Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

[ApophènX]

i don't think there is as much symbolism as you may think, esp with Charles and moira.

Yeah it's a coincidence Erik told his wife everything and Mystique, they are nemesis, opposite, Charles was a naughty litlle telepath who keep too luch secret in OT, XMA and DoFP are about hip dealing and changing that.

In FC beggining, Charles only meet with woman when Erik deal with men. Beczuse he is obssessed with his "creator". He will kill him.

Apocalypse is also a "creator" and a father figure. They said it in interview he is like the Old Testament god. Wich is a god of light and a sun figure. Charles has to deal with him in XMA and will call for help. Where Magneto do stuff alone, he do stuff in togetherness. Family style.

And the sun figure passes to woman. And we end with Erik and Jean building back the house, the one who kill the vilain in FC and the one who did in XMA. And they were both the bad guys in X3. Coincidence or greater meaning? your choice

 

[Smilodon]

I don't think that is the reason, in every film Logan stab a woman in the stomach. He always hurt woman and end up hurting Jean, killing her. In OT that is why he is friend with Rogue, same problem in the end.

But in XMA for the first time he don't because Jean heal him. And i reversed X3, Jean saved him, and he took needles out of his stomach and heart.

No, that is the reason. Kinberg mentioned it in the Empire spoiler podcasts following DOFP.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Yeah it's a coincidence Erik told his wife everything and Mystique, they are nemesis, opposite, Charles was a naughty litlle telepath who keep too luch secret in OT, XMA and DoFP are about hip dealing and changing that.

When it comes to Charles erasing Moiras memory I think you read to much symbolism into it when really that wasn't the point of it

 

[Frankeh]

The First Class trilogy has (more or less) wrapped up its story arcs now. So new story arcs are needed. Not more of the same. It's to let go of the past and move forward...

X-Men has too many characters not properly serviced, I don't understand how it's still being argued that characters who've had a whole trilogy to themselves still NEED to be involved.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I don't want the X-Men in space. Hollywood's obsession with going bigger each time is not always a good thing. In this case, the franchise's capabilities with CGI, green screen and monster make-up were stretched to the limit. I think the box office is bringing things down to earth with a bump, and down to earth is where the franchise belongs.

It would take a far more skilled regime to pull off a space opera and i'm not sure the franchise would gain anything from it.

There Is defently a possibilty fox after weapon x hit sin march goes and focusing on Deadpool sequels,maybe gambit if director ever wants to focus on it,and do X-force.That doesn't hole much enthusim for me.

as for taking X-Men into outer space who knows if that will happen now.it depends on who does next X-men film assuming there is one again anytime soon.

 

[BeholdMe]

X-Men has too many characters not properly serviced, I don't understand how it's still being argued that characters who've had a whole trilogy to themselves still NEED to be involved.

I totally agree here. We need to develop the actual XMen that have next to no development.

 

[ApophènX]

No, that is the reason. Kinberg mentioned it in the Empire spoiler podcasts following DOFP.

Ok and i think it is for the best, him going bzck to nature fit more the theme of the movie for me and th character evolution, what i say still stand.

 

[ApophènX]

When it comes to Charles erasing Moiras memory I think you read to much symbolism into it when really that wasn't the point of it

It is just his path of redemption, those mistakes and the habit he took of controlling people and keeping secret from them (there since X1) is what brought the bad stuff. As for Moira discovering Apoc because of the memory stolen by Charles McAvoy even said it in an interview.

We still have two trilogy where it is often woman, Mystique and Moira who discovers the evil stuff and have the spy figure. Evil that is often made by men.

 

[GuestStar2004]

X-Men has too many characters not properly serviced, I don't understand how it's still being argued that characters who've had a whole trilogy to themselves still NEED to be involved.

Well if that's how it worked the Cyclops and Jean shouldn't have been in apoclaypse, but then people would say they NEED to be in it and be important characters and they were, so in the end certain characters didn't have that trilogy all to themselves.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It is just his path of redemption, those mistakes and the habit he took of controlling people and keeping secret from them (there since X1) is what brought the bad stuff. As for Moira discovering Apoc because of the memory stolen by Charles McAvoy even said it in an interview.

What interview was that?

 

[Smilodon]

Ok and i think it is for the best, him going bzck to nature fit more the theme of the movie for me and th character evolution, what i say still stand.

Wolverine doesn't return to nature at all in DOFP, but sure.

 

[superweirdo87]

"You can't just cut ALL those characters (though Jubilee could have been cut completely) because the X-Men are a team who need more than one opponent to go up against. Therefore, there will need to be multiple characters in the movie."

There do need to be multiple characters, but there should be one or two who are focused on and you can have a team of five and a villain. Having as many characters as XMA did is not workable.

"In addition, Apocalypse always has his four horsemen, with Archangel typically among them and expected to be there. The only way around the challenge of characterising those four horsemen (and failing in this case, as Angel, Psylocke and Storm were not very well characterised) would be to scrap the four we got and instead keep the original horsemen from the opening sequence - they could have been entombed alongside Apocalypse and wake up with him. I don't think those original four would need much characterisation."

This is why the Apocalypse storyline should have been a two-parter and was not a good choice for this juncture. If they wanted to conclude a mini-trilogy for the First Class group and introduce young Scott and Jean in the movie after DOFP, they shouldn't have done Apocalypse. That should have been something when characters that span multiple movies did not need to be introduced.

"What happened was that Magneto got too much screentime (and spent the climax mostly hovering in his magnetic force bubble), while the other three were shafted. Lack of balance."

Balance is not the problem, and trying to achieve it would not have changed the fundamental problem which is too many characters. With 130 minutes, and 12 characters, you don't get enough time with ANYONE if you try to balance the movie. I would guess that Magneto got 25-35 minutes of screen time. Let's say that he got 10 minutes instead. That would have cut short his story. If the rest of it was divided between the three other horsemen, they would have gotten a couple of scenes. This would help with motivations, which is a plus. But, it would not be enough for a narrative and meaningful arc for those characters. Balance is not the problem. Too many characters all dividing up screen time such that none of them are explored in depth. McAvoy got more screentime in DOFP than Magneto got in XM:A. The problem was too many characters and not enough room to breathe.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't want the X-Men in space. Hollywood's obsession with going bigger each time is not always a good thing. In this case, the franchise's capabilities with CGI, green screen and monster make-up were stretched to the limit. I think the box office is bringing things down to earth with a bump, and down to earth is where the franchise belongs.

It would take a far more skilled regime to pull off a space opera and i'm not sure the franchise would gain anything from it.

You are right a different regime would have to do it... and the franchise needs it. By going smaller, you are going back to what the X-Men films have already been in the past. You need to shake things up in a major way, or the diminishing returns from more of the same will continue.

 

[Zarex]

With deadpools success being because he is deadpool then setting a film with a new cast in present day would make very little difference to the franchise and its box office, well unless you add deadpool to the mix while he is continuing to be popular and he can carry the movies till you milk him dry.

Otherwise it makes very little difference whether it's in present day or not, and just to correct you there was never that risk, deadpool success is very much deadpools own

The benefit of having your characters occupy the same time period is that you can cross them over into other franchises. Deadpool increased fan interest in Colossus and Negasonic, and his star power can do likewise with Cable and the members of X-Force. Those characters can be spun off into other films. Having a star attraction is everything, and with Jackman retiring Wade is the Man.

 

[ApophènX]

Wolverine doesn't return to nature at all in DOFP, but sure.

In XMA. In DoFP he ends up like Jean in X2. Bottom of a lake. In XMA Jean saved him where in X3 he saved her, in his own way. They twisted it.

It is a very profound message on man innabilities to end up a relationship properly ^^ honestly Logan has been all about memory since X1 and Jean giving him back memory to cure him was the best ending he could have.

 

[Smilodon]

In XMA not DoFP, in the last one he ends like Jean in X2. In XMA Jean saved him where in X3 he saved her, in his own way. They twisted it.

It is a very profound message on man innabilities to end up a relationship properly ^^ honestly Logan has been all about memory and Jean giving him back memory to cure him was the best ending he could have.

That's fine and all, but we were discussing Days of Future Past.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The benefit of having your characters occupy the same time period is that you can cross them over into other franchises. Deadpool increased fan interest in Colossus and Negasonic, and his star power can do likewise with QQCable and the members of X-Force. Those characters can be spun off into other films. Having a star attraction is everything, and with Jackman retiring Wade is the Man.

increased fan interest? There was never not "fan" interest as fans are fans for a reason but the casual audience likely wasn't seeing deadpool for colossus or negasonic

And you do not want to take deadpool in the same direction as you did wolverine because there are still people who think wolverine is the X-Men and him not being in the movie is just a weird thing for them.

 

[X-Maniac]

I see the gatherinf of the horsmens has a parralel to Charles wrong doing.

First Apocalypse get Storm whom is a thief, like Charles who stole Moira memories.

Second he get Psylocke and set her out of the control of Caliban, Charles let go of his control over Mystique in DoFP and will let of control over Jean.

Then Angel, rise my angel, he enhance is power and Charles will repeat his words to set free Jean and the Phoenix. (Both bird figure, this also echoes X3 where Angel mirrored Jean's will to get free but Charles wasn't approving).

And then Erik who told everything to his wife first day, no lies. And took care of his daughter. Erik and Charles both reassure their daighter in bed in the movie (Jean is a daughter figure to Charles).

Apocalypse is doing everything Charles should have done. And Charles to destroy him will have to repeat his words "unleash your power", words Mystique already spoke. I see Apocalypse as the repressed memory that is why Moira discover him. And Jean will finish him. Both with fire/sun.

Charles's wife and daughter are Moira and Jean. In the scene where Scott destroy the tree we see Jean shooting an arrow, the in the scene she had her nightmare we see a picture of a forest burning and birds of paper close to the window. In the next scene we have erik's daughter killed by an arrow while summoning birds in the forest.

Apocalypse has a speech about burning the forest to the ground.

They made a lot of connections and they did not spell it out. You canno't say this would have been better (changing the horsmen) when they though the thing as a whole. They are clearly flaws in dialogue or scene cut out, ok. But there is information if you look for it and it make sense. I thought that wzs bold on them, to tell something with images and details other lots of dialogues. They choose cheezy dialogues. The movies has flaws but i don't think the choosing of the horsemens are it

I very much like your analysis of the symbolism in the move, but I do think the final packaged product was a bit flawed (in editing, writing and dialogue) which is why it's had a mixed reception.

 

[marvelrobbins]

You are right a different regime would have to do it... and the franchise needs it. By going smaller, you are going back to what the X-Men films have already been in the past. You need to shake things up in a major way, or the diminishing returns from more of the same will continue.

There remains danger new regime would make X_men in name only.

right now franchise is up In the air.so if there is another full X-Men film noone knows who would do it.

 

[ApophènX]

That's fine and all, but we were discussing Days of Future Past.

and so i already answered your question. In ly first statement about Magneto and the sentinels sending Logan to the lake. I then linked it with hpthe awakening of Apocalypse who also got healing powers before he was burried.

And made the point about the inversion they did with lan and woman in x3 and XMA.

 

[ApophènX]

I very much like your analysis of the symbolism in the move, but I do think the final packaged product was a bit flawed (in editing, writing and dialogue) which is why it's had a mixed reception.

I'm totally with you, loads of flaws. Dialogues, rythm and some actor's play. But overal those are things i would like to see more discuss, people tend to see what is wrong. Apocalypse is a bit messy but i though it went well with the Apocalypse theme, whom was a vilain straight out goofy and serious at the same time. I think they tried something bold, they did not suceed one hundred purcents, still a good run imo

 

[marvelrobbins]

increased fan interest? There was never not fan interest for at least colossus anyway but the casual audience wasn't seeing deadpool for colossus and they likely didn't leave the theater talking about how their favourite character was colossus

And you do not want to take deadpool in the same direction as you did wolverine because there are still people who think wolverine is the X-Men and him not being in the movie is just a weird thing for them.

at least wolverine was hte most popular X-man,yes i know that's inconvent fact but it's the truth,but now people want franchise to be all about deadpool who isn't even an X-man.Back In 1990's and early 2000's if you would have told people one day people would be claming for franchise to be all about deadpool they would have thought you were crazy.

Colossus In Deadpool was butt of jokes and to be punching bag for villains.
That Is fine for a solo deadpool film but people really want that for a X-men film.Who knows how Cable will be portrayed in sequel.

 

[superweirdo87]

True...

It hasn't surpassed any of the films with inflation and ticket prices taken into account.

According to BOM, the original X-Men is sitting at $250,395,500 today.

It might even struggle to beat First Class with inflation.

yeah, but theatrical attendance has declined and young people are less interested in going to see movies in theaters nowadays with streaming and smart phones

 

[YoungBlood]

yeah, but theatrical attendance has declined and young people are less interested in going to see movies in theaters nowadays with streaming and smart phones

Not our fault that movie tickets are expensive (especially 3D/IMAX), and that's not even getting into buying food inside.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Streaming and smart phones isn't cinema.