Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 6

[iacobusleo]

Did we need it? No, did we need Spider-Mans introduction in civil war? Again no, it was just just a cool way to get wolverine in the movie, perhaps yes it took you out of the apocalypse story to perhaps set up his own next movie but that's the only real big issue with it.

But Spider Man didn't hijack an entire second act. He was merely there as a participant of a battle that was crucial to the story of the 'civil war', and his solo intro scene involved dialogue with a character that was actually important to the story, Tony.

Wolverine's cameo in contrast, necessitated the entire cast to be transplanted to a different story altogether, and then needed an extended fight sequence focusing solely on him. It's an awesome sequence, but it's time wasted when it could have developed the Horsemen. That's the issue, and it's only an issue because the Horsemen are so underdeveloped.

So should hey just skipped his origin and had him apart of the school, chances are you would have learnt even less about him that way just like X1, no matter how the origin was handled it was still a good starting point for the character to see his powers manifest to him being part of the school and meetin Jean.

Ok tell me, what did we actually learn about Cyclops from that scene? He went to school I guess? You get the same effect if we already had Cyclops entering Xavier's, blindfolded, and meeting Jean, and then we see dangerous his power is when he splits the tree in half.

Now if the opening scene was set in an orphanage, that would be a different story.

Well see to do it like that might not actually have given them more development, it would just glue them together as a couple and all we would know is that they are a couple, a couple who apparently decided to help apocalypse together

Maybe if they had shown that they knew each other in apocalypse that could have been something.

Yeah I guess with Kinberg writing it, introducing them as a couple would not have improved things. I was thinking along the lines of the script having a better writer when I suggested this.

Apocalypse did not do great numbers, but it came out better than many of its competitors in a summer of scorched earth. Ironically, this will make Fox more inclined to double down on making more movies in this series. Again though, hopefully better ones too.

Agreed totally with everything you said. I wonder why this summer was so bad though? Has the hyped films like Deadpool, BvS and Civil War being released early in the year burned everyone out?

 

[GuestStar2004]

But Spider Man didn't hijack an entire second act. He was merely there as a participant of a battle that was crucial to the story of the 'civil war', and his solo intro scene involved dialogue with a character that was actually important to the story, Tony.

He didn't hijack it but for the most part that scene was used as an introduction, it took the story aside to show here is the new peter parker, here is his aunt and he has been spider-man for a little while now, did it need to be there? not really, i remember even early on there was talk that those scenes may not even make it to the movie

Ok tell me, what did we actually learn about Cyclops from that scene? He went to school I guess? You get the same effect if we already had Cyclops entering Xavier's, blindfolded, and meeting Jean, and then we see dangerous his power is when he splits the tree in half.

We learnt when his powers manifested, its pretty much the same idea as singer was gonna do for X1 originally

Yeah I guess with Kinberg writing it, introducing them as a couple would not have improved things. I was thinking along the lines of the script having a better writer when I suggested this.

I know its easy to jump on that kinberg wagon but i think that is more a bryan singer thing than a kinberg thing tbh, i am pretty sure if bryan wanted more there would have been more in it just like replacing juggernaut for quicksilver in DOFP which was bryan basically saying i think we should change this and he and kinberg changed it

 

[Zant]

The China numbers alone will make Fox think of future potential.

The China numbers were surprising. It made more than Xmen DOFP there with no pandering to the Chinese audience like DOFP did and had to face Warcraft 5 days after release there.

 

[iacobusleo]

I know its easy to jump on that kinberg wagon but i think that is more a bryan singer thing than a kinberg thing tbh, i am pretty sure if bryan wanted more there would have been more in it just like replacing juggernaut for quicksilver in DOFP which was bryan basically saying i think we should change this and he and kinberg changed it

Singer suggests things and concepts yes but it seems like he doesn't or can't make extensive changes to the script. X1 had universally regarded clunky lines that he didn't remove (Do you know what happens when a toads get struck by lightning?). In contrast to Apocalypse, X2 and DOFP used its characters effectively. This seems, to me, that the quality of Singer's movies is dependent on the quality of the base script.

In contrast, Kinberg has been behind 2 movies (Last Stand and Apocalypse) which both had the same problems (ineffective use of characters), not to mention his scripts of other movies were never well-received on Rotten Tomatoes at least, and the script he did write that was well-received, he received help from Jane Goldman (according to his interviews).

So yeah I'm not saying I'm right, but the evidence is stacked against Kinberg's favour for me.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Singer suggests things and concepts yes but it seems like he doesn't or can't make extensive changes to the script. X1 had universally regarded clunky lines that he didn't remove (Do you know what happens when a toads get struck by lightning?).

But that's going by the idea he wanted that line out the script but for whatever reason couldn't do it which is probably not the case at all, even singer said he wrote a couple of things into the script himself so he did have his own hand in the script.

And i know he didn't write that toad line, that was a josh whedon line which whedon claims was directed wrong

In contrast to Apocalypse, X2 and DOFP used its characters effectively. This seems, to me, that the quality of Singer's movies is dependent on the quality of the base script.

And DOFP was also written by kinberg, yes he had both Vaughn and singer watching over the script but for the most part it's still his script.

Now whether kinberg is a good writer In general is one thing but it has to be remembered Singer does have the power to read the script and change whatever he wants, that's the thing about it, singer probably isn't being forced to direct a script he wasnt happy with

 

[iacobusleo]

But that's going by the idea he wanted that line out the script but for whatever reason couldn't do it which is probably not the case at all, even singer said he wrote a couple of things into the script himself so he did have his own hand in the script.

No, I used that example to show that Singer does not necessarily know what works and what doesn't, script-wise, hence why he needs a good base script to work with.

And DOFP was also written by kinberg, yes he had both Vaughn and singer watching over the script but for the most part it's still his script.

That's what I was referring to when I was talking about the one good script he wrote that was well-received. In his interview, he said he needed Jane Goldman to help him break down 2nd act. Also important to note that DOFP had a pretty clear focus: Half of the cast was in the future and all they had to do was fight. This allowed Kinberg to just zero in on the characters in the past, which is definitely less challenging. In contrast, he seems to struggle with the ensembles of Last Stand and Apocalypse.

Now whether kinberg is a good writer In general is one thing but it has to be remembered Singer does have the power to read the script and change whatever he wants, that's the thing about it, singer probably isn't being forced to direct a script he wasnt happy with

I think we actually both agree that it's a combination of both Singer and Kinberg, except the impression I get is that you seem to think Singer can identify a poor script when he sees one, but I'm not sure he does when he has the script and a billion other things to worry about during the movie production process. That's why the base script is important. I think we both agree though that Singer was never unhappy with the script of Apocalypse.

 

[Mystique's Leg]

XA could've very easily ended up on that list of 2016 blockbusters that really disappointed at the boxoffice. It could've been better, but it's far from a disaster. While not the best X-movie, it's not as bad as Tarzan, Turtles, Alice or Ghostbusters. So I'm kinda happy good movies get rewarded and bad movies not, in my opinion. I hope Star Trek Beyond will make more money. It deserves it. On the other hand, Suicide Squad is making too much money compared to its quality.

I think 'small' blockbusters like Deadpool are the road to go. They're fresh, original and a smaller budget sometimes challenges the makers to be creative.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think we actually both agree that it's a combination of both Singer and Kinberg, except the impression I get is that you seem to think Singer can identify a poor script when he sees one, but I'm not sure he does when he has the script and a billion other things to worry about during the movie production process. That's why the base script is important. I think we both agree though that Singer was never unhappy with the script of Apocalypse.

Well they likely wrote at least a draft of the script before even casting took place so there probably wasn't many to any production issues to worry about at that time

All i am really saying is that bryan singer is a director with strong opinions and is probably quite stubborn also judging by some of his cuts and critical character designs so he likely worked very closely with the script to help mold it to the point where until you listen to the commentary you probably won't know just how much bryan did guide the script.

 

[psylockolussus]

XA could've very easily ended up on that list of 2016 blockbusters that really disappointed at the boxoffice. It could've been better, but it's far from a disaster. While not the best X-movie, it's not as bad as Tarzan, Turtles, Alice or Ghostbusters. So I'm kinda happy good movies get rewarded and bad movies not, in my opinion. I hope Star Trek Beyond will make more money. It deserves it. On the other hand, Suicide Squad is making too much money compared to its quality.

I think 'small' blockbusters like Deadpool are the road to go. They're fresh, original and a smaller budget sometimes challenges the makers to be creative.

The thing is Fox is not gonna say "oh X-Men: Apocalypse's underperformance is passable since there's a lot of films that underperformed" especially not all the films that underperformed came from. There was hardly a need to make movies such as Alice 2, Independence Day 2, Ben Hur reboot and a lot of people would argue that the latest Ghostbusters wasn't needed. Then TMNT2 was a sequel to a not so great movie. While Star Trek doesn't have a worldwide appeal compare to Star Wars and people have been saying paramount dropped the momentum when Into Darkness took 4 years to release. So there's a big reason why movies like those underperformed. Unlike Apocalypse, who followed 2 films that earned box-office success/great critical reception. And if you look at the films that outgrossed Apocalypse in North America, there's a big gap!

 

[Iceman]

The China numbers were surprising. It made more than Xmen DOFP there with no pandering to the Chinese audience like DOFP did and had to face Warcraft 5 days after release there.

Interesting. Do you know what the 2 China figures were for the 2 films?

 

[psylockolussus]

Apocalypse $120,765,095
Days of Future Past $116,450,000

Apocalypse might have outgrossed DOFP's China numbers, but Apocalypse is not even in China's top 10 this year. Its already at #13. It just goes to show how China's market keeps growing.

While DOFP ended up in China's 2014 top ten highest grossing films, at #6.

 

[Iceman]

Thanks. Looks like it's good for franchises too, especially if the series returns to its best.

 

[Zant]

Apocalypse $120,765,095
Days of Future Past $116,450,000

Apocalypse might have outgrossed DOFP's China numbers, but Apocalypse is not even in China's top 10 this year. Its already at #13. It just goes to show how China's market keeps growing.

While DOFP ended up in China's 2014 top ten highest grossing films, at #6.

I don't think FOX cares if its not in the top 10. It beat DOFP against all odds. Civil WAR did not match Ultron in China, despite most of the Avengers and Spiderman present. Batman V Superman could not even make 100 mil there. The growing Chinese market did not help much there.

 

[TheVileOne]

How much money does Fox actually get from China though? Not sure if it's accurate, but I read that studios only get about 25 percent of overseas grosses. Just saying.

It's why Warcraft still lost money even though it made $433 million worldwide.

 

[Micromind]

How much money does Fox actually get from China though? Not sure if it's accurate, but I read that studios only get about 25 percent of overseas grosses. Just saying.

It's why Warcraft still lost money even though it made $433 million worldwide.

^ That's abroad, generalizing statement.

Studio's share in overseas grosses varies from country to country, the countries where Fox / Disney / WB themselves have a presence and distribute the movie by themselves tend to get much more than 25 percent of the total gross over there.

In countries where the Studios have to rely on outside local movie distributor, the percentage earned is less. What is the average Overseas gross is not clearly known, we have only estimates.. that could be inaccurate.

 

[DavidHaller]

I guess that we haven't heard any official announcement yet for any X-Men sequel in the near future shows that FOX is not very happy about the current performance of "X-Men: Apocalypse" and has to figure out what they will do next?! Gambit also came to a halt and Deadpool & X-Force will probably become FOX's central concern now...

 

[Zant]

How much money does Fox actually get from China though? Not sure if it's accurate, but I read that studios only get about 25 percent of overseas grosses. Just saying.

It's why Warcraft still lost money even though it made $433 million worldwide.

Warcraft could not even make up to 50 mil domestic lol. That does not help matters. Legendary are in such an awkward position regarding making a sequel to that film.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I guess that we haven't heard any official announcement yet for any X-Men sequel in the near future shows that FOX is not very happy about the current performance of "X-Men: Apocalypse" and has to figure out what they will do next?

Quite honestly i think people are reading to much into nothing with that, i ain't quite sure what kind of announcment people are expecting? untill they have a bigger idea of what the next movie shall be i doubt we will hear anything

Its like with X-FORCE we know its likely to be made because of deadpol but we haven't been given a date for it, infact we havent been told all that much at all about it, will it come after Deadpool 2 or 3? there has been few reports beyond bryan or kinberg talking about it and thats about it.

i also think depending on when new mutants is set in the timeline they may wanna put the films out in a certain order and new mutants hasn't been started filming yet.

And Even if say FOX decides not to make a sequel to apocalypse, i am pretty sure they will but lets say don't take their anxiety pills and decide not to make a sequel, i don't think it will be the last we see of this cast, somehow they will be used again since the way they left off apocalypse seems abit open ended in many ways and just closing that off with apocalypse would be throwing quite abit away.

 

[Iceman]

^ That's abroad, generalizing statement.

Studio's share in overseas grosses varies from country to country, the countries where Fox / Disney / WB themselves have a presence and distribute the movie by themselves tend to get much more than 25 percent of the total gross over there.

In countries where the Studios have to rely on outside local movie distributor, the percentage earned is less. What is the average Overseas gross is not clearly known, we have only estimates.. that could be inaccurate.

Yes. Average gross wouldn't tell you much anyway unless your gross is evenly spread across all overseas countries regardless of size, so you make the same in China that you do in Luxembourg. If the average gross was 38% but you made the majority of your overseas gross in countries that yielded 25% that mean average gross isn't going to help. It's going to be weighted by where you did more business and every film has a unique profile for that.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't think FOX cares if its not in the top 10. It beat DOFP against all odds.

Like Apocalypse beat all the other X-Men films except for Deadpool/DOFP when it comes to worldwide success? You are not considering price inflation. Just because 1 film outgrossed another film doesn't make it more successful.

 

[TheNewSlayer]

Apocalypse is like Dracula, they've always come back. Maybe Cable could be on the next X-Men movie and come from the Future to tell the x-men that Apocalypse came back and they have to team up to defeat him on the future.

 

[Mystique's Leg]

Apocalypse always was kinda an obvious road to go and bound to appear on the big screen. I can imagine this time it's a bit more difficult to figure out where to go next. There are also the contracts of the FC characters and, yeah, the boxoffice is a factor.

I just want more young Jean, Cyclops, Storm and Nightcrawler. They should start from giving these characters strong storylines. Keep it simple and don't try to be 'bigger' than Apocalypse.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Apocalypse always was kinda an obvious road to go and bound to appear on the big screen. I can imagine this time it's a bit more difficult to figure out where to go next. There are also the contracts of the FC characters and, yeah, the boxoffice is a factor.

Apocalypse had been sitting on a shelf for a while so its obvious why using apocalypse seemed an obviously choice but with this film it wouldn't surprise me if as you say they don't know what the next story will be, whether they should do the phoenix saga, whether they should hold it off and do a different story and if so what story? whatever it is it wouldn't surprise me if singer through in some ideas.

 

[Wildcard]

I'll take 540 million as a mess any day.

I wouldn't. Not when $200+ million was spent on the film from production to marketing and the profits are split between various parties, especially in regards to overseas revenue.

 

[Alison Blaire]

X-men Apocalypse third week in Japan : $375,814