Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 10

[Lip]

(and, i repeat, i very like the cartoon, and i cannot wait to show it to my son when he'll grow up, but quality is another story with today popularity)

Have you tried to google "most popular animated series"? The X-Men appears in almost all the list. It was ranked 13 among 100 animated series by IGN. Currently it ranks 197 on IMDB among 5000 shows, which includes premium cable and broadcast network dramas. It has higher position than shows like Modern Family and cultural icon like Lost. It was popular enough to get a comic book series recently. In 2009 it was released in DVD.

What test of popularity do you want? Prove how only X-Men fans remember the show now, besides your sole opinion.

What if a part of the deal is to have the current cast brought over to Disney X-Men? I mean under Marvel the current cast could be alright, but please no more focus on Logan, Xavier, Erik and Mystique. Some may say "no way" but people thought the OT cast would never be in another movie after X3 but they were.

Perhaps if Dark Phoenix is a hit they will bring the cast over. This is all on Kinberg and his team.

For me it's never been the casting, just the handling of the characters itself.

Well, you have to think about a few things:

Jackmen retired. Is Disney/Marvel interested in getting the X-Men without Wolverine?
After carefully creating an acclaimed and cohesive universe, are they interested in bringing that mess an universe full of continuity errors?
Are they interested in having two Quicksilvers?

So no, I don't think there is any way that is going to happen.

 

[def28]

How much copies sell X-Men '92?
Look for that and you find out another fact against cartoon popolarity today.

facts, not faith.

Enough to rank #18 and above plenty of other X-titles (as well as other marvel and DC books) on it's release. It flopped so much it got get greenlit for another round of books past secret wars when it was supposed to end.

Have you tried to google "most popular animated series"? The X-Men appears in almost all the list. It was ranked 13 among 100 animated series by IGN. Currently it ranks 197 on IMDB among 5000 shows, which includes premium cable and broadcast network dramas. It has higher position than shows like Modern Family and cultural icon like Lost. It was popular enough to get a comic book series recently. In 2009 it was released in DVD.

What test of popularity do you want? Prove how only X-Men fans remember the show now, besides your sole opinion.

Haha Bingo

 

[Avenging Angel]

Have you tried to google "most popular animated series"? The X-Men appears in almost all the list. It was ranked 13 among 100 animated series by IGN. Currently it ranks 197 on IMDB among 5000 shows, which includes premium cable and broadcast network dramas. It has higher position than shows like Modern Family and cultural icon like Lost. It was popular enough to get a comic book series recently. In 2009 it was released in DVD.

I follow the TAS account on twitter and to this day they still get requests pouring in about when they are gonna reboot the show and how much praise they get on defining 90s cartoons. It was the only comic accurate portrayal to come out of FOX, no reason for the studio not to pull it off again.

 

[psyonic]

Well, you have to think about a few things:

Jackmen retired. Is Disney/Marvel interested in getting the X-Men without Wolverine?
After carefully creating an acclaimed and cohesive universe, are they interested in bringing that mess an universe full of continuity errors?
Are they interested in having two Quicksilvers?

So no, I don't think there is any way that is going to happen.

Didn't Sebastian Stan say Jackman was considering playing him again if Disney was in charge, or something? I think I read something about that, but who knows.. I think they can definitely play it off as the Infinity Stones made a crack in the time continuum so XMCU and MCU somehow crossed. Reboot or re-work, the X-Men are coming in 2019 (at the earliest).

 

[Ordet]

Boys, are we talked about popolarity in our fan little garden or popularity in real world?

X-Men's IMDB votes are less than 30.000.
X-Men '92 sales are 40.000.

That make, converting in ticket sales: 300.000 - 400.000 $
with them you cannot buy a spot for a film.
The cost of a spot at superbowl is at least 10 times. i repeat: a spot of 30 seconds.

(of course that's not only about X-Men, but about all comics)

In italy Tex sales more than any Marvel or DC title sales in USA (i underline: in usa, not in italy) (and with no event, no relanch, no always new n.1 etc..)

Nobody cares make a movie about it.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Why are you comparing X-MEN TAS & X-MEN '92 comic?

Most people who watched X-MEN TAS are not comic book fans and wouldn't buy a comic book 20+ years later anyway.


Here's a random X-MEN story. I was riding to the liquor store to buy some dutches before going to see Logan last year. And I saw this girl who I thought looked pretty good so I stopped and had a quick convo. After getting her # she asked what I was doing that night and I said going to see that new wolverine movie. She immediately lit up saying I wanna see that I loved X-MEN cartoon as a kid. And this was just a random person who never ever read a comic book.

You obviously never read the recently released X-MEN book covering all of this information. When X-MEN TAS released most of America didn't have cable TV. So anything on fox abc CBS NBC got even more ratings. X-MEN TAS got more ratings than all networks combined during those Saturday mornings. Millions and millions of ppl watched that show I'm not sure you're realizing how popular it was. You keep mentioning Italy but you're not realizing that Italy is a small country on 60million ppl. US is 300million ppl you can't tell us about the impact of a American show in America when we actually live here.


Quote from the X-MEN book i bought from the shows creators last year.

X-MEN had pulled mini network FOX TV ahead of the three larger, traditional television networks ("X-MEN vs the gang of three!" - 2/20/93). Six to Eight million households were tuned in every week, often more (three million would have been a success). At first X-MEN just out performed each of it's three competitors. In months to come there would be Saturdays when the show would out draw all three "big" network shows combined,meaning over half the TV watching households in America were watching our show.

Eric Lewald - Creator of X-MEN TAS


Im looking at a picture of the cover of Variety from 1993

"X-PLOSIVE RATINGS!"

The #1 Saturday Morning Kids Show

Boys 6-11 10.8
Boys 12-17 10.5

 

[Lip]

Boys, are we talked about popolarity in our fan little garden or popularity in real world?

What do you want? People talking daily about a 90's animated series and trending on twitter for you to consider popular? WTF?

The case you're making about the X-Men I can easily make about Friends and Seinfeld because, well, who remembers those shows anyway? They didn't even get a revival like Will and Grace, Gilmore Girls and Full House. Nobody remembers Friends.

See? Easy.

TAS was a massive hit (not only in US) and it was part of the childhood of boys and girls who were not and did not become comic book fans, but they certainly remember that hit animated show they used to watch saturday morning.

You have nothing to sustain the idea that only comic book fans remember TAS besides your own opinion.

 

[Davidstorm]

This is ridiculous. X-MEN as a IP definitely has 1 billion dollar potential. FOX just doesn't know how to make it happen. That doesn't mean another studio couldn't do it.

The fox has already made films that could easily get 1 billion box office
DOFP is a film that could achieve this, but did it?
the question is this, 1 billion franchise has several that could have this, but the x-men franchise has public for this? the future will tell.
but the fact is that
the xmen have lost popularity, and this has several reasons, which is not restricted only to the quality of the films,
will they regain their popularity to the point of becoming a 1bi franchise? in my opinion not, but in your yes, then we will see (hope you are right).
in any case, whether or not it is achieved, it is not a fault not to have an audience to get 1 billion..

 

[Davidstorm]

The "novelty" will be X-MEN "done right" by Marvel Proper. X-MEN done by Disney will sell itself[/QUOTE]

we are talking about the future, something we do not know how it will be received , if movies from this segment are still high , whether the audience will like it, if the audience will still be waiting to see the x-men 'done right' etc. it's good to remember that we're talking about a franchise that started in 2000.
Can it go well? Yes
Can it go wrong? Yes
can become a $ 1 billion franchise? Yes
can it continue to be a 500-750m franchise? Yes.

t:

 

[Zant]

A billion is not as easy as it sounds. Marvel made a well received Spider man film with RDJ/Iron man all over the posters and trailers and it did not even really get close to a billion.

 

[Davidstorm]

A billion is not as easy as it sounds. Marvel made a well received Spider man film with RDJ/Iron man all over the posters and trailers and it did not even really get close to a billion.

Exactly
nothing prevents the same happens with x-men

 

[Jh7058622]

A billion is not as easy as it sounds. Marvel made a well received Spider man film with RDJ/Iron man all over the posters and trailers and it did not even really get close to a billion.

Everyone thought Thor: Ragnorok would definitely be the number 1 marvel film over Spidey and BP and break 1bill last year yet it didn't even come close and was the least profitable of the three films. No one can predict what will strike a chord with audiences Dark Phoenix might be the next one for all we know. It is naive to say that all Disney does is pour out Billion dollar franchises as that's a fallacy and also inaccurate when it comes to the fact that, as someone else said, once novelty of their franchise wears off they see diminishing returns not increases.

That being said I don't agree X-Men could never be a billion dollar franchise. I think it's definitely possible.

 

[Davidstorm]

possible is
but I see it as very difficult
looking at the history of the franchise outside the United States, she has always been strong at the box office, but locally it has always been a weak-legged franchise even with great films like DOFP and x2.
for it to become a billion-dollar franchise, it has to move locally from an average of 200 million, to more than 400, what could they do to bring this whole audience? what other franchises did not do, that they can do and draw attention and bring all that audience? Perhaps DP now calls attention because of the promises is travel to space,but I do not know to what extent it can increase the public.

 

[psylockolussus]

How much copies sell X-Men '92?
Look for that and you find out another fact against cartoon popolarity today.

facts, not faith.

Lmao so thatsyour basis for saying tas isn't a popular cartoon. Remind us again that Apocalypse is the third best cbm villain. The credibility is strong here.

What if a part of the deal is to have the current cast brought over to Disney X-Men? I mean under Marvel the current cast could be alright, but please no more focus on Logan, Xavier, Erik and Mystique. Some may say "no way" but people thought the OT cast would never be in another movie after X3 but they were.

Perhaps if Dark Phoenix is a hit they will bring the cast over. This is all on Kinberg and his team.

For me it's never been the casting, just the handling of the characters itself.

That's not gonna happen. Disney won't bow down and make adjustments for the Foxverse cast. If Marvel Stiudios didn't include Andrew Garfield and Sally Fields (in their respective Marvel roles) for the MCU, they won't cast Jlaw and company in their established X-Men roles. And don't compare the ot cast to the current cast in this case. MCU won't spoil their continuity with Foxverse continuity by keeping those actors in the same role.

As for Dark PhoeniX being a hit... It would be lucky to outgross Apocalypse. MCU would just start from scratch, they simply don't need Foxverse's continuity and they probably want their own take to the source material. Also They could make a X-Men film three times more successful. They don't need Dp's cast. Keeping dp's cast won't be about handling the characters.

 

[def28]

Boys, are we talked about popolarity in our fan little garden or popularity in real world?

X-Men's IMDB votes are less than 30.000.
X-Men '92 sales are 40.000.

It was 58,804.

So any comic under that should be a property nobody cares about? Right?

A billion is not as easy as it sounds. Marvel made a well received Spider man film with RDJ/Iron man all over the posters and trailers and it did not even really get close to a billion.

And after 3 films that tainted Spidey's rep it still managed to almost be the highest grossing worldwide. What does that tell you? Last I checked 880m is not that far from a billion and closer then 709.

If XMDP makes 880m you'll be seeing many predictions for a billion on the next film. Quality fatigue is the reason Spidey and X-Men can't hit that number...yet. Having 2-3 meh-poorly received films does damage. Clearly the potential is there for both with or without Marvel Studios.

 

[psylockolussus]

Well, you have to think about a few things:

Jackmen retired. Is Disney/Marvel interested in getting the X-Men without Wolverine?
After carefully creating an acclaimed and cohesive universe, are they interested in bringing that mess an universe full of continuity errors?
Are they interested in having two Quicksilvers?

So no, I don't think there is any way that is going to happen.

In my opinion, I don't think they are fond of the over all direction of the Foxverse franchise. Too many wasted characters, a continuity that doesn't make sense anymore, multiple retcons, films with bad reception. Its not for their best interest to adopt Foxverse into their own well established film continuity.

 

[fobi]

Are we really arguing whether the animated series wasn't a big deal? Lol. There's absolutely no denying that it was.

 

[Ordet]

Are we really arguing whether the animated series wasn't a big deal? Lol. There's absolutely no denying that it was.

For the last time, nobody tell that it WASn't.

 

[Ordet]

It was 58,804.

So any comic under that should be a property nobody cares about? Right?

Under? also above.

You all think that we comics' reader have a sort of importance. False.
We don't bring the real money.

Do you think Disney bought Marvel for the comics?

Superhero comics sale are very disappointing in term of profit.

 

[def28]

Weren't you just trying to prove comics sales in some straw man argument yourself?

My friend actually recently named his Daughter after a character because of the show and doesn't collect comics or go on movie boards caring about this stuff. If you want to actually interview every 80s and 90s kid and ask them if they remember, like or still care about the animated series then please do so and come back with your info. Otherwise you will not be convincing anyone based on your unpopular, non-fact based opinion when plenty shows otherwise. The 80s/90s kids are a generation obsessed with nostalgia and because of youtube these shows stay more relevant and easy to access for not only them but also gen Z.

Just like those people won't forget Batman The Animated series, they will not forget growing up watching X-Men every week through their childhood. It's 2018 not 2050. The theme alone won't be forgotten for many decades, and something tells me that will transfer to a feature sooner then later.

 

[X-Maniac]

The X-Men animated series was definitely popular.

And I think we'll get something far closer to the spirit of the cartoons and comics once Disney get to work on the X-Men.

With Kinberg's Dark Phoenix it could go either way. He might make more effort to show he can rectify some of the mistakes of previous films. Or he might be restrained by his own likes and dislikes, and by the demands of the studio execs.

If Dark Phoenix is really good, it will be too little too late. If it's bad, it just proves our point that the X-Men are better elsewhere and the vision is now so far off track that a Disney takeover is the best option.

 

[Confusion]

That's revisionism.

1) In the era where loads of people read comics, that amount of people would never covered the cost of the music composer for the movie.

2) the cartoon of '90 hasn't an audience from then. It is not a classic still remembered like Saint Seiya or others japan ones.
I like that cartoon, but you all have a distorted vision of his popolarity: today is near zero.
Fact: there aren't merchandising about it (while you can find mecha figures from the most loser of robot cartoon)

Aside X-Men fan, nobody remember it.

Play the theme song for that cartoon around a lot of people. It's like a Trigger word for a sleeper cell.

 

[2kt09]

Play the theme song for that cartoon around a lot of people. It's like a Trigger word for a sleeper cell.

Moving on...
Is Hans Zimmer known for recycling themes as much as Elfman?
Not quite sure if he'd fuse the TAS one for this movie set in the 90s with the Kamen/Ottman theme.

 

[BeholdMe]

The fact of the situation is currently under Fox the XMen as a team are not being properly utilized and most are pushed in the back to prop up the same villains they put the spotlight on. As fans you don’t have to except that because they need to do better. If they give us a proper XMen film focusing on the team and nailing the characterization of these iconic characters regardless if it’s Fox or Disney it will be greatly appreciated and accepted by the masses that they show they respect the characters they are using. In the 90s XMen really exploded on the scene as the top dogs for a reason, remind the masses why they still deserve that title. I personally don’t watch GotG, Thor, Avengers etc but from the little I seen they give their characters voices that the audiences love which is why IW is slaying already you can’t deny that impact jist bechse you may not like them they are doing it right and XMen needs to get back on level ground which is why I hope DP shifts things back in the right direction and it’s not more of the same. These MCU vs Fox’s version of the XMen just needs to stop they are obviously doing something right which should encourage other studios to bring their A Game which not all studios are doing and there is nothing wrong with admitting they aren’t doing a good job rather than being in denial. As fans we deserve the best to appeal to the masses, also just because a certain movie isn’t Oscar nominated doesn’t take away from it being a great movie when superhero movies aren’t normally even nominated, besides most of the movies that win aren’t always good it’s lost its appeal so to downplay the success of a movie because of that is just fooolish, they are plenty of overlooked movies.

 

[Mad Ones]

DeWanda Wise has said she wants to play Storm in the future.