Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

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That's just a theory of yours, dude. Now Jean's black eyes in The Last Stand count when Singer had always portrayed her Phoenix powers different in film, including in Apocalypse? Instead of explaining it only points out the weaknesses of the writing in that details like powers are vague and unexplained.

Its my theory that Cerebro is build to enhance psi powers? Its been stated several times through out the series, dude. Its not a weakness in writing if people forgot about certain details.

Her Phoenix powers are not linked to her psi powers as its stated in the film. Its "something else".

The black eyes were connected to Charles' powers. That's why you see the guys he used his telepathy have them.
 
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Because Charles snapped out of it due to Hank intervening like Ororo and Erik would later on.

Magneto's eyes didn't turn black for the same reason his hair didn't turn white or grew metal wings. Its not part of his mutation.

Its more subtle with Magneto. He comes becomes oddly "somnolent" after the is made a horsemen if you look closely and it really makes no sense for him to follow Apocalypse. Its more obvious with Storm who wants to be a hero and believes that killing won't change the world, to being down with Apocalypse's plan after the power-up and giving menacing looks.

According to Singer months prior to the film's release this was deliberately left vague.

It's "subtle" to a point that I don't believe it's part of the movie. I'll be frank, attributing this inconsistency to their different mutations seems like a flimsy excuse. And if all of this is true, it is a clear mistake on Singer's part. I understand being seduced with power, but what Charles underwent was so clearly portrayed in a different manner that it renders your argument void. Care to find that quote for me?
 
It's "subtle" to a point that I don't believe it's part of the movie. I'll be frank, attributing this inconsistency to their different mutations seems like a flimsy excuse. And if all of this is true, it is a clear mistake on Singer's part. I understand being seduced with power, but what Charles underwent was so clearly portrayed in a different manner that it renders your argument void. Care to find that quote for me?

Its more noticeable on the second viewing. The black eyes are linked to his telepathy as the men Chuck controls also get them. I don't see how it was portrayed in a different manner. Because Charlies looks and sounds like he is being seduced by power.

jHTTDjV.gif

And in conjunction with this scene with Psylocke it seemed clear to me that Apocalypse was seducing people with power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOdUuGi1BNI

Here is the quote.

He has various abilities and powers, one of them, like [Apocalypse actor Oscar Isaac said during the Comic-Con panel], is the power of persuasion, and part of why that's necessary is he needs other followers to be his Horsemen, and some of them would be hard to persuade—Magneto, Erik being the hardest. It's interesting, what's a little bit, hopefully, complex in the movie, or even ambiguous, is how much he's persuading his followers with a superhuman ability or just he's like any cult leader who is really good at convincing people to follow him, so we don't really ever make that explicit. It's not like he's putting people under a spell, but he is superhumanly persuasive.
 
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Its more noticeable on the second viewing. The black eyes are linked to his telepathy as the men Chuck controls also get them. I don't see how it was portrayed in a different manner. Because Charlies looks and sounds like he is being seduced by power.

jHTTDjV.gif

And in conjunction with this scene with Psylocke it seemed clear to me that Apocalypse was seducing people with power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOdUuGi1BNI

Charles didn't look like he was being seduced by power, it looked and sounded like he was being controlled.

I just re-watched the scene. It's abundantly clear that this is Apocalypse's doing as he is the one narrating the scene and guiding the destruction. All of it is clearly his doing as Charles has no reason to blow up submarines or rid the earth of weapons; that's Apocalypse's MO apparently, as he spells out exactly why he wants this to happen.

And if that weren't enough, Beast flat out says that someone else took control of Cerebro.

Case closed. Charles is not responsible for the deaths on the submarine, and he should have taken in Eric for killing millions.

Here is the quote.

Thanks for tracking that down. The concept that he describes in this quote is interesting, but it is not what happened in this case.
 
Charles didn't look like he was being seduced by power, it looked and sounded like he was being controlled.

Then why does he mention feeling incredible power in that scene...while smiling?

I seriously want you to answer this question.

I just re-watched the scene. It's abundantly clear that this is Apocalypse's doing as he is the one narrating the scene and guiding the destruction. All of it is clearly his doing as Charles has no reason to blow up submarines or rid the earth of weapons; that's Apocalypse's MO apparently, as he spells out exactly why he wants this to happen.

That's Apocalypse "persuading" Xavier to do that stuff. Chuck was looking into his mind remember? Apocalypse was communicating with Charles like Erik was in that same scene.

Storm also didn't have a reason to follow Apocalypse. She was even shown against Apocalypse's plan. But after that power upgrade she played ball. That's the power of persuasion Singer was talking about.

And if that weren't enough, Beast flat out says that someone else took control of Cerebro.

Case closed. Charles is not responsible for the deaths on the submarine, and he should have taken in Eric for killing millions.

That actually helps my case...He took over Cerebro, not Chuck. Do you remember what Cerebro does? Its a device used to enhance Charles' powers. Stated many times throughout the X-films. Cerebro itself doesn't control people, just enhances them. That is why Chuck says that line about feeling great power in that scene.

I already mentioned this in an earlier post.

Xavier was also a murder in this movie after he blew up those submarines. And before you say anything, the only thing the corrupted Cerebro did was increase his power like in the previous movies.



Thanks for tracking that down. The concept that he describes in this quote is interesting, but it is not what happened in this case.

Now here is the rundown of the scene:

-Apocalypse takes control of a power amplifying device.
-Chuck says this is the greatest power he has ever felt.
-Apocalypse then "persuades" him into getting rid of military weapons.

Its pretty much like the scenes with Storm, Psylocke, and Angel. They all drunk the Kool-aid after getting a tease of the power Apocalypse gave them.
 
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Then why does he mention feeling incredible power in that scene...while smiling?

I seriously want you to answer this question.

That's Apocalypse "persuading" Xavier to do that stuff. Chuck was looking into his mind remember? Apocalypse was communicating with Charles like Erik was in that same scene.

Storm also didn't have a reason to follow Apocalypse. She was even shown against Apocalypse's plan. But after that power upgrade she played ball. That's the power of persuasion Singer was talking about.

That actually helps my case...He took over Cerebro, not Chuck. Do you remember what Cerebro does? Its a device used to enhance Charles' powers. Stated many times throughout the X-films. Cerebro itself doesn't control people, just enhances them. That is why Chuck says that line about feeling great power in that scene.

I already mentioned this in an earlier post.

Now here is the rundown of the scene:

-Apocalypse takes control of a power amplifying device.
-Chuck says this is the greatest power he has ever felt.
-Apocalypse then "persuades" him into getting rid of military weapons.

Its pretty much like the scenes with Storm, Psylocke, and Angel. They all drunk the Kool-aid after getting a tease of the power Apocalypse gave them.

Charles said he's never felt power like that before because he's never encountered a mutant as powerful as Apocalypse. It's a stretch to say he's smiling here.

jHTTDjV.gif

Charles is able to beg the others to destroy Cerebro, but isn't able to stop himself from controlling Cerebro? When Charles gets the power upgrade, the first thing he decides to do is exactly what Apocalypse wants to happen? It's almost as if he doesn't have control over his own faculties, like someone else is controlling him....

I'm not going further down this route with you because the original point was that Charles letting Eric go was a dumb move both on Charles' part and the film-makers. This remains true. Magneto killed millions of people. What Charles did while he was controlled by Apocalypse is inconsequential to this discussion because he was not in control of himself, and you've done nothing but offer up your own personal interpretation of this scene as a rebuttal.

You are never going to convince me that Charles just decided to do Apocalypse's bidding in the same way that Magneto decided to go along with Apocalypse's plan because the film does not present these two moments in similar manners. To prove this, let's look at a few summaries the film and see what each has to say about this moment:

From the X-men Apocalypse Wiki:

En Sabah Nur uses the Cerebro to force several world leaders to launch Earth's entire nuclear arsenal into space so it can't be used against him.

From Wikipedia:

En Sabah Nur enters Xavier's mind while Xavier is using the mutant-locating computer Cerebro and, co-opting Xavier's powers, forces the global superpowers to launch their entire nuclear arsenals into space to prevent interference.



If what you are saying was truly their intention, we can just go ahead and add it on the long list of ways in which they dropped the ball this time around.
 
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Right i am new here so please dont be too harsh if this has already been brought up however i just discovered it and needed an answer and couldnt find one as of yet. So here goes.

On the x-men apocalypse DVD there is an easter egg where apocalypse simply says 'no more superpowers you can sling' and then it ends. Now from the short clip that is shown it plays like a blooper however the fact that it is separated from things like the gag reel and hidden in a way that means you can only find it if you were looking makes me feel that there's something more to it. So if anyone can help me figure out what that meaning is it would be fantastic. (By the way for those that own the DVD to find this easter egg go into the features, hover on the gag reel and press right a white capital A should appear, that's it just click it)
 
Charles said he's never felt power like that before because he's never encountered a mutant as powerful as Apocalypse. It's a stretch to say he's smiling here.

jHTTDjV.gif

You seriously believe Apocalypse is more powerful than Jean who defeated him with ease? :whatever:

Jean is the most power mutant Xavier has ever seen. He saw the events of X3, he knows what she is capable of and even says she has the greatest mind he has ever seen. That is why he told Jean to come found him and unleash her power because he knew Apocalypse was a wuss compared to her. Not to mention how can Charles tell how powerful Apocalypse is? Apocalypse is not even telepath so he can't sense how powerful he is.

In short: This is an interpretation that makes zero sense with the context of the film.

Charles is able to beg the others to destroy Cerebro, but isn't able to stop himself from controlling Cerebro? When Charles gets the power upgrade, the first thing he decides to do is exactly what Apocalypse wants to happen? It's almost as if he doesn't have control over his own faculties, like someone else is controlling him....

You can say the same thing about Storm, she gets a power upgrade and does whatever Apocalypse wants despite rejecting his offer at first. But later on Apocalypse explicitly states that he can't see into minds and control them like a telepath. Which rules out Charles having no control interpretation. Its more like he is so into the power he is feeling that he is not thinking straight, which we also saw that with Psylocke.

I'm not going further down this route with you because the original point was that Charles letting Eric go was a dumb move both on Charles' part and the film-makers. This remains true. Magneto killed millions of people. What Charles did while he was controlled by Apocalypse is inconsequential to this discussion because he was not in control of himself, and you've done nothing but offer up your own personal interpretation of this scene as a rebuttal.

You are never going to convince me that Charles just decided to do Apocalypse's bidding in the same way that Magneto decided to go along with Apocalypse's plan because the film does not present these two moments in similar manners. To prove this, let's look at a few summaries the film and see what each has to say about this moment:

From the X-men Apocalypse Wiki:



From Wikipedia:

Anyone can edit Wikipedia. I remember the time I saw fan-fiction on X-23's page saying she appeared in the Ultimate Universe. You really shouldn't use Wikipedia articles unless sources are cited in them and they check out.


If what you are saying was truly their intention, we can just go ahead and add it on the long list of ways in which they dropped the ball this time around.

Its pretty much turned out exactly like they wanted. They wanted to be ambiguous. Which I don't really agree with.
 
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so I guess we can say that the trailer was part of the problem then? People obviously have been excited for "X:A" after "Days of Future Past" but have been turned down by the horrible green screen CGI aesthetic (and bad reviews)...
 
^ the cgi in the trailers reminded me a bit of the F4 reboot trailers
 
The trailer put too much focus on JLaw. Who ironically was the most useless X-Men out of the group.
 
Belated reply. Still no internet.

Not really. Singer wanted us to debate about it. I already posted the interview stating so that he wanted it to be ambiguous.

Being intentional doesn't make it any better. This film didn't connect with a substantial amount of its audience, Singer made bad choices.


He took over Cerebro the same way he took over that TV and made it do its job better. And what is Cerebro's job? Enhancing Charles' powers, which has been stated repeatedly for 16 years. That's why Chuck says "I've never felt power like this before". So he was been empowered that very moment.

Who said anything about their silence? Quote the post, please.

I said looked and sounded like they were in a trance when ever they spoke. Storm sounded like a robot while Angel looked high as a kite.

There is also Storm's massive change in personality after the power-up as a big hint.

The horsemen don't display anywhere near enough personality before or after Apocalypse recruits them to say that there is a change in them. Flat-out disagree that they seem much different.

As for Charles in Cerebro, it's difficult to debate this because you believe that sequence can be compared to Apocalypse recruiting the horsemen when I believe it can't. This is because the Cerebro sequence is the only one that displays Apocalypse actually controlling minds.

Charles contacts Erik using Cerebro, and in doing so connects with Apocalypse's mind. Once connected, Apocalypse can use his technopathy to take control of Cerebro. The chamber changes colour as Apocalypse takes over. He is then free to invade people's minds and set off all the nukes. The black eyes represent those people who are being controlled by corrupted Cerebro. Charles is depicted as being forcefully taken over. He is shut down, and only comes to when Hank starts messing with the machine.

Apocalypse is very much the cult leader that Singer described. He identifies those who are lost and offers them a cause. He exploits weaknesses and grooms people, but he cannot control minds. Mind control is what he wants in the film afterall.

Charles is able to beg the others to destroy Cerebro, but isn't able to stop himself from controlling Cerebro? When Charles gets the power upgrade, the first thing he decides to do is exactly what Apocalypse wants to happen? It's almost as if he doesn't have control over his own faculties, like someone else is controlling him....

I'm not going further down this route with you because the original point was that Charles letting Eric go was a dumb move both on Charles' part and the film-makers. This remains true. Magneto killed millions of people. What Charles did while he was controlled by Apocalypse is inconsequential to this discussion because he was not in control of himself, and you've done nothing but offer up your own personal interpretation of this scene as a rebuttal.

You are never going to convince me that Charles just decided to do Apocalypse's bidding in the same way that Magneto decided to go along with Apocalypse's plan because the film does not present these two moments in similar manners.

Exactly this ^^

That was meant to set-up some drama with Quicksilver. Remember what his mother said about how he shouldn't be involved with his father because it wouldn't end well? What happened to that other family Magneto had and was involved with comes to mind doesn't it? That is why Quicksilver doesn't want to get involved with him in the end. He realized that his mother was right through the death of that family.

In the comics Quicksilver and Magneto had a dysfunctional relationship back when they were related.

A canon fodder family wasn't necessary to set up the problems of being Magneto's son. There's plenty of reasons to worry about that already.

Quicksilver's decision would be more understandable if it wasn't placed next to apocalyptic stakes. His silence here comes off as cowardly considering the world might be ending. More-so when him saying something could save the world.


DOFP wasn't even meant to be a culmination nor felt like it. It left major loose ends that needed to be tied with regards to Erik and Raven. Raven didn't come home and Erik didn't get the years wasted fighting Charles back. We didn't see them going on a better path. Not to mention there is also the case with Moria, another woman Xavier tried to control still had her mind being controlled. Beast didn't embrace himself. And Quicksilver and Magneto's relationship.

DOFP ended with Chuck saying that he has hope in those two changing. That ending doesn't sound like closure but set-up.

It paid off 14 years worth of continuity, with 14 years worth of cast, ending with an optimistic tone in the past segment, and a happy epilogue in 2023. It's damn near the dictionary definition of the term "culmination". It may not have felt that way to you, but a quick google search will lead to a bunch of write-ups on the film that disagree.

The major loose ends you mentioned aren't major at all. Magneto isn't a hero. His exit in DOFP is more than satisfactory, his speech hinting at the roots of the Brotherhood, but as always there's the potential to turn the corner. Mystique going “home” is not a lingering plot thread. DOFP had Charles give up trying to force her to do that, and finally allowing her to make her own decision. I don't recall anyone crying out for her to return to the mansion.

Right i am new here so please dont be too harsh if this has already been brought up however i just discovered it and needed an answer and couldnt find one as of yet. So here goes.

On the x-men apocalypse DVD there is an easter egg where apocalypse simply says 'no more superpowers you can sling' and then it ends. Now from the short clip that is shown it plays like a blooper however the fact that it is separated from things like the gag reel and hidden in a way that means you can only find it if you were looking makes me feel that there's something more to it. So if anyone can help me figure out what that meaning is it would be fantastic. (By the way for those that own the DVD to find this easter egg go into the features, hover on the gag reel and press right a white capital A should appear, that's it just click it)

Hey man. Welcome to the board.

I was a bit confused by this too. Singer mentions in the commentary that he had a phrase "going full Skeletor", for when he needed his characters to go really big and dramatic. This was one such scene. I think Oscar Issac swore a lot.
 
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His silence here comes off as cowardly considering the world might be ending. More-so when him saying something could save the world.

Thats a complicated one since there is quicksilver revealing that magneto is his father and instantly magneto should do what he did in the how it should have ended skit where he is instantly won over and over joyed that he has a son or there is the part where its not so much as simple as that given certain events that had happened like hey i know you lost your wife and daughter recently but its ok because i am the son you never knew you had.

The major loose ends you mentioned aren't major at all. Magneto isn't a hero. His exit in DOFP is more than satisfactory, his speech hinting at the roots of the Brotherhood, but as always there's the potential to turn the corner. Mystique going “home” is not a lingering plot thread. DOFP had Charles give up trying to force her to do that, and finally allowing her to make her own decision. I don't recall anyone crying out for her to return to the mansion.

Thing is the way DOFP ended wasn't so much that it was the best conclusion but more so it was the way people wanted to see the characters go, basically something that reminded them of comic aspects like mystique going off to have her own adventures or magneto to be a villain and goes off to set up the brotherhood, while apocalypse gave their stories an actual conclusion based on past events from 6 movies, mystique doesn't go with magneto who she was with in the OT, now she stays with charles instead and magneto doesn't go off and become the villain, he makes amends with charles which is something his older self in DOFP had regrets over them having wasted years on fighting.

It was a conclusion of 6 movies, it wasn't a comic set up for stories with those characters becoming those comic counter parts which is something people have a hard time separating i think, if its in the comics its ok to do but if it isn't then people are less willing to accept it
 
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problem is after DOFP the original trilogy nolonger matters.It was made clear In DOFP that if successful last 50 years would never happen.the wolverine at end of DOFP and Logan remembers it but that's it.and after Logan it has no connection at all to franchise going forward.

what they did with DOFP was erase everything not with first class cast so there was nothing to conderict future films with first class cast.

If Jackman didn't want to leave after one more wolverine solo film they wanted opening to keep him as wolverine In full X-Men films.

The so called happy future was to send off oriignal cast except for Jackman.If anyone thought fox was ever going to do another film with original cast after DOFP they were Naive.

as one who liked apocalypse trying to connect original trilogy to magneto and mystique is mistake.both the ian mckellen and rebecca romijn versions are completly erased.it's one thing to pay homage to X-Men and X2 with apocalypse and even respect last stand as far as jean and phoenix go but to try to connect original trilogy with magneto and mystique is mistake.

having said that now that Singer is gone who knows if next director will keep Magneto way he is now.even in comics they have found ways even with him as ally to go back to antaginist of X-Men.a big problem is keeping magneto somewhat good is with original trilogy erased magneto will never be arch enemy of X-Men in films now.In fc trilogy he is more a anti-hero who comes into conflict with xavier because how he reacts to others in fc and DOFP and in apocalypse he is manuiplted by apocalypse after losing his family.

now there may be a bit of wanting to keep the 2 biggest stars of first class cast-Lawrence and Fassbender on side of good.
 
Even if you say the OT didn't happen and that DOFP was a loose reboot it still doesn't change the fact that the OT still remains part of the franchise in some way or another, those events having happened ain't being ignored they just may up not being in definite moving forward continuity anymore.
 
Even if you say the OT didn't happen and that DOFP was a loose reboot it still doesn't change the fact that the OT still remains part of the franchise in some way or another, those events having happened ain't being ignored they just may up not being in definite moving forward continuity anymore.

with exception of wolverine in logan having memory of wolverine in ot and all events of first 2 wolverine films they will have no relvence going forward.
 
with exception of wolverine in logan having memory of wolverine in ot and all events of first 2 wolverine films they will have no relvence going forward.

Xavier also knows of the original timeline since he looked through Logan's mind.
 
The horsemen don't display anywhere near enough personality before or after Apocalypse recruits them to say that there is a change in them. Flat-out disagree that they seem much different.

Uh, Storm does. Rewatch the scene where she gets recruited. She wants to be a hero like Mystique and thanks that you can't change the world by going around killing. Remember? So with that in mind, does that strike you as odd that she jumped on board with Apocalypse's plan after getting her power increased?

Psylocke also doesn't make any sense. She joins Apocalypse because he promised her power and to set her free from the control of others. But considering what Apocalypse's end game is, it's also odd that she would follow him since he plans on controlling everyone.

As for Charles in Cerebro, it's difficult to debate this because you believe that sequence can be compared to Apocalypse recruiting the horsemen when I believe it can't. This is because the Cerebro sequence is the only one that displays Apocalypse actually controlling minds.

Charles contacts Erik using Cerebro, and in doing so connects with Apocalypse's mind. Once connected, Apocalypse can use his technopathy to take control of Cerebro. The chamber changes colour as Apocalypse takes over. He is then free to invade people's minds and set off all the nukes. The black eyes represent those people who are being controlled by corrupted Cerebro. Charles is depicted as being forcefully taken over. He is shut down, and only comes to when Hank starts messing with the machine.

Apocalypse is very much the cult leader that Singer described. He identifies those who are lost and offers them a cause. He exploits weaknesses and grooms people, but he cannot control minds. Mind control is what he wants in the film afterall.

The problem is that Cerebro doesn't control minds, its only function is increasing enhancing the powers of telepaths as the explained multiple times in the series. It's just a power booster like what Apocalypse is to the horsemen and this comparison is even made in the film. So the only thing Apocalypse can do with Cerebro is increase a telepath's power and Xavier's line that scene implied that was the case.

What's implied here is that Apocalypse seduces people with the power upgrades where it acts like some kind of addictive drug that causes people to not think straight and then he is able to sweet talk.

A canon fodder family wasn't necessary to set up the problems of being Magneto's son. There's plenty of reasons to worry about that already.

Quicksilver's decision would be more understandable if it wasn't placed next to apocalyptic stakes. His silence here comes off as cowardly considering the world might be ending. More-so when him saying something could save the world.

It honestly wouldn't have stopped Magneto considering he was convinced by Apocalypse that he would just keep losing loved ones in the old world. So he would just believe that he would eventually lose Quicksilver too.
 
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The general audience isn't buying it

that's the nature of film series.original triolgy,origins,and the wolverine have all been erased.

they aren't going to matter at all after logan.besides always possable fracnhise will now be new mutants,deadpool,and X-force films and legion and TBD tv shows and possibly gambit.
 
that's the nature of film series.original triolgy,origins,and the wolverine have all been erased.

they aren't going to matter at all after logan.besides always possable fracnhise will now be new mutants,deadpool,and X-force films and legion and TBD tv shows and possibly gambit.


And people will still be confused leaving the theater, if they actually even go. "Where was X-Man (Wolverine)?"
 
Okay, while I liked Apocalypse, flaws and all, after listening to the commentary between Singer and Kinberg, as well as seeing all of the deleted scenes, I now have a greater appreciation for it.

First off, Singer. I do hope that even if he doesn't direct another of these films, he's involved in some capacity. He's not a comics guy, sure, but he does know how to work with the actors and it was interesting to learn how upset he was about having to cut scenes, particularly the longer forest sequence due to a moment that Fassbender came up after Erik's wife and daughter were killed. Watching it, I see why it was cut for time, and given how much Erik's story has been rooted in tragedy, it might have just been pouring on more emotion than we already had.

He says that First Class is Erik's film, DoFP was Charles' from an emotional standpoint, and Apocalypse is Raven's. I don't entirely agree with that last one, but I do see what he meant by this trilogy being anchored by them. They are arguably the bigger names of this younger cast, but I also think, like First Class, the new team we get at the end of Apocalypse can have a chance to shine in future installments.

He mentioned that he's been criticized for not going comic book with the costumes, and I can agree with that, but I think the landscape of comic book adaptations today isn't what it was in 2000. He says that you can do bright and colorful with Spider-Man, Captain America, but the mutants are trying to blend in and not stick out. But with Deadpool, the MCU, the DCCW shows, audiences nowadays are more accepting of colorful costumes, so in hindsight, it feels like Singer had to build to this, even though we did get a taste of the comic costumes in First Class.

Then there's the character stuff- apparently, Sophie Turner's casting as Jean Grey was Singer's call since he's a big Game of Thrones fan, and he liked the chemistry on reads between her, Tye Sheridan, and Alexandra Shipp, and I do wish more of that shined on-screen.

Which gets me to the deleted scenes. Like the Rogue Cut, it's nice that Fox let Singer shoot as much as he did, but for the scenes themselves, I'm of two minds about them. A lot of them are minor, but character building, like Alex first going to Scott and saying they're a lot more alike than Scott realizes. That, plus Scott and Jean introducing themselves to each other by name help give them small moments that allow us to see their chemistry.

I'm of two minds about the extended mall scene: on one hand, I don't know if it fits tonally, but at the same time, this allows the kids to bond, it was funny, and it did add to Nightcrawler's character when he's surprised that most humans aren't afraid of mutants walking around in public. That and Jubilee actually used her powers.

If anything, to save time, the movie could have trimmed the opening Apocalypse sequence, left out the Return of the Jedi conversation, and maybe trimmed down SOME of the Weapon X sequence (since in hindsight, it did help set up Logan instead of Deadpool, as as apparently the intention) and then put in those deleted scenes to slowly flesh out the new characters.

So while I have minor issues on Apocalypse, I did like listening to what Singer intended to do, wanting to do Phoenix right, the deleted scenes that would've been good character moments that had to be cut for time, and though I'm interested to see what a new director can do with the main series, I still enjoyed this film, flaws and all.
 
Okay, while I liked Apocalypse, flaws and all, after listening to the commentary between Singer and Kinberg, as well as seeing all of the deleted scenes, I now have a greater appreciation for it.

First off, Singer. I do hope that even if he doesn't direct another of these films, he's involved in some capacity. He's not a comics guy, sure, but he does know how to work with the actors and it was interesting to learn how upset he was about having to cut scenes, particularly the longer forest sequence due to a moment that Fassbender came up after Erik's wife and daughter were killed. Watching it, I see why it was cut for time, and given how much Erik's story has been rooted in tragedy, it might have just been pouring on more emotion than we already had.

He says that First Class is Erik's film, DoFP was Charles' from an emotional standpoint, and Apocalypse is Raven's. I don't entirely agree with that last one, but I do see what he meant by this trilogy being anchored by them. They are arguably the bigger names of this younger cast, but I also think, like First Class, the new team we get at the end of Apocalypse can have a chance to shine in future installments.

He mentioned that he's been criticized for not going comic book with the costumes, and I can agree with that, but I think the landscape of comic book adaptations today isn't what it was in 2000. He says that you can do bright and colorful with Spider-Man, Captain America, but the mutants are trying to blend in and not stick out. But with Deadpool, the MCU, the DCCW shows, audiences nowadays are more accepting of colorful costumes, so in hindsight, it feels like Singer had to build to this, even though we did get a taste of the comic costumes in First Class.

Then there's the character stuff- apparently, Sophie Turner's casting as Jean Grey was Singer's call since he's a big Game of Thrones fan, and he liked the chemistry on reads between her, Tye Sheridan, and Alexandra Shipp, and I do wish more of that shined on-screen.

Which gets me to the deleted scenes. Like the Rogue Cut, it's nice that Fox let Singer shoot as much as he did, but for the scenes themselves, I'm of two minds about them. A lot of them are minor, but character building, like Alex first going to Scott and saying they're a lot more alike than Scott realizes. That, plus Scott and Jean introducing themselves to each other by name help give them small moments that allow us to see their chemistry.

I'm of two minds about the extended mall scene: on one hand, I don't know if it fits tonally, but at the same time, this allows the kids to bond, it was funny, and it did add to Nightcrawler's character when he's surprised that most humans aren't afraid of mutants walking around in public. That and Jubilee actually used her powers.

If anything, to save time, the movie could have trimmed the opening Apocalypse sequence, left out the Return of the Jedi conversation, and maybe trimmed down SOME of the Weapon X sequence (since in hindsight, it did help set up Logan instead of Deadpool, as as apparently the intention) and then put in those deleted scenes to slowly flesh out the new characters.

So while I have minor issues on Apocalypse, I did like listening to what Singer intended to do, wanting to do Phoenix right, the deleted scenes that would've been good character moments that had to be cut for time, and though I'm interested to see what a new director can do with the main series, I still enjoyed this film, flaws and all.

Both Tim Burton and Chris Nolan wasn't comic guys eather.Bryan Singer is big sci fi/fantasy guy and knows how to direct actors.When singer did superman he didn't shy away from colorful uniform.

Even though I hate it the fact is he's very unlikely to direct another X-Men film.It's possable he gets executive producer credit on future X-Men film.and i also believe if someone else had directed kinberg scripted apocalypse we wouldn't be talking about some liking film and others using it as it's whipping boy.

I don't really see Apocalypse as raven's film.to me promation over sold lawrence in apocalypse and i personal view Jean as real female lead of
Apocalypse.to me her being hero to younger characters was reflection of lawrence as one of big stars.I feel her purpose in film was to rescue nightcrawler and bring him to mansion,worry about magneto,and try to talk some sense into him.her being so worried about him was singer sutle hint despite DOFP there may still be feelings between two of them.

To me i never make decsion rather i like or not based on that.the first X-Men was coming off when comic book films were in disregard after B & R and was influenced by the matrix.X-Men helped revive genre.Since first class the X-Men series has slowly been moving in direction of more colorful costumes.Emma frost's outfits in FIrst very influenced by comics.as well as the outfits sued in cuba resember the 1991 outfits used between end of X_tinction agenda and launch of X-em VOl 2 Issue 1.Viper's outfit in the wolverine.Bishop look takens traight out of late 1990's comics.Deadpool.and in apocalypse very colorful outfits for houseman.STorm's look taken straight out of 1980's comics.Psylocke taken straight from comics.magneto in most colorful outfit ever though end of first class had a jim lee designed inspired helement.at end of apocalypse you had costumes inspired by

Cyclops-early 1990's outfit with astonishing X_Men visor
Jean-1990's outfit
Beast-2000 look
Quicksilver-taken from X-Men evolution
Nightcrawler-her classic look
Mystique-mid 1990's look

In context of film it makes sense For them not to have outfits till end of film

Jean and cyclops were some of highlights of apocalypse.

as for deleted scenes I think he was right to cut most of them.I would only have kept Xavier talking to storm and cyclops getting visor from beast.

the entire reason for weapon X I believe apart from setting up post credit scene which ties into Logan was so SInger could direct jackman one last time
and for Singer to do weapon X Wolverine,which was almost taken directly from comics.

replacing singer on main X-Men films isn't as easy as some think.Ratner did terrable job on Last Stand.and i am one who believes singer is better director on X-Men than Vaughn.Vaughn seemed intrested permealy on first class to do 1960's film inspired by classic James Bond.

Taking out deadpool which many loved more than me the 2 best X_Men films were made by SInger-X2 and DOFp.I would argue the the third best X_Men film as well-X-Men but i will accept my view of X-Men better than FIrst Class
is minority view.
 
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