to Charles).

Apocalypse is doing everything Charles should have done. And Charles to destroy him will have to repeat his words "unleash your power", words Mystique already spoke. I see Apocalypse as the repressed memory that is why Moira discover him. And Jean will finish him. Both with fire/sun.

Charles's wife and daughter are Moira and Jean. In the scene where Scott destroy the tree we see Jean shooting an arrow, the in the scene she had her nightmare we see a picture of a forest burning and birds of paper close to the window. In the next scene we have erik's daughter killed by an arrow while summoning birds in the forest.

Apocalypse has a speech about burning the forest to the ground.

They made a lot of connections and they did not spell it out. You canno't say this would have been better (changing the horsmen) when they though the thing as a whole. They are clearly flaws in dialogue or scene cut out, ok. But there is information if you look for it and it make sense. I thought that wzs bold on them, to tell something with images and details other lots of dialogues. They choose cheezy dialogues. The movies has flaws but i don't think the choosing of the horsemens are it
 
It's ironic that the one time people wanted to see Wolverine fight was the one time Singer/Kinberg took him out because Wolverine would've overshadowed Charles at the end of the film.

I mean, if you're gonna have him, have him. Magneto taking out Wolverine is fine, but literally nothing Wolverine does in the movie matters after he connects the two Xaviers. If just Hank and Charles went to the press conference the rest of the movie would have played out exactly the same. At least let Wolverine save some people or stop a Sentinel or get a good lick in at Magneto or something.

Even Beast got more to do than him (turning off his beast form to lure the Sentinel towards Magneto to distract him before Mystique shoots him).

Holy crap, this thing hasn't even hit $500m WW yet? Maybe I'm spoiled by MCU films but isn't that horrible numbers for an event film such as this?

Fox shouldn't realistically expect event film numbers from a movie like this; DOFP was the franchise's peak (big cast, critical acclaim, return of original director) and it maxed out at 750M. I always said there was no way Apocalypse could re-capture that lightning in a bottle.
 
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If there is a next creative team, if fox trust them enough and if they did write out magneto and mystique then I am sure they would do it for a good reason, but either way each character is gonna have their own arc and obviously magneto and mystique have links to other characters and that's not gonna change so if they decide to not explore quicksilver and magneto any further Then that's fully up to them but chances are they will wanna give quicksilver some strong arc and not just have him be there as a side character.

There are other ways to make X-Men films than to focus on Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. You talk as though this is the ONLY way to make an X-Men movie.

A new team with a creative shake-up and different thinking is probably the best thing that could happen right now.
 
It's not being rebooted. Gonna make 500 million worldwide. It will get a sequel.

I agree that FOX is not going to stop making X-Men films, but Apocalypse could end up with over a 30% and 25% drop off from DOFP in domestic and overseas BO. And with mediocre reviews, It's going to be hard to justify a pricey 90s era X-Men in Space follow up.

With Deadpool's crazy success there was always risk the recast X-Kids would be left in the past and the series continues with lower cost modern day spin offs. With these results I am more convinced that will happen.
 
That's been a problem with these films since the beginning. They're action-averse, for whatever reason that may be. This was particularly an issue with DOFP's climax; Wolverine might as well have not even been there for all the good he did against the Sentinels and Magneto.

This for example, the goal was not the fight it was Logan ending in the lake wich is like in X2 when Jean ends up in the lake, and both time we have the clue for a resurection. Both character had the hability to heal and resurect.

It also made a link to Apocalypse awakening. At the beggining of XMA what powers do Apoc incorporate? Healing powers. And he end up burried. And resurect.

We could even parralells that both Logan and Apoc are awaken by woman (mystique/moira) where in X3 it was a man, Scott, who awaken Jean.

In fact that's pretty acurate since in X3 it was men who rescued woman, magneto failed with mystique, where in XMA it is mostly woman rescuing men. It shows the direction they took. The story resolved because Charles cry for Jean's help. To make it right they had to give woman the power and freedom. This is pretty strong message imo
 
ApophènX;33813171 said:
I see the gatherinf of the horsmens has a parralel to Charles wrong doing.

First Apocalypse get Storm whom is a thief, like Charles who stole Moira memories.

Second he get Psylocke and set her out of the control of Caliban, Charles let go of his control over Mystique in DoFP and will let of control over Jean.

Then Angel, rise my angel, he enhance is power and Charles will repeat his words to set free Jean and the Phoenix. (Both bird figure, this also echoes X3 where Angel mirrored Jean's will to get free but Charles wasn't approving).

And then Erik who told everything to his wife first day, no lies. And took care of his daughter. Erik and Charles both reassure their daighter in bed in the movie (Jean is a daughter figure to Charles).

Apocalypse is doing everything Charles should have done. And Charles to destroy him will have to repeat his words "unleash your power", words Mystique already spoke. I see Apocalypse as the repressed memory that is why Moira discover him. And Jean will finish him. Both with fire/sun.

Charles's wife and daughter are Moira and Jean. In the scene where Scott destroy the tree we see Jean shooting an arrow, the in the scene she had her nightmare we see a picture of a forest burning and birds of paper close to the window. In the next scene we have erik's daughter killed by an arrow while summoning birds in the forest.

Apocalypse has a speech about burning the forest to the ground.

They made a lot of connections and they did not spell it out. You canno't say this would have been better (changing the horsmen) when they though the thing as a whole. They are clearly flaws in dialogue or scene cut out, ok. But there is information if you look for it and it make sense. I thought that wzs bold on them, to tell something with images and details other lots of dialogues. They choose cheezy dialogues. The movies has flaws but i don't think the choosing of the horsemens are it

i don't think there is as much symbolism as you may think, esp with Charles and moira.
 
I agree that FOX is not going to stop making X-Men films, but Apocalypse could end up with over a 30% and 25% drop off from DOFP in domestic and overseas BO. And with mediocre reviews, It's going to be hard to justify a pricey 90s era X-Men in Space follow up.

With Deadpool's crazy success there was always risk the recast X-Kids would be left in the past and the series continues with lower cost modern day spin offs. With these results I am more convinced that will happen.

I don't want the X-Men in space. Hollywood's obsession with going bigger each time is not always a good thing. In this case, the franchise's capabilities with CGI, green screen and monster make-up were stretched to the limit. I think the box office is bringing things down to earth with a bump, and down to earth is where the franchise belongs.

It would take a far more skilled regime to pull off a space opera and i'm not sure the franchise would gain anything from it.
 
It's ironic that the one time people wanted to see Wolverine fight was the one time Singer/Kinberg took him out because Wolverine would've overshadowed Charles at the end of the film.

I don't think that is the reason, in every film Logan stab a woman in the stomach. He always hurt woman and end up hurting Jean, killing her. In OT that is why he is friend with Rogue, same problem in the end.

But in XMA for the first time he don't because Jean heal him. And i reversed X3, Jean saved him, and he took needles out of his stomach and heart.
 
There are other ways to make X-Men films than to focus on Xavier, Magneto and Mystique. You talk as though this is the ONLY way to make an X-Men movie.

A new team with a creative shake-up and different thinking is probably the best thing that could happen right now.

those who like apocalypse aren't defending mystique's role.

with apocalypse's box office future of X-Men films is up in the air.and if there is sequel to apocalypse noone knows who would be making them.

I view those who keep going for new creative team as wanting the films to be in name only connected to First Class trilogy.
 
I agree that FOX is not going to stop making X-Men films, but Apocalypse could end up with over a 30% and 25% drop off from DOFP in domestic and overseas BO. And with mediocre reviews, It's going to be hard to justify a pricey 90s era X-Men in Space follow up.

With Deadpool's crazy success there was always risk the recast X-Kids would be left in the past and the series continues with lower cost modern day spin offs. With these results I am more convinced that will happen.

With deadpools success being because he is deadpool then setting a film with a new cast in present day would make very little difference to the franchise and its box office, well unless you add deadpool to the mix while he is continuing to be popular and he can carry the movies till you milk him dry.

Otherwise it makes very little difference whether it's in present day or not, and just to correct you there was never that risk, deadpool success is very much deadpools own
 
those who like apocalypse aren't defending mystique's role.

with apocalypse's box office future of X-Men films is up in the air.and if there is sequel to apocalypse noone knows who would be making them.

I view those who keep going for new creative team as wanting the films to be in name only connected to First Class trilogy.

The First Class trilogy has (more or less) wrapped up its story arcs now. So new story arcs are needed. Not more of the same. It's to let go of the past and move forward...
 
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