Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 5

[DavidHaller]

Amazingly, Chinese audiences know when they are being condescendingly pandered to.

why is it right away a form of condescending pandering if we introduce more Chinese/Asian characters in central roles? I see it more as two birds with one stone!

The X-Men universe has a lot of different mutants form different backgrounds. And changing the ethnicity of other characters would also help!

sorry, but the X-Men movies need a diversity debate ASAP!

 

[superweirdo87]

Agreed. In fact, of all the reviews I've read, McAvoy is typically one actor who didn't get mixed reviews. He was either complimented or just not mentioned but rarely criticized.

People seemed to rate Fassbender as epic or flat, but nothing in-between, which is weird. Considering Magneto spent most of the movie floating/brooding silently in a bubble, I say the man did as best he could with what he had.

Lots of bad reviews for JLaw, but honestly...look at what she had to work with. Her character had hardly any arc and most of it was so forced. "I'm not the hero"--"No, I am the hero." Blah.

Some reviewers said Fassbender looked bored, but many others praised him (Richard Roper, Time Out, Empire, Screen Crush.) I think Fassbender's acting was compelling in the early stuff with his family, and that it was the positive notices are about. The "flat" stuff is for after Apocalypse comes.

 

[Mad Ones]

yeah right, Psylocke is truely the right character to have this debate.

I am actually asking myself if the X-Men movies have to be understood as a form of "progressive racism":
Dominantly white male bodies position themselves centrally on a metaphorical level in the discourse around marginalized minorities.

Mostly pointing out that you basically said that Japanese and Chinese bodies are interchangeable.

And have you read the comics? Look who's central there.

 

[Erzengel]

Is this the sake for diversity or just so they could do well in the Chinese box office?

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

It's so frustrating that X-Men are about minorities literally there's mutants/characters from all 7 continents but they only focus on the white/blue characters (& throw Storm a bone or two because they have to)

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

And have you read the comics? Look who's central there.

All White Team - Gets Canceled

International Team - Saves the franchise

 

[DavidHaller]

Mostly pointing out that you basically said that Japanese and Chinese bodies are interchangeable.

And have you read the comics? Look who's central there.

what the hell...

actually bodies as "national bodies" are very much interchangeable! - That's called migration!!! I heard about people of Chinese orgin who are actually Japanese and live in Japan! SAY WHAT! Crazy right??? Since when are nationalities fixed entities and relate only to particular 'ethnic' bodies!?! gosh,...

and let's not pretend that Psylocke is even Japanese only because a white women jumped into a Japanese body and became successfully a racist Ninja stereotype! Maybe let's introduce (Vietnamese) KARMA instead?

Why are people so childish as soon as the topic diversity comes up? Hollywood blockbuster are in general extremely racist. (fullstop!) So let's introduce centrally some interesting non-white characters to the franchises.

 

[Loganbabe]

James was solid, but the script failed him.

As it failed Fassbender. But Fassbender still gets the praises.

In those films, McAvoy went from the flirty, arrogant, carefree Charles of First Class passing through the drugged, depressed phase of DOFP to the caring, fearless Charles of XMA. He's not only solid, he's good. And he remains almost unnoticed by critics.

 

[Sithborg]

Umm, the Japanese/Chinese differences is actually quite important. And China has more than one ethnicity.

 

[Erzengel]

There's racism by South Koreans against North Koreans due to social, economical and physical differences.

To take liberties with Asian casting and assuming that a Chinese Actress can play a Japanese actress, just go back to when Memoirs of a Geisha came out.

 

[Sithborg]

Oh yeah, I saw some reactions about that when Ghost in the Shell was being discussed. Yeah, the Japanese were not pleased with that at all.

 

[DavidHaller]

I don't think the real problems is infront of the camera. But that mainly white men are directing and producing these movies and telling the stories they care about.

Maybe we simply have to start offering more black, Asian, Latin directors the chance to direct these mainstream movies and everything else will fall into place...!

I don't think it helps to produce particular 'ethnic slots': Japanese actresses are allowed to play full-fledged Japanese characters but nothing else...Black directors are asked to direct black superheroes but nothing else...etc.etc.

 

[jaymes_e06]

All White Team - Gets Canceled

International Team - Saves the franchise

You know that'snot the right giant size cover right?

It's this one:

 

[Mad Ones]

All White Team - Gets Canceled

International Team - Saves the franchise

Immediately kills off indigenous character. Makes the Japanese character proud and arrogant and he leaves the team. Leaving a team of all white people and Storm (and Nightcrawler but if you want blue representation then Apocalypse is the movie for you). New Mutants is a better example for the point you want to prove, but it's still an auxiliary title.

what the hell...

actually bodies as "national bodies" are very much interchangeable! - That's called migration!!! I heard about people of Chinese orgin who are actually Japanese and live in Japan! SAY WHAT! Crazy right??? Since when are nationalities fixed entities and relate only to particular 'ethnic' bodies!?! gosh,...

and let's not pretend that Psylocke is even Japanese only because a white women jumped into a Japanese body and became successfully a racist Ninja stereotype! Maybe let's introduce (Vietnamese) KARMA instead?

Why are people so childish as soon as the topic diversity comes up? Hollywood blockbuster are in general extremely racist. (fullstop!) So let's introduce centrally some interesting non-white characters to the franchises.

WTF you were talking as if all of Asia was the same. I agree with you on Psylocke being a racist stereotype and I never argued anything there (this character has a hugely problematic and cringy history). Still, you want to hire a Chinese actress to play a Japanese character, and are now justifying it because of migration? Do you know anything about the region? Who's being childish here? Maybe the person using excessive exclamation marks and typing in all caps. You do know I agree with your last two sentences. And agree to shift the focus to a character like Karma because I can't talk about Psylocke without spinning.

 

[superweirdo87]

As it failed Fassbender. But Fassbender still gets the praises.

In those films, McAvoy went from the flirty, arrogant, carefree Charles of First Class passing through the drugged, depressed phase of DOFP to the caring, fearless Charles of XMA. He's not only solid, he's good. And he remains almost unnoticed by critics.

You might enjoy this.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/who-looks-the-most-bored-in-x-men-apocalypse.html

 

[chamber-music]

I don't think the real problems is infront of the camera. But that mainly white men are directing and producing these movies and telling the stories they care about.

Maybe we simply have to start offering more black, Asian, Latin directors the chance to direct these mainstream movies and everything else will fall into place...!

I don't think it helps to produce particular 'ethnic slots': Japanese actresses are allowed to play full-fledged Japanese characters but nothing else...Black directors are asked to direct black superheroes but nothing else...etc.etc.

We have some diversity for upcoming superhero movie directors.

Tim story directed the first two fox fantastic four films, james wan is directing aquaman, Rick is directing flash and ryan coogler is directing black panther. Del Toro directed the hellboy films.

 

[chamber-music]

Amazingly, Chinese audiences know when they are being condescendingly pandered to.

Yep. They complained about how the Chinese actors were marketed as being a big part of iron man 3 when they were not.

Many Chinese people see straight through Hollywood's shameless pandering. I've seen Chinese actors such as megastar Andy lau say they don't want to work with Hollywood because they only offer them nothing roles to lure in Chinese audiences.

Wang jinlin who is china's richest man owns legendary studios complained about Hollywood's pandering bs as well.

 

[Zarex]

We have some diversity for upcoming superhero movie directors.

Tim story directed the first two fox fantastic four films, james wan is directing aquaman, Rick is directing flash and ryan coogler is directing black panther. Del Toro directed the hellboy films.

Taika Waititi on Thor:Ragnarok

 

[metaphysician]

Stupid question, but what X-Men are there who are of Chinese descent? I can think of Japanese X-Men, and Vietnamese X-Men, but none that are Chinese offhand.

 

[Erzengel]

Jubilee and Xorn are Chinese.
Psylocke is Japanese by way of mysticism.
Sunfire, Armor is Japanese.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Stupid question, but what X-Men are there who are of Chinese descent? I can think of Japanese X-Men, and Vietnamese X-Men, but none that are Chinese offhand.

 

[X-Maniac]

There's plenty of opportunity for GOOD ethnic diversity i.e. properly fleshed-out characters, if they really wanted to do it.

Given the amazing diversity of X-Men characters, the films seem to be operating within a very limited sphere, with occasional splashes of tokenism to add a black person here, a Chinese person there, but never making them more than a cool cut-out with a nice power moment or two.

With the significance of the Chinese market, I am astonished they don't try a bit harder...

 

[Nerial]

You might enjoy this.
http://www.vulture.com/2016/06/who-looks-the-most-bored-in-x-men-apocalypse.html

OMG, it pinpoints it exactly. Even Fassbender--bless his heart, he gives his all when there's something to give, but by the end of the moving, he's literally just floating in a bubble. What on earth do you expect from the guy???

And McAvoy--some of his lines were so awful, but he tried--really tried--and even elevated some of the crappy material to be half-decent.

I would criticize JLaw for phoning it in, expect any actor in her shoes would have done the same. Meryl Streep would have phoned it in.

The script for this movie was the real poisoned-tipped dart here. Not the actors.

 

[DavidHaller]

There's plenty of opportunity for GOOD ethnic diversity i.e. properly fleshed-out characters, if they really wanted to do it.

Given the amazing diversity of X-Men characters, the films seem to be operating within a very limited sphere, with occasional splashes of tokenism to add a black person here, a Chinese person there, but never making them more than a cool cut-out with a nice power moment or two.

With the significance of the Chinese market, I am astonished they don't try a bit harder...

it makes it even more bizarre that they use these tokenism characters quite centrally to promote the movie although they are barely in it and are totally sidelined...

at least there seem to be a particular interest in jewish characters: Iceman, Kitty Pryde and Magneto. But this also does not really count because neither Iceman nor Kitty are shown to be jewish in the movies...

 

[kasjan]

It's so frustrating that X-Men are about minorities literally there's mutants/characters from all 7 continents but they only focus on the white/blue characters (& throw Storm a bone or two because they have to)

That's why I want Sunfire and Thunderbird join in sequel.