Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

[Havok83]

It would have been a direct sequel to Dofp. Like how Empire leads into Jedi. Anyway how would that be different than the recycling of material in the franchise?

bc the entire premise of DOFP was to change the dark future. It makes no sense have the heroes seemingly changed that dark future only to jump into the next film and guess what? Its a dark future anyway. What would have been the point of DOFP if nothing mattered? Rehashing that premise in the very next film would have been too much too soon.

 

[Legion]

bc the entire premise of DOFP was to change the dark future. It makes no sense have the heroes seemingly changed that dark future only to jump into the next film and guess what? Its a dark future anyway. What would have been the point of DOFP if nothing mattered? Rehashing that premise in the very next film would have been too much too soon.

Theres a lot of time between the 70s setting in DoFP and the happy ending. An AoA film would just show that things got worst before they got better.

They rewrote history when they travelled back in time. People who were heroes in the original timeline may be villains and vice versa. With the decade hopping theres plenty of room to allow for Apocalypse's take over and for the heroes to defeat him.

Oh and how about Magneto as an essential ally? Wouldn't it be cool to see that Magneto is just as important to a peaceful coexistence between mutants and humans as Xavier is? I think that would be much more refreshing than the "frenemy" that Xavier keeps letting off the hook for some reason.

 

[Frankeh]

I disagree, the mystique and nightcrawler stuff was used to introduce angel and bring nightcrawler into the fold aswell as explain what mystique is doing in her life, the moira investigation is obviously for exposition so there is a voice to explain apocalypse to xavier and to the audience

But see, I feel all that could've been condensed if we simply gave Mystique the role of finding and awakening Apocalypse, and have Kurt at the mansion already (or don't use him at all), and dispose of Angel (I mean come on, he was a last minute addition!). That way we don't have to jump around through different character stories and the movie is more focused on the main plot which is Apocalypse and the origins of the three OT X-Men: Storm, Jean and Scott. Not Kurt and Jubilee too.

As I've said before, Moira isn't really needed in this story because Charles could've picked up Apocalypse's power surge through Cerebro anyway. Hank could've been afforded the exposition role - he researches everything, doesn't he?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Hank unfortunately doesn't seem to be nearly as bright, intuitive, or productive as his comic counterpart... We see things built, we just never see him working on anything. He's a nerd cliche... he's no Kelsey Grammar Smart. intuitive, classy yet humorously lovable beast at all.

he's scared, skittish, and certainly a follower more so than a leader.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Got this on pre-order, looking forward to seeing this again

 

[Havok83]

As I've said before, Moira isn't really needed in this story because Charles could've picked up Apocalypse's power surge through Cerebro anyway. Hank could've been afforded the exposition role - he researches everything, doesn't he?

Moira's inclusion was about tying up loose ends and bringing things back full circle. I think she was there more so for Xavier than the actual plot.

 

[Frankeh]

Moira's inclusion was about tying up loose ends and bringing things back full circle. I think she was there more so for Xavier than the actual plot.

True and understandable, but Singer and Kinberg needed to think of a better way to integrate her in the story.

Perhaps instead of him going to her, they could've had the CIA team up with Xavier once again after Apocalypse makes himself known to the world as a threat... like SHIELD cooperated with the X-Men in X-Men: Evolution. That could've been a more interesting plot point than friggin Alkali Lake again.

 

[EnDz0n3]

But see, I feel all that could've been condensed if we simply gave Mystique the role of finding and awakening Apocalypse, and have Kurt at the mansion already (or don't use him at all), and dispose of Angel (I mean come on, he was a last minute addition!). That way we don't have to jump around through different character stories and the movie is more focused on the main plot which is Apocalypse and the origins of the three OT X-Men: Storm, Jean and Scott. Not Kurt and Jubilee too.

As I've said before, Moira isn't really needed in this story because Charles could've picked up Apocalypse's power surge through Cerebro anyway. Hank could've been afforded the exposition role - he researches everything, doesn't he?

I agree with this, especially the highlighted part.

 

[Frankeh]

Furthermore: the three OT X-Men should've been recruited and trained in this movie by Xavier... in my holy opinion.

 

[DavidHaller]

I personally do not think that the first 1 h and 20 minutes of this movie are the problem at all. I think it actually was nicely done to show where all these characters ended up since "Days of Future Past" and how Apocalypse's awakening brings them together again.

The problems of this movie starts with the Weapon X non-sense/fanservice and the entire lame, badly edited third act.

The screenplay was simply way too weak.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I still find the Decade hopping really troublesome.. it causes the writting off of character development quite alot...

We did finally get Scott's origin, but i would have loved to of seen Jean's with her best friend getting hit by a car.

Would have liked to have seen Storm's being buried under a pile of rubble

there's just so much great story telling that's been skipped over... they could have hinted at a mystique/Azazel and dealt with the drama of Mystique giving away the baby...

there's just so much rich history and depth that unfortunately has been glossed over in these films. for the sake of power displays and having other characters over-used.

 

[DavidHaller]

I still find the Decade hopping really troublesome.. it causes the writting off of character development quite alot...

We did finally get Scott's origin, but i would have loved to of seen Jean's with her best friend getting hit by a car.

Would have liked to have seen Storm's being buried under a pile of rubble

there's just so much great story telling that's been skipped over... they could have hinted at a mystique/Azazel and dealt with the drama of Mystique giving away the baby...

there's just so much rich history and depth that unfortunately has been glossed over in these films. for the sake of power displays and having other characters over-used.

Especially Mystique giving away her baby because her life is too dangerous to be a mother could have made a great story for Mystique. But they can come back to this story in a later movie. In the comic book it was also not instantly recealed that Mystique and Nightcrawler are actually related...

But there is also a danger to overpower these movies with too much drama. You cannot have one movie showing all these dramatic origin scenes. It is too much...X-Men Apocalypse already became melodramatic with Magneto's story and I think it was a good decision not also introducing Jean, Scott and Storm by their dramatic origin stories...

 

[Stan Lee]

Speaking of Scott and Jean, I recently finished an analysis of their treatment in this series.

http://stay-tuned-true-believers.tu...cyclops-phoenixs-treatment-in-the-x-men-films

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think it's very possible to do the O5 origin of manifested powers (or using them) with a narration of Xavier...

- Scott (talking about danger and power, and his first student) similar visual origin as apocalypse, just faster and with Xavier rolling up to him before the scene cuts

- Iceman (fun and fear) like he's having fun and impressing his friends with ice-sculptures and then accidentally becomes a snowman himself causing everyone to runaway

- Angel (hiding ones abilities) angel concealing his feathers from his friends/family

- Storm (manifesting during moments of emotional stress), a building collapses, and you see her face crying, and a hand sticking up through the rubble.. with snow beginning to fall

- Beast (Heroics and shame, needing saved from ones self), beast being celebrated as a football star but then shown trying to cure himself and the last shot is him in the dark with eyes glowing and a small hint of blue fur

- Jean (uncontrolable power) showing jean and a friend playing in the front yard.. and her friend suddenly getting hit with a car... jean has a telekenetic explosion.. things begin to float... she feints and everything falls. from her perspective her eyes open, and it's Xavier and a human form Hank in the grey home. Jean's parents agree to have Xavier take her... and the scene cuts to them rolling up to the mansion... Xavier says welcome home, scott waves at her outside with Warren, Ororro and Bobby and she smiles... and gets out of the car.

as she walks away.. beast's image inducer shuts off and he's in his blue form (he only uses it in public situations)

the whole scene could easily be written to flow quite nicely with the narrative

 

[Frankeh]

there's just so much great story telling that's been skipped over... they could have hinted at a mystique/Azazel and dealt with the drama of Mystique giving away the baby...

there's just so much rich history and depth that unfortunately has been glossed over in these films. for the sake of power displays and having other characters over-used.

That's exactly why I'm now more in the pro-rights reversion side. I'll still defend the good X-Men movies, but it looks like the improvements I wanted to see in Apocalypse will never come to fruition. And now the franchise is stuck in an endless loop of retcons.

When you see how Singer has refused to explore the Mystique/Nightcrawler relationship not once but twice, how he failed to deliver the Magneto/Quicksilver relationship not once but twice, how he finally had the Summers brothers together only to kill one of them, how he gave Storm brown hair, how he treated Angel and Jubilee in this movie, it really is hard not to question his capacity to appease the majority of the fanbase. We're back in X3: The Last Stand times. They'll need another FC miracle.

 

[EnDz0n3]

No more FC please

 

[2kt09]

That's exactly why I'm now more in the pro-rights reversion side. I'll still defend the good X-Men movies, but it looks like the improvements I wanted to see in Apocalypse will never come to fruition. And now the franchise is stuck in an endless loop of retcons.

That's if we get yet another First Class which does over what this trilogy did.
ex: Mystique & Quicksilver inexplicably on some brotherhood at the start led by Magneto.
I went into Apoc expecting a Roiland Emmerich style flick with little-no backstory dumps and some character interplay thrown in.

When you see how Singer has refused to explore the Mystique/Nightcrawler relationship not once but twice

Well, no teases at all. Did I miss an easter egg?

how he failed to deliver the Magneto/Quicksilver relationship not once but twice

Oh that reluctant bond that would kinda sorta...well would be incredibly awkward than touching if at the pivotal scene he just says 'I'm your son'.

how he finally had the Summers brothers together only to kill one of them

Alex Summers is OT Scott Summers

how he gave Storm brown hair

STOP THE PRESSES!

how he treated Angel and Jubilee in this movie

I am trying to think of what more could have been done with Angel in the context of this story. Jubilee was a waste of space.

it really is hard not to question his capacity to appease the majority of the fanbase. We're back in X3: The Last Stand times. They'll need another FC miracle.

Not even close and please no, one was bad enough. Even with X3 I wanted the franchise to continue off from that because the status quo would have been so refreshing.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I had no interest a follow up to X3, after killing off cyclops and jean, the rogue,bobby and kitty love triangle stuff was a mess which even in the rogue cut of DOFP i felt was abit messy and colossus just being the quiet muscle? what was the point?

The franchise did need a FC, basically fresh blood injected into the franchise and a fresh starting point to move forward and honestly i think apocalypse already ended with one so i don't see that as an issue at all.

Because of the lack of planning with FC it started out as a prequel with bits of loose continuity where the characters were in different places in their lives with the question of how they become who they did in X1 and that idea pretty much continued to Apocalypse with the only difference being that they decided to reduce the prequel elements quite abit with the time travel excuse so they had more freedom to do what they wanted.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Oh that reluctant bond that would kinda sorta...well would be incredibly awkward than touching if at the pivotal scene he just says 'I'm your son'.

Its one of those things where because of the comics you just think TELL HIM YOU ARE HIS SON AND THEN WE CAN GET COMIC MAGNETO AND QUICKSILVER RELATIONSHIP ALREADY!!!, but you have to stop and think about it through the point of view of where the characters currently are, magneto lost his wife and child and so quicksilver saying i am your son probably wouldn't be the mental cure it sounded like purely because you lost a daughter but hey you have a son now!

They kept the door open for that though, infact its very obvious they left that door wide open.

I am trying to think of what more could have been done with Angel in the context of this story. Jubilee was a waste of space.

With angel i think he was intentionally made to be different to the X3 counterpart so he basically was just archangel from the start

 

[DavidHaller]

I re-read "X-Tinction Agenda" and "Bloodties" last week.

I think the next movie should be helmed again by Singer and discuss the Genosha conflict in detail. After X-Men: Apocalypse, I think that X-Men movie fans do not want to have more comic-book accuracy but more focus on the political weight of the franchise that was developed by Singer so beautifully in X1, X2 and Days of Future Past. The market is too saturated to go a similiar route like Marvel and DC.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think that X-Men movie fans do not want to have more comic-book accuracy but more focus on the political weight of the franchise that was developed by Singer so beautifully

You are pretty much splitting half a fan base right there since X-men fans are always going to want any comic accuracy they can get and they will likely Choose it first and foremost over political weight, it's just natural.

And thing is since this franchise has been going on 16 years now with its ups and downs there are gonna be people who want to see the franchise go abit the comic booky with it's action and costumes and there will be people who are very attached to the grounded approach singer set up and want to keep with that so It's gonna be a case now of either balancing to two or leaving one behind.

 

[DavidHaller]

You are pretty much splitting half a fan base right there since X-men fans are always going to want any comic accuracy they can get and they will likely Choose it first and foremost over political weight, it's just natural.

And thing is since this franchise has been going on 16 years now with its ups and downs there are gonna be people who want to see the franchise go abit the comic booky with it's action and costumes and there will be people who are very attached to the grounded approach singer set up and want to keep with that so It's gonna be a case now of either balancing to two or leaving one behind.

I'm just wondering why those fans did not show up for "X-Men:Apocalypse" then (and the critics hated it)? The movie's marketing emphasized all this comic book madness with a ridiculous character like Apocalypse and Psylocke's sexist comicbook swimsuit outfit? But the audience was not there for it.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I'm just wondering why those fans did not show up for "X-Men:Apocalypse" then (and the critics hated it)? The movie's marketing emphasized all this comic book madness with a ridiculous character like Apocalypse and Psylocke's sexist comicbook swimsuit outfit? But the audience was not there for it.

Things obviously to take into consideration, deadpool was well received and made money, it had no political undertones, and while most will say it did well because it's comic accurate, no most the people who see it and liked it likely had no idea what was comic accurate and what wasn't, it was just that they liked and had fun with the movie.

Same with Logan, if it does well with its more grounded approach it will be because people were drawn in by the trailers and enjoyed it but as for whether the grounded approach is better or not. .. That will also depend how many people see it to say whether that approach was more attractive.

There is no right answer, apocalypse probably struggled for many reasons as singer movies are often to a particular taste and style like superman returns wasn't the big superman blockbuster people felt we should have got in this day and age since all the other directors who were once attached had giant robots and stuff in mind, but not singer, he was attached to the idea of the 1979 movie formula and didn't wanna go outside of that.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I re-read "X-Tinction Agenda" and "Bloodties" last week.

I think the next movie should be helmed again by Singer and discuss the Genosha conflict in detail. After X-Men: Apocalypse, I think that X-Men movie fans do not want to have more comic-book accuracy but more focus on the political weight of the franchise that was developed by Singer so beautifully in X1, X2 and Days of Future Past. The market is too saturated to go a similiar route like Marvel and DC.

since when are either of those mutually exclusive? Something can't be like the comic and carry political weight????

that's absurdity. it's not a pick or choose one or the other.. a great X-men film would have both. You take the characters and their history seriously. this isn't 2002 its 2016 and it's been done multiple times in other franchises already.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm just wondering why those fans did not show up for "X-Men:Apocalypse" then (and the critics hated it)? The movie's marketing emphasized all this comic book madness with a ridiculous character like Apocalypse and Psylocke's sexist comicbook swimsuit outfit? But the audience was not there for it.

the film has to look more than it being comic book accurate. Many were still turned off by apocalypse in general (his look, his voice etc), many were still turned off by Mystique, many still turned off by the fact the franchise has become predictable....

its not one reason. but several. That and the film wasn't very good.. so word of mouth did not help