Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 44

[GuestStar2004]

it might have been because they wanted to acknowledge xavier and jean have already build up a relationship while scott has more the new boy role.

He didn't bother to find Scott though... or Storm for that matter. After making that promise he didn't even seem to check on them. If he had, surely he would have stepped in to help Storm sooner at least, considering how crappy her life was.

Well technically scotts powers had only just manifested so what was Xavier gonna do exactly? and as for storm well you could easily joke that her real name isn't actually storm so Xavier wouldn't have an easy time finding her in the cerebro phone book ;p

Infact really you have believe Xavier saw jean,storm and scott in Wolverines mind so he knows what to look for in younger versions and could find them by first name alone by cerebro.

 

[marvelrobbins]

it might have been because they wanted to acknowledge xavier and jean have already build up a relationship while scott has more the new boy role.



Well technically scotts powers had only just manifested so what was Xavier gonna do exactly? and as for storm well you could easily joke that her real name isn't actually storm so Xavier wouldn't have an easy time finding her in the cerebro phone book ;p

singer wanted to mirror rogue in X-Men with Cyclops in APocalypse only this time the mirror of wolverine-jean is at mansion instead of them meeting before encounting X-Men.They were able to show the bond devolp between scott and jean that will led to romance.Jean already being a student allows for payoff of xavier not contorlling her like in last stand and for jean in astral plane to go all phoenix on Apocalypse.

It was clearly shown Xavier thought since mystique didn't kill trask the future was averted and he was focused on teaching young mutants and wa soverly optimistic.it takes apocalypse to make xavier realize need for a strike force that was saw in last scene of film.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's not a redo of X2. That has actually happened in Apocalypse stories.

It's a known fact that Singer has read Ultimate X-Men. Where Apocalypse tried to take Xavier's powers.

Spoiler

Guess how Xavier got saved?

Spoiler

They also combined that with elements of Apocalypse: The Twelves which was the last major Apocalypse story. Where Apocalypse kidnapped a telepath named Nate Grey and took him to an Egyptian prymind to take his body. The film just replaced Nate with Chuck.

Spoiler

X-Men go to Egypt to stop it just like in the movie.

Spoiler

They also got the merge with Apocalypse = bald idea from this story.

Spoiler

The Twelve Saga also ended with Jean easily defeating Apocalypse(but without Phoenix powers).

Spoiler

As you can see it was no lazy redo. Just a collection of Apocalypse stories put on film.



That is actually from the comics too.

Spoiler

And that machine he had was suppose to be a hint at alien tech according to Singer months prior to the film's release.

Thank you.you make case better than i can that they were influenced by comics.some just refuse to see it.the idea of apocalypse using host bodies is just as much from comics as magneto being survivor of holcaust.if anything xavier is far more active character in apoclaypse than he was in X2.for nearly half of x2 xavier was tricked/controlled by by Jason stryker.and in apocalypse they had him try to fight apocalypse on astal plane.Phoenix in X-men films is based on the ultimate version.

 

[GuestStar2004]

he was focused on teaching young mutants and wa soverly optimistic

Xavier is a peace maker and peace makers want to set a good impression for a better world, not fight back to create conflict

Its like in DOFP when Xavier tried to trick the guards and logan just looks at him like he is wasting time and knocks them out with a pan.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Xavier is a peace maker and peace makers want to set a good impression for a better world, not fight back to create conflict

Its like in DOFP when Xavier tried to trick the guards and logan just looks at him like he is wasting time and knocks them out with a pan.

yep it fits how they have devolped him in the films.

 

[Frankeh]

'Xavier gets kidnapped as a pawn in the villain's scheme' is a total redo of X2, comic accurate of not.

Maybe add a dash of X1's Xavier knocked out by corrupted Cerebro too, as Singer likes to reference himself. I don't mind to be honest, Xavier is always going to end up sitting or laying somewhere doing something with his brain. There's not a ton of options.

Exactly, we're talking about a movie which Singer fills with callbacks to his work, such as having another Alkali Lake sequence, reusing the dialogue at the end of X1, making a bigger and better version of his own Quicksilver scene, etc.

I've already gone through the comic parallels with Stan Lee. I think he even wrote a Tumblr article listing all of them. I still feel this was lazy writing I'm afraid. Watching the film, it felt been there done that, and knowing they might've taken it out from a comic doesn't change that.

Point taken about the body swap. Perhaps it was always what they had in mind even though Kinberg doesn't explicitly say so in that quote. He just says they always had in mind Xavier getting kidnapped.

 

[Stan Lee]

Exactly, we're talking about a movie which Singer fills with callbacks to his work, such as having another Alkali Lake sequence, reusing the dialogue at the end of X1, making a bigger and better version of his own Quicksilver scene, etc.

I've already gone through the comic parallels with Stan Lee. I think he even wrote a Tumblr article listing all of them. I still feel this was lazy writing I'm afraid. Watching the film, it felt been there done that, and knowing they might've taken it out from a comic doesn't change that.

Point taken about the body swap. Perhaps it was always what they had in mind even though Kinberg doesn't explicitly say so in that quote. He just says they always had in mind Xavier getting kidnapped.

In hindscent the Alkali Lake sequence's purpose seems to be meant to be a prelude to Logan and less of a callback. Based on interviews it seems that Wolverine's slaughter is going to be a plot point in that movie.

 

[dax]

In hindscent the Alkali Lake sequence's purpose seems to be meant to be a prelude to Logan and less of a callback. Based on interviews it seems that Wolverine's slaughter is going to be a plot point in that movie.

I always thought they did that scene as a way of redoing the events of X-men Origins: Wolverine.

 

[henzINNIT]

I always thought they did that scene as a way of redoing the events of X-men Origins: Wolverine.

I think it was both. That scene leads into the post credit sequence which was clearly setting up Logan. Singer probably wanted to put his stamp on Weapon X too though.

Thank you.you make case better than i can that they were influenced by comics.some just refuse to see it.

People see it, they just don't care because they didn't like the film. Comic references mean nothing if the film is rubbish.

 

[Stan Lee]

I think it was both. That scene leads into the post credit sequence which was clearly setting up Logan. Singer probably wanted to put his stamp on Weapon X too though.

It goes a bit deeper than that. The villian in Logan, Zander Rice, father was killed by Wolverine when he escaped Weapon X and lead to him mistreating Laura.

People see it, they just don't care because they didn't like the film. Comic references mean nothing if the film is rubbish.

Many actually didn't see it. I remember many people's main complaints being about it not taking elements from the comics. Like Comicbookgirl19 who had no idea what she was talking about.

 

[henzINNIT]

It goes a bit deeper than that. The villian in Logan, Zander Rice, father was killed by Wolverine when he escaped Weapon X and lead to him mistreating Laura.

Confirmed to be in the film? Cause I'm avoiding spoilers.

Many actually didn't see it. I remember many people's main complaints being about it not taking elements from the comics. Like Comicbookgirl19 who had no idea what she was talking about.

Around here, people do. You make sure they do. Which is cool.

I've seen CBG19's videos on the X-Men universe. They are long, and passionate and she clearly knows her stuff. Perhaps her view on comic accuracy (as well as many on here) extends beyond details when the characters themselves aren't being served.

For instance, who cares that Xavier's hair loss is similar to Scott's in a comic book, when a founding X-Man like Angel has barely any lines and is nothing like the character? Seriously. Who cares even a little bit? I want to know.

I don't think you realise that your comic panel counter-argument only strengthens the critics' opinion. The accuracies you tend to point to perfectly reflect writers who don't know what they're doing. They pull plot elements and references from stories but miss the character drama and context in the process. And in the end, those references didn't save the film, so they were all wasted.

 

[Stan Lee]

Confirmed to be in the film? Cause I'm avoiding spoilers.

Yup.

Around here, people do. You make sure they do. Which is cool.

I've seen CBG19's videos on the X-Men universe. They are long, and passionate and she clearly knows her stuff. Perhaps her view on comic accuracy (as well as many on here) extends beyond details when the characters themselves aren't being served.

For instance, who cares that Xavier's hair loss is similar to Scott's in a comic book, when a founding X-Man like Angel has barely any lines and is nothing like the character? Seriously. Who cares even a little bit? I want to know.

I don't think you realise that your comic panel counter-argument only strengthens the critics' opinion. The accuracies you tend to point to perfectly reflect writers who don't know what they're doing. They pull plot elements and references from stories but miss the character drama and context in the process. And in the end, those references didn't save the film, so they were all wasted.

She says things like the Phoenix being Jean's mutant power is a FOX creation when everyone who has read the Phoenix Saga knows that was the original intent in the comics. The Phoenix Force was a terrible retcon that came about six years after The Dark Phoenix Saga.

That's what I'm talking about. Plenty of other examples like her complaining that was Psylocke never a horsemen or made whips out of her psychic knife, which has been a thing in the comics. Complaining about Apocalypse not showing Mr. Sinister, etc. She doesn't seem to know her stuff as much as she claims to me and I'm not the only one who thinks that. Rob from ComicsExplained has called her out on her BS.

 

[henzINNIT]

Yup.

... well thanks for that.

She says things like the Phoenix being Jean's mutant power is a FOX creation when everyone who has read the Phoenix Saga knows that was the original intent in the comics. The Phoenix Force was a terrible retcon that came about six years after The Dark Phoenix Saga.

That's what I'm talking about. Plenty of other examples like her complaining that was Psylocke never a horsemen or made whips out of her psychic knife, which has been a thing in the comics. Complaining about Apocalypse not showing Mr. Sinister, etc. She doesn't seem to know her stuff as much as she claims to me and I'm not the only one who thinks that. Rob from ComicsExplained has called her out on her BS.

And my point still is that people don't care about the details as much as they do the characters. The Phoenix Story is a great example of something that has been told, retconned and retold several times and it is interesting because of Jean, not the maguffin. X3 had a ton of comic book references too and it still sucked because it wasted the characters.

 

[marvelrobbins]

yet how many people online claim fox doesn't take anything from comics inless your talking about deadpool.it doesn't matter if you like apocalypse or not.

 

[Stan Lee]

And my point still is that people don't care about the details as much as they do the characters. The Phoenix Story is a great example of something that has been told, retconned and retold several times and it is interesting because of Jean, not the maguffin. X3 had a ton of comic book references too and it still sucked because it wasted the characters.

I consider Apocalypse to be the complete antithesis to X3 in regards to being an adaptation because it actually captures the spirit of the story it's based on.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I consider Apocalypse to be the complete antithesis to X3 in regards to being an adaptation because it actually captures the spirit of the story it's based on.

Apocalypse is far cry from last stand.unlike last stand ending of apocalypse
gives you something to look forward to for future flagship X-Men films.

Apocalypse opens door for angel to not be dead as singer and kinberg siad on commantary.Psylocke is out there.even if they wanted to they could find reason to bring apocalypse back.too many characters died In Last stand.

Apocalypse is far better adaptation of apocalypse stories than last stand was
of phoenix.apocalypse did phoenix better than last stand.

 

[henzINNIT]

yet how many people online claim fox doesn't take anything from comics inless your talking about deadpool.it doesn't matter if you like apocalypse or not.

If that is the case (and I agree it is) then you should look in to why that is. Better yet, just read my post above.

Deadpool took things from the comic that actually mattered to people. Its success, in the same year that Apocalypse fizzled, is the perfect evidence.

I consider Apocalypse to be the complete antithesis to X3 in regards to being an adaptation because it actually captures the spirit of the story it's based on.

And yet both are considered failures. I'd agree that bad Singer has a better grasp on this universe than Ratner, but that is faint praise. He still dropped the ball on this one.

 

[Stan Lee]

And yet both are considered failures. I'd agree that bad Singer has a better grasp on this universe than Ratner, but that is faint praise. He still dropped the ball on this one.

I don't think Apocalypse failed as an adaptation. I've come to found that many people who claimed that it didn't have the spirit often didn't even read the original story and only seen the watered down cartoon version.

 

[marvelrobbins]

If that is the case (and I agree it is) then you should look in to why that is. Better yet, just read my post above.

Deadpool took things from the comic that actually mattered to people. Its success, in the same year that Apocalypse fizzled, is the perfect evidence.



And yet both are considered failures. I'd agree that bad Singer has a better grasp on this universe than Ratner, but that is faint praise. He still dropped the ball on this one.

and I say deadpool like first class are the 2 most overrated X-men related films.and using box office and RT scores won't get me to change my mind.how scores and box office of iron man 3 and star trek Into darkness doesn't make me like those films.

your also kidding yourself if you think many of those many of those who went to deadpool knew much about character.same case that many say MCU is so faithful when they make just as many changes as fox and pre-selling out Sony did.

you have every right to say Apocalypse is piece of crap if you think that.
on same token you will never see me say deadpool is better film than other
x films inless your talking about last stand and origins.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

He didn't bother to find Scott though...

it might have been because they wanted to acknowledge xavier and jean have already build up a relationship while scott has more the new boy role.



Well technically scotts powers had only just manifested so what was Xavier gonna do exactly? and as for storm well you could easily joke that her real name isn't actually storm so Xavier wouldn't have an easy time finding her in the cerebro phone book ;p

Infact really you have believe Xavier saw jean,storm and scott in Wolverines mind so he knows what to look for in younger versions and could find them by first name alone by cerebro.

he didn't have to find him... he already knew his brother and had him keep taps on him to monitor when/if his powers manifested, before approaching him

 

[henzINNIT]

and I say deadpool like first class are the 2 most overrated X-men related films.and using box office and RT scores won't get me to change my mind.how scores and box office of iron man 3 and star trek Into darkness doesn't make me like those films.

your also kidding yourself if you think many of those many of those who went to deadpool knew much about character.same case that many say MCU is so faithful when they make just as many changes as fox and pre-selling out Sony did.

you have every right to say Apocalypse is piece of crap if you think that.
on same token you will never see me say deadpool is better film than other
x films inless your talking about last stand and origins.

Does this MCU grudge get tiresome? Claiming that Sony "sold out" because they did what the majority of fans wanted and branding fans who want changes in X-Men "Singer haters" isn't the way to maintain conversation.

he didn't have to find him... he already knew his brother and had him keep taps on him to monitor when/if his powers manifested, before approaching him

Except that isn't in the film at all. Alex brings Scott to the school himself. Charles is surprised to see him and remarks that it has been a long time since they've spoken.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Does this MCU grudge get tiresome? Claiming that Sony "sold out" because they did what the majority of fans wanted and branding fans who want changes in X-Men "Singer haters" isn't the way to maintain conversation.



Except that isn't in the film at all. Alex brings Scott to the school himself. Charles is surprised to see him and remarks that it has been a long time since they've spoken.

some around here have said f you to singer and both X-men and X2 and even said first class which only singer produced shouldn't have been made so they can follow origins isn't being haters i don't know what is.

it doesn't matter if i like apocalypse and others don't.

my favorate comic book property always has been X-men.i have collection to put money where my mouth is.Spider-man is my second and batman third.

Spider-man should not be a stark supporting character.having already endured one reboot another reboot was last thing i wanted and for what to
cross paths with avengers.and affleck leaving director's chair for the batman is final nail in coffin for DCEU for me.

considering i called first class and deadpool overated,don't much like lawrence as mystique,and don't practully like idea of X universe deadpool centric I am hardly a fox yes man.the fact I bought the dvds for MCU
phase one plus capatin america 2 and 3 and avengers age of ultron
hardly makes me like those who go around saying f you to singer,and kinberg and to all the non deadpool films.

 

[henzINNIT]

some around here have said f you to singer and both X-men and X2 and even said first class which only singer produced shouldn't have been made so they can follow origins isn't being haters i don't know what is.

People can have their views, and yes, that can include not liking Singer's take on the X-Men universe. I'm sure the argument would be that X-Men and X2 are over a decade old and things have moved on, and that is true. X2 holds up pretty damn well but that is not the case for the first. That's just how things go.

I'm curious to see an example of someone outright saying "first class shouldn't have been made, they should have followed origins", because I think I know the conversation you're refering to and it wasn't as simple as that. In a long running franchise such as this, with many ups and downs and a ton of aborted sequels and alternate takes, there is nothing wrong with discussing the potential of those projects that didn't come to pass. It doesn't have to be taken as a slight against the films you enjoy, and even if it is, that's okay too.

Singer's X1, X2 and DOFP were critical and commercial successes. They don't need you to defend them. They do that for themselves.

my favorate comic book property always has been X-men.i have collection to put money where my mouth is.Spider-man is my second and batman third.

Same on all 3 counts. Raimi's trilogy is probably my favourite set of CBMs in general, including Spider-Man 3. I love that film to death despite its flaws, but I accept the bashing it gets because it wasn't for everyone.

Spider-man should not be a stark supporting character.having already endured one reboot another reboot was last thing i wanted and for what to
cross paths with avengers.and affleck leaving director's chair for the batman is final nail in coffin for DCEU for me.

I was gutted when SM4 was cancelled in favour of a reboot. After it was done once though, I don't care if it's done again. I'm approaching the MCU Spidey curious to see what he can do in that universe. We've had him solo in 5 seperate stories, so of course Marvel are going to explore this character as a piece of a larger universe. No reason that can't be fun, and there is no indication from what we've seen so far that he'll play second fiddle to Iron Man. Tom Holland actually looks like a teenager too, which is a plus.

considering i called first class and deadpool overated,don't much like lawrence as mystique,and don't practully like idea of X universe deadpool centric I am hardly a fox yes man.the fact I bought the dvds for MCU
phase one plus capatin america 2 and 3 and avengers age of ultron
hardly makes me like those who go around saying f you to singer,and kinberg and to all the non deadpool films.

Then why so bothered by people's opinions here? Let the MCU fans cry reboot. As someone who is happy to see Fox continue to explore the X-Men universe, you're on the winning side, cause they aren't giving these rights up any time soon.

 

[marvelrobbins]

edit

 

[def28]

Whats with the constant Deadpool bashing as well as ignoring that people liked other X-Men films? Every single post you have to do this. It's like anything that isn't Brian Singer and enjoyed by fans you seem to have an automatic bias against. I would have thought the success of a Fox film with audiences would have actually had a positive reaction from you haha. But it's been the opposite.

People loved X2, First Class, DOFP and Deadpool. Many didn't love X3, Apocalypse and XMOW.

It does matter if people hated Apocalypse because if you like the X-Men films, that quality of filmmaking is not doing the series any favors. Keep making films like that and the franchise will naturally and with good reason lean more towards Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutants and possibly yet another new main X-Men team. Not only for financial reasons but critical as well.

So if you don't want the franchise focusing mainly on X-Force and Deadpool in the next decade, then hope for better X-Men films that will work with audiences on an X2 or DOFP level. Not a disappointing Apocalypse one.