Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 14

[SumT]

Why would we give him credit since 3/4 cbms he has written or co-written are considered some of the worst in the genre.

That's like saying Blomkamp should be considered a great director despite only making one good movie. writers/directors are judged by their majority of their work, not isolated cases.

Some of you really like calling people negative despite having way more concrete arguments against Kinberg than you who defend him....

perfectly said. 5 scripts are more than enough to judge a writer/creative.

 

[Cktopl33]

Yes, Singer was primarily at fault for Apocalypse, but he was working from a screenplay that Kinberg was the sole writer of (I know you're going to quibble about the story credit, but I don't care). Kinberg also has a long history of writing terrible movies.

I'd be much more optimistic about DP if Kinberg was directing from someone else's script. It's also worrying that he chose a blockbuster as his directorial debut; I'm not sure that's ever turned out well.

Kinberg was co-writer, not sole writer. Learn the difference. He's a sole writer on Dark Phoenix because no other writers are listed or credited for that movie. Not on Apocalypse. He's credited with screenplay because he is the one who types out the actual physical script document that ends up in actors hands which incorporate all the ideas from the story team. Basically translating the story in shooting-script form which is required in film-making. There is usually only one person who types the final script. That doesn't mean they're creating the whole story unless there are no other writers attached on a movie.

A director always has input in the script because they will be directing a movie based on their vision, their interpretation. That's why scripts often change if written before a director is attached. If it is written alongside a director, the director often collaborate with the scriptwriter (or writing team) to shape the story in a way that fits their directing style. Otherwise, you have directors who write and direct their own script usually so they retain complete control over their own story. This is because when you have multiple writers, each writer retain a certain amount of credit & input for the final script (sometimes a script can become unfocused as a result). Even if a script is rewritten, the new writer who incorporates a certain percentage of the previous writer's script into the revision allow that previous writer to be eligible for a writing credit on a movie.

 

[Cktopl33]

the worst thing about Apocalypse was the script, not the direction. Lets be clear already.

Kinberg's x-men written movies HAVE many problems. Script problems. The director uses to change/improve stuff.... so that could tell us that the original script/versions could be even worse (we already read the Dofp previous script, the dialogue was..... questionable).

So.... if Kinberg's X3, F4 and Apocalypse have mediocre scripts..... should we expect a masterpiece now of a sudden or what?

lets be a bit more realistic, please. We've been following this franchise for 18 years, we should know better by now. Kinberg as a writer is mediocre. He didnt learn from X3 mistakes. 10 years later. So..... should we believe now that he learned from 2016 to 2018?? just in 2 years?

Um....NO.....they were equally worse. The script AND the direction, to which Singer had control over. So YES, let's be clear. It was NOT a well directed movie. It was NOT shot well. Many VFX shots were not well put together. Action sequences were not shot well. Edits were clunky. Costumes did NOT look good. He did not shape a well structured story with all the writers (including him) as they put together the script, which he was present for. Singer had control over every aspect of production, from pre to post. HE is responsible for that. That's his job as director. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's just reality. That's what a director does.

And, yes, let's be realistic. Kinberg was always part of a story team on these films. These are not his own sole scripts. 3 writers for Fantastic Four, 4 writers on Apocalypse, 2 writers on X3. It seemed he learned enough to know he wanted to go alone on Dark Phoenix with one single vision rather than have a mesh of writers with conflicting viewpoints. So, we'll see how that play out. I'm interested to see how it turn out since these movies rarely have a single writer, let alone a writer who is also directing the film.

 

[BaronZemo]

Um....NO.....they were equally worse. The script AND the direction, to which he had control over both. So YES, let's be clear. It was NOT a well directed movie. It was NOT shot well. Many VFX shots were not well put together. Action sequences were not shot well. Edits were clunky. Costumes did NOT look good. He did not shape a well structured story with all the writers (including him) as they put together the script, which he was present for. Singer had control over every aspect of production, from pre to post. HE is responsible for that. That's his job as director. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's just reality. That's what a director does.

And, yes, let's be realistic. Kinberg was always part of a story team on these films. These are not his own sole scripts. 3 writers for Fantastic Four, 4 writers on Apocalypse, 2 writers on X3. It seemed he learned enough to know he wanted to go alone on Dark Phoenix with one single vision rather than have a mesh of writers with conflicting viewpoints. So, we'll see how that play out. I'm interested to see how it turn out since these movies rarely have a single writer, let alone a writer who is also directing the film.

He is always the one who writes the final draft. You seem fixated with the number of his co-writers when in reality, IT DOESN'T MATTER. F4's final draft wasn't Trank, it was Kinberg and so were the third act reshoots.

Apoocalypse final draft was written by Kinberg, NOT DOUGHTERTY OR HARRIS. Do you know how important is the final writer of a script? he can basically discard anything he wants for the previous writers. Those movies writing in on Kinberg, no one else.

 

[x-er]

why is there no thread for jessica chastain? i was just about to post that based on Ms. Sloane and her role in the Martian, she's practically a perfect emma frost, which would be a great role for an X-Men team.
http://www.pfspublishing.com/bookcl...ma-frost-villain-teacher-ice-white-queen.html

I guess Fox felt adding both emma frost and alien races to Dark Phoenix was too convoluted for hollywood though.

edit: it's because she's still nameless isn't it?

 

[Erik Lensherr]

why is there no thread for jessica chastain? i was just about to post that based on Ms. Sloane and her role in the Martian, she's practically a perfect emma frost, which would be a great role for an X-Men team.
http://www.pfspublishing.com/bookcl...ma-frost-villain-teacher-ice-white-queen.html

I guess Fox felt adding both emma frost and alien races to Dark Phoenix was too convoluted for hollywood though.

edit: it's because she's still nameless isn't it?

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=531783

 

[X-Maniac]

The problem for me is that Kinberg is part of a much larger machine who have shaped this franchise.

Fox as a studio has had a very spotty track record with these films. It all went off the rails after X2, got back on track with DoFP, then crashed again with the very next film as though they had learned nothing.

As for the spin-offs, Logan depicts the X-Men as dead (and kills off the two remaining), and Deadpool 2 shows the X-Men merely as a cameo. So I can't really count them as representing 'the X-Men' in any way, but they do justice to their main characters.

It's the overall quality/consistency that is worrying, and also the treatment of key/classic characters. X:A did not do justice to Jubilee, Storm, Psylocke, Angel, Apocalypse or even Blob for that matter.

What's becoming apparent is that Fox is unwilling or unable to create a proper ensemble. They pick two or three characters and focus on those, relegating everyone else to the background - this approach works with solo spin-offs but is frustrating for a mainline X-Men film.

So, given that, I'm not expecting much of an ensemble in Dark Phoenix. It doesn't seem to be the approach they take, or something they can pull off. So I'm expecting to be frustrated with some of the character treatments in Dark Phoenix.

 

[SumT]

Um....NO.....they were equally worse. The script AND the direction, to which Singer had control over. So YES, let's be clear. It was NOT a well directed movie. It was NOT shot well. Many VFX shots were not well put together. Action sequences were not shot well. Edits were clunky. Costumes did NOT look good. He did not shape a well structured story with all the writers (including him) as they put together the script, which he was present for. Singer had control over every aspect of production, from pre to post. HE is responsible for that. That's his job as director. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's just reality. That's what a director does.

And, yes, let's be realistic. Kinberg was always part of a story team on these films. These are not his own sole scripts. 3 writers for Fantastic Four, 4 writers on Apocalypse, 2 writers on X3. It seemed he learned enough to know he wanted to go alone on Dark Phoenix with one single vision rather than have a mesh of writers with conflicting viewpoints. So, we'll see how that play out. I'm interested to see how it turn out since these movies rarely have a single writer, let alone a writer who is also directing the film.

how close is your relationship with Kinberg?
sorry, I cant take your constant deffense of Kinberg seriously anymore. Your constant reply to absolutely everyone who says something negative about him is entering the "weird territory". Unless he's your friend or something similar, that would explain it.

Anyway... from my part, class dismissed

 

[Cktopl33]

He is always the one who writes the final draft. You seem fixated with the number of his co-writers when in reality, IT DOESN'T MATTER. F4's final draft wasn't Trank, it was Kinberg and so were the third act reshoots.

Apoocalypse final draft was written by Kinberg, NOT DOUGHTERTY OR HARRIS. Do you know how important is the final writer of a script? he can basically discard anything he wants for the previous writers. Those movies writing in on Kinberg, no one else.

False. All writing credits are for actual writing. "Screenplay by", which is shared by three people on Fantastic Four, is a credit (in that case as a result of arbitration due to the number of writers) where the writers have contributed to at least 33% of the screenplay to the final shooting draft, even with rewrites. Otherwise, such individual won’t be eligible for said credit.That's why the number of co-writers are important because it deal with residuals and money paid to a writer.

When you see "written by" (X-Men: The Last Stand) that mean the writer or writing team is entitled to both the “Story by” credit and the “Screenplay by” credit, having contributed to the final draft.

"Story by" (Apocalypse, Days of Future Past) credit means a writer(s) might write a treatment or outline that contributes enough to the finished product that the guild gives them a story by credit. They don't write the script itself -where each and every line of dialog, each action blocked out in a "what you see" organization on paper. Instead, they create more of a written narrative, rather than a "ready to shoot" description of what happens in each scene. What they write is later translated into script format for shooting.

Sharing credit is result of arbitration. If they have writing credit, they have input into the final (latest) script draft. If what they've written doesn't significantly contribute enough to the latest draft, then they receive no writing credit on the movie. Screenplay credits are complicated. That's why one writer put it:

In the end, it’s better to be the only writer on a movie. Unfortunately, One Writer per Movie doesn’t happen as often as it should.

When a director directs a script, they are interpreting the script and further enact their own changes as they see fit.

 

[Cktopl33]

how close is your relationship with Kinberg?
sorry, I cant take your constant deffense of Kinberg seriously anymore. Your constant reply to absolutely everyone who says something negative about him is entering the "weird territory". Unless he's your friend or something similar, that would explain it.

Anyway... from my part, class dismissed

Is it my fault that you don't understand how script-writing work? No. Maybe you should go back to class?...or take some? Should anyone take what you say seriously when you consider "weird territory" a position that doesn't reflect your own? A little hypocritical. Are you threatened when someone doesn't agree with or challenges your constant often baseless position of attacks? Are you a personal childhood enemy of Kinberg as a result? Sorry, I don't follow "herd" mentality. If you can't handle that...well...that's not my problem is it? You can cry about it elsewhere if you like, if it's that problematic for you.....

 

[2kt09]

Is it my fault that you don't understand how script-writing work? No. Maybe you should go back to class?...or take some? Should anyone take what you say seriously when you consider "weird territory" a position that doesn't reflect your own? A little hypocritical. Are you threatened when someone doesn't agree with or challenges your constant often baseless position of attacks? Are you a personal childhood enemy of Kinberg as a result? Sorry, I don't follow "herd" mentality. If you can't handle that...well...that's not my problem is it? You can cry about it elsewhere if you like, if it's that problematic for you.....

You've argued far better than he deflected. Don't stoop to his level.

 

[Cktopl33]

You've argued far better than he deflected. Don't stoop to his level.

Perhaps. I don't deny Kinberg's involvement in bad story structure of some of these films because he does have contribution to the final draft. What I DO dismiss is the fact that he ALONE is solely responsible, not only for the final drafts of said script, but the outcome of the movie. That's placing the responsibility where it is not reflected. And I'll speak up on it. With Dark Phoenix, the ball is in his court as the only writer and director. If it bombs, it's rightly ALL his fault. If it success, it's rightly ALL his credit.

 

[Drexelhand]

Man, SumT is looking for a victory, Cktopl33 is going for the jugular. This is some debate club stuff going on right here.

 

[psylockolussus]

Okay this might seemed far fetched but do you guys think it’s possible that Dimon could’ve filmed scenes that are not going to be in the final product of the film just for sneak screenings only? And maybe the Fox executives liked some of what they saw and wanted him to change somethings?

Scenes filmed not making into the final cut happens all the time.

 

[x-er]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=531783

thanks! I think they should put Jessica Chastain in the title and probably eliminate the name Lilandra
If I understand correctly this is no longer alien queen Lilandra but a weird hybrid character combining emma frost's looks with an alien character.

 

[Cktopl33]

Looks like no Dark Phoenix at SDCC this year.

As far as when the first trailer will officially release to the public:

The first trailer for Days of Future Past released nearly 7 months before the film's release date. You could tell since it didn't include major VFX shots.

With Apocalypse, the first trailer premiered 5 months before release (which was only 4 months after wrapping principle photography) but that was plagued with sloppy unfinished effects.

For Dark Phoenix, if they follow the same 5 month release schedule of Apocalypse, the first trailer likely won't premiere until near end of Aug or some time beginning in Sept. But because they've had more time to work on VFX due to release date push back, the first trailer should have fairly finalized effects. However, if they choose to premiere the trailer 7 months before release (like Days of Future Past), then we should get the 1st trailer any time this month. They might do a surprise showing at SDCC, but if not they likely would just release it soon after online as TrailerTrack suggest. Otherwise it's prob Aug-Sept time frame.

 

[Ryan1210]

As far as when the first trailer will officially release to the public:

The first trailer for Days of Future Past released nearly 7 months before the film's release date. You could tell since it didn't include major VFX shots.

With Apocalypse, the first trailer premiered 5 months before release (which was only 4 months after wrapping principle photography) but that was plagued with sloppy unfinished effects.

For Dark Phoenix, if they follow the same 5 month release schedule of Apocalypse, the first trailer likely won't premiere until near end of Aug or some time beginning in Sept. But because they've had more time to work on VFX due to release date push back, the first trailer should have fairly finalized effects. However, if they choose to premiere the trailer 7 months before release (like Days of Future Past), then we should get the 1st trailer any time this month. They might do a surprise showing at SDCC, but if not they likely would just release it soon after online as TrailerTrack suggest. Otherwise it's prob Aug-Sept time frame.

Yeah anything can happen. Deadpool 2 is coming to SDCC!

 

[fobi]

Is Sophie Turner still filming GOT? I imagine if she is and can't be there, they really can't have a panel without the star of the movie. Still possible they could tease some footage as a surprise. James McAvoy will be there for Glass.

 

[Cktopl33]

Is Sophie Turner still filming GOT? I imagine if she is and can't be there, they really can't have a panel without the star of the movie. Still possible they could tease some footage as a surprise. James McAvoy will be there for Glass.

Possible. After all, 20th Century Fox is doing a presentation. However, they likely would have made an announcement. So don't be surprise if they launch marketing in Sept (which is when The Predator releases) because they have other films to focus on prior to Dark Phoenix releasing. A 5 month-before-release date schedule is about the same time-frame they used previously for Apocalypse. And they did screen a trailer at CineEurope, but according to TrailerTrack, this is usually to get feedback from industry audience who tend to be more discerning.

I'm just interested in how the VFX will look this time around. With Kinberg wanting nearly a year to perfect the look and the movie having the biggest set piece of all the x-men films, I'm eager to see his approach utilizing Jean's scope in power as well as how different this film will look which so many have described. We know this time he's going to incorporate the fire aspects of her power based on the visualization concepts that were released awhile ago, unlike what X3's disintegration look did back in 2006.

 

[fobi]

Yeah. I guess they could get a proper "reveal" at NYCC. I do hope we get a teaser before that though. I think getting the very first look at any type of footage in October is cutting it close.

 

[Cktopl33]

Yeah. I guess they could get a proper "reveal" at NYCC. I do hope we get a teaser before that though. I think getting the very first look at any type of footage in October is cutting it close.

Oh, it'll be before October. Probably a trailer will be attached to The Predator or most likely (I completely forgot!) The Darkest Minds in the beginning of August since that movie is somewhat similar to x-men which have people with special abilities. That's around a week after SDCC. So yeah, that time-frame is probably likely (or would make more sense) for the trailer debut if nothing is shown during SDCC. By August, that'll be ten months since it's production shoot to have visual effects completed for a trailer. Because of that, I'm expecting something cool when the trailer debut with all that time spent perfecting VFX.

 

[EnDz0n3]

We know this time he's going to incorporate the fire aspects of her power based on the visualization concepts that were released awhile ago, unlike what X3's disintegration look did back in 2006.

We know this time he's going to incorporate the fire aspects of her power based on the character's appearance in the third act of X-men: Apocalypse.

It would be another one of this franchise's big blunders if they change the manifestation of a character's power after it's appeared a certain way in a scene that was highly touted by fans and critics, regardless of how the rest of the movie was greeted.

 

[psylockolussus]

If its not attached to The Predator which features Olivia Munn, then maybe they would debut it with the theatrical release of The Hate U Give. Worst case scenario, it comes out in December days before Alita: Battle Angel's release.

 

[Cktopl33]

We know this time he's going to incorporate the fire aspects of her power based on the character's appearance in the third act of X-men: Apocalypse.

It would be another one of this franchise's big blunders if they change the manifestation of a character's power after it's appeared a certain way in a scene that was highly touted by fans and critics, regardless of how the rest of the movie was greeted.

Yeah, but that appearance in Apocalypse....didn't look all that great. That in itself was a blunder. It looked like Sophie Turner drowning in a sea of sloppy particle simulation. The fire effects in Harry Potter looked better than that. Which is why X-men Apocalypse appeared all the more silly. With more time spent on VFX, I'm expecting a less goofy depiction of that power and a more realistic fire effect given the movie is more gritty and grounded.

 

[Cktopl33]

If its not attached to The Predator which features Olivia Munn, then maybe they would debut it with the theatrical release of The Hate U Give. Worst case scenario, it comes out in December days before Alita: Battle Angel's release.

It's most likely releasing at the beginning of Aug. (attached to The Darkest Minds) If not, then Sept (The Predator) which is the same length of time the first trailer for Apocalypse released before the film came out. Anything beyond is too late a time-frame to start a marketing campaign for a film releasing in Feb.