Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[kevork89]

Probably cause despite the front, I don't think this really comes down to Marvel vs Fox here. Outside of the deal of course. This is X-Men fans vs X-Men fans when it comes down to it. If the X-Men were confirmed staying at Fox these debates would still be happening without Marvel in the equation. What's the most interesting, is how different things were post X3.

Ultimately you don't see people on the Logan, Legion and Deadpool boards having these lengthy arguments. That kindof says something. Instead you'll get the occasional X-Men board poster blasting Deadpool because of it's humor.

Yes def you are right. We all are X-Men fans. Very passionate bunch we are. I think we all want what’s best. I also think there’s a disrespect from a lot of people towards people who still like the Fox films and there’s also a disrespect by some towards what Marvel has done. I just wish people would calm down lol. We still have ages to this movie plus this deal finalizing.

 

[def28]

Yes def you are right. We all are X-Men fans. Very passionate bunch we are. I think we all want what’s best. I also think there’s a disrespect from a lot of people towards people who still like the Fox films and there’s also a disrespect by some towards what Marvel has done. I just wish people would calm down lol. We still have ages to this movie plus this deal finalizing.

Totally Kevork. There are people who have been coming back here for over 12 years to just talk about the X-Men films. People care about it enough to defend what they think is best. When you have people with under 100 posts calling some of the most loyal X-Men fans for years on here Marvel fanboys and to get off the boards, things are gonna get ugly. I've watched opinions change over the years, I've seen people wait and see and I've seen them change their view.

And yes, I feel bad for those still looking forward to the film without taking place in these debates. There's just not much going on. At least it's not like Fant4stic...

It is gonna be a long wait. Good thing for New Mutants and Deadpool 2!

Hmmm... I think all those years was enough to me.

Which is fair as well.

 

[Ordet]

Yes def you are right. We all are X-Men fans. Very passionate bunch we are. I think we all want what’s best. I also think there’s a disrespect from a lot of people towards people who still like the Fox films and there’s also a disrespect by some towards what Marvel has done. I just wish people would calm down lol. We still have ages to this movie plus this deal finalizing.

you're right

 

[Tymminator]

3 voice actors credited on imdb.

CGIed characters?

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt6565702/fullcredits/miscellaneous?ref_=m_ttfc_28

Still curious who they are going to be.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I enjoyed DOFP, and thought it handled its subject matter with the same tone and maturity that Marvel Studios handled Captain America Winter Soldier. This is why I find the idea that Marvel can't do a good X-Men movie, or can't handle its "mature themes", to be laughable. Both of those movies had the same tone, more or less.

And Civil War pretty much set the table for mutants to be hated in the MCU (the public is sick of the Avenger's antics and the government is cracking down on them). That world is now perfect for the X-Men to inhabit, and so many things the X-Men comics have had but FOX has always had so much difficulty with and took so long to get around to doing (cosmic adventures, Sentinels, colorful costumes) have already been set up for them in the MCU to do right away.

When Marvel gets X-Men back and starts making X-Men movies, I think fans of the property won't have anything to worry about. I am excited for the change. Outside of Deadpool and Logan, the core X-Men franchise was getting stale.

As for Simon Kinberg, it seems the quality of his writing rises and falls depending on the director and studio's vision for the project. It will be interesting to see how well he does now that he's the director as well as the writer, and its his own vision that he has to execute, instead of someone else's.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I wouldn't even say Mystique is evil in the comics, more just in-and-out-of-universe annoying.

"Oh looks like it's time to be on a team and betray everyone for what seems like the 50th time".

So essentially like movie Magneto then?

 

[Mya]

Check the EXIF Data from this pic.

It says Jessica's character name is Smith.

 

[Ordet]

Check the EXIF Data from this pic.

It says Jessica's character name is Smith.

Seems like 'John Doe', so i don't bet on it.

 

[Ordet]

So essentially like movie Magneto then?

It's not the first time that i head about this 'ping-pong' Magneto. That is totally false.

He didn't change his vision, neither at the end of Apocalypse where he stay with the villain until his philosophy match the Apo.'s one.
When he understand that Apocalypse doesn't love all muties, like him, but only the powerful ones, he betrays him.

 

[psylockolussus]

Strongly disagree. We’ve all said how good Marvel are have we not? Discussed in length how they can take Z list characters and make them great. Well there’s nothing suggesting that even if Fox do bad with these characters then Marvel can’t do good with them. What makes you think Marvel won’t use these characters? I really don’t see Dark Phoenix not being well received having any effect on Marvel and their plans with the future of the X-Men. All they need to do is reboot it.

Kevin Feige already said that they won't feature Spider-Man villains that were already shown before (like anytime soon). So the X-Men villains showcased in the foxverse films could get the same treatment especially if were badly received in those films. As for Gambit, the underperformance of that film would be a huge red flag for the MCU to not adapt him so quickly. Also, the X-Men have a huge catalogue of characters. Gambit, would probably be ignored for a while and that would suck.

To think that MCU won't factor in the reception of the 2018/19 films is naive. And they probably want to distance themselves from the Foxverse films as much as they can. Of course there are certain characters that would be adapted right away regardless of Foxverse's treatment, but not every character.

 

[kevork89]

Kevin Feige already said that they won't feature Spider-Man villains that were already shown before (like anytime soon). So the X-Men villains showcased in the foxverse films could get the same treatment especially if were badly received in those films. As for Gambit, the underperformance of that film would be a huge red flag for the MCU to not adapt him so quickly. Also, the X-Men have a huge catalogue of characters. Gambit, would probably be ignored for a while and that would suck.

To think that MCU won't factor in the reception of the 2018/19 films is naive. And they probably want to distance themselves from the Foxverse films as much as they can. Of course there are certain characters that would be adapted right away regardless of Foxverse's treatment, but not every character.

The difference is Spider-Man is on its third reboot and X-Men is still pretty much one whole franchise. Spider-Man overall from a story standpoint is more well known through the masses. They know the main villains they know the uncle Ben backstory. Marvel can go ahead with different stories for a Spider-Man. There’s no point in comparing. X-Men most people only know what they’ve seen from the movies. And there’s been so much buzz already about Disney acquiring Fox and the main talk point has been that X-Men and F4 will return to Marvel. The general audience won’t care. Characters will be rebooted. If anything they won’t touch Dark Phoenix storyline and maybe DoFP storyline but honestly I don’t think anyone else will take notice. There’s so many storylines to pick from.

As for characters. Gambit is a pretty major character and X-Men. He won’t be shafted. I’m sure Marvel will still include him.

 

[kineticist]

I keep seeing people on twitter say Kinberg announced that her name is Smith but I haven’t seen any quote or anything from him talking about it?

 

[psylockolussus]

The difference is Spider-Man is on its third reboot and X-Men is still pretty much one whole franchise. Spider-Man overall from a story standpoint is more well known through the masses. They know the main villains they know the uncle Ben backstory. Marvel can go ahead with different stories for a Spider-Man. There’s no point in comparing. X-Men most people only know what they’ve seen from the movies. And there’s been so much buzz already about Disney acquiring Fox and the main talk point has been that X-Men and F4 will return to Marvel. The general audience won’t care. Characters will be rebooted. If anything they won’t touch Dark Phoenix storyline and maybe DoFP storyline but honestly I don’t think anyone else will take notice. There’s so many storylines to pick from.

As for characters. Gambit is a pretty major character and X-Men. He won’t be shafted. I’m sure Marvel will still include him.

They won't touch him for the first film or the first three if the Gambit film underderperform. And like I said there are a Lot of X-Men a listers. Its not like Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four where they can't really choose who would be the titular heroes.

 

[SumT]

Marvel wont make the same mistake as Fox of spending decades without even showing Gambit and Rogue together. Marvel would do exactly the opposite of Fox: pushing the couple as soon as possible. Probably not on the first film, but once they do a sequel, Rogue and Gambit would be there. Id bet money on that

 

[psylockolussus]

I would love that. Rogue and Gambit in a film together is way overdue.

 

[SumT]

take Antman as an example: even if the characters arent technically Hank and Janet, they introduced both together on the first movie, and now both get a sequel with their names on the tittle. I expect a similar scenario with Rogue and Gambit. not exactly getting a team-up movie, but at least one of them appearing on the other's solo movie. Just a matter of time.

 

[Lip]

As much as I'd like to see Gambit and Rogue, I think they can wait. I'd like to see Rogue introduced first with the brotherhood, and watch her getting her flight and super strength powers. Then joining the X-Men and being developed as an individual and a X-Men member. Then they can introduce Gambit.

Rogue is a more important member than Gambit is, and the female characters have been neglected by Fox for 18 years. Gambit can wait.

 

[DACrowe]

I have just one very simple question to Fox defenders:

Do you want the X-Men to continue to be supporting characters (more one and done roles) or finally be the lead characters of their own movies?

Obviously the former. But do I want to see more superhero movies that do exciting things with the genre and archetypes, or more movies that are like every other MCU film? The answer there is the former too, and more important to me than your question. And I suspect that is the main difference in our perspectives.

P.S. I am less a Fox defender than I am an MCU skeptic, because while I enjoy most of their movies, I have never really loved any of them the way I did Logan, X2, FC, or DOFP.

 

[DACrowe]

It's troll baiting. The fans "genuinely want hegemony". I can easily make up facts too.

Also, Fox or Marvel should make a Fantastic Four movie with Medusa, Ant-Man, Luke Cage and Crystal. Or maybe Spider-Man, Black Panther, She-Hulk and Storm, instead of Sue, Reed, Johny and Ben. Because why not? Why do they need to understand the essense of the material and the core of it, which is the characters, if they can look some trivias at wikipedia and find out Namorita was part of FF? Like Raven was part of the X-Men?

Calling someone who disagrees with you a troll? Classy.

 

[DACrowe]

I disagree. I think from a visual and acting standpoint Civil War and Winter Solider handle themselves very differently and with reason. Those personalities are not simple and safe either. Are they as cinematically brilliant or complex as say Kubrick, Spielberg,Fincher etc? Nope, but neither is Singer by any means. But again...this is other forum talk and yes to each their own.


I'm sure DaCrowe knows very well which is why acknowledging it is ignored and replaced with costume criticisms or other studio bashing.

No, I don't dig in deep, because it just becomes the same conversation again and again, like the same half-dozen guys coming in here and exclaim, "I still hate Simon Kinberg today and cannot wait until this movie comes out and confirms why I hate him and want a reboot!"

Suffice to say, Winter Soldier is the only MCU movie that really attempts to do something radically different from the house style, and I have written countless posts why it fails and hedges its bets by ending like all the Phase Two MCU movies do (hero unites a team, a la The Avengers, and then must insert MacGuffins into arbitrary XYZ to save the world, in this case by causing CGI ships collapsing into the Potomac). Worse, I hate how it undercuts its political aspirations by absolving the U.S. government of being complicit in what is not the act of misguided war hawks and patriots, but foreign-worshipping Nazi-esque cults who can be purged and a status quo resumed.

It is why I prefer Civil War, because it makes no bones about being a silly superhero spectacle. I know some fans like it less for that reason, but all the MCU movies are infused with humor and a certain tonal consistency that just didn't lend itself to the spy games in TWS. Whereas turning a "war" into a friendly adversarial brawl between friends at the airport was perfectly in tune with Feige's airtight aesthetic. I also think it is why SM:H, Guardians 2, and Thor 3 were all so well received this year. They embraced that the Marvel movies are self-effacing and sometimes frivolous. So make them comedies. It is actually why the ending of Guardians 2 is better than anything in the Captain America movies, because by presenting it all as a comedy, Gunn killing off Yondu created more pathos and drama than anything regarding Bucky.

But see? We are now lost in the weeds and way off-topic from Dark Phoenix, so suffice to say, I think the MCU house style is limited. Better than X-Men: Apocalypse? Absolutely! But not all X-films are made to be the same thing. There is a chance to improve and change things up in a radical way next time. Granted, Dark Phoenix is not what I wanted from it, but Logan was, and New Mutants and Deadpool 2 look like they can be.

 

[Lip]

Calling someone who disagrees with you a troll? Classy.

No, darling. I'm calling trolling when someone consistently ignores and twist our points by always reducing them to "costumes" or wanting the movies to look the same. If I'm wrong go ahead and show us where we've been saying that. We've been clear and very vocal about the treatment of the characters while also admiting that they did a fantastic job with Charles and Eric.

And I call making up facts trolling too. I can easily say all people who want the X-Men under FOX are all Kinberg lovers and X-Men haters. So where are your data when you say all the fans want movies looking the same?

That is trolling.

 

[DACrowe]

No, darling. I'm calling trolling when someone consistently ignores and twist our points by always reducing them to "costumes" or wanting the movies to look the same. If I'm wrong go ahead and show us where we've been saying that. We've been clear and very vocal about the treatment of the characters while also admiting that they did a fantastic job with Charles and Eric.

And I call making up facts trolling too. I can easily say all people who want the X-Men under FOX are all Kinberg lovers and X-Men haters. So where are your data when you say all the fans want movies looking the same?

That is trolling.

What facts did I make up, dear?

psycolossus pulled out a post from weeks ago where I responded to one of his rants and plopped it into the current conversation without context, regarding the "costumez" comment. I'm very clear about why I am skeptical about an MCU X-Men and why I like what Fox has only recently built with X-films. The response here is to call me a troll and imply I should go away so that the echo chamber can continue uninterrupted.

 

[Ordet]

No, darling. I'm calling trolling when someone consistently ignores and twist our points by always reducing them to "costumes" or wanting the movies to look the same. If I'm wrong go ahead and show us where we've been saying that. We've been clear and very vocal about the treatment of the characters while also admiting that they did a fantastic job with Charles and Eric.

And I call making up facts trolling too. I can easily say all people who want the X-Men under FOX are all Kinberg lovers and X-Men haters. So where are your data when you say all the fans want movies looking the same?

That is trolling.

We all know that all we are X-Men fans.
But we like different aspects of X-Men and pretend to forget facts that we don't like.
In both sides.

 

[def28]

No, I don't dig in deep, because it just becomes the same conversation again and again, like the same half-dozen guys coming in here and exclaim, "I still hate Simon Kinberg today and cannot wait until this movie comes out and confirms why I hate him and want a reboot!"

Suffice to say, Winter Soldier is the only MCU movie that really attempts to do something radically different from the house style, and I have written countless posts why it fails and hedges its bets by ending like all the Phase Two MCU movies do (hero unites a team, a la The Avengers, and then must insert MacGuffins into arbitrary XYZ to save the world, in this case by causing CGI ships collapsing into the Potomac). Worse, I hate how it undercuts its political aspirations by absolving the U.S. government of being complicit in what is not the act of misguided war hawks and patriots, but foreign-worshipping Nazi-esque cults who can be purged and a status quo resumed.

It is why I prefer Civil War, because it makes no bones about being a silly superhero spectacle. I know some fans like it less for that reason, but all the MCU movies are infused with humor and a certain tonal consistency that just didn't lend itself to the spy games in TWS. Whereas turning a "war" into a friendly adversarial brawl between friends at the airport was perfectly in tune with Feige's airtight aesthetic. I also think it is why SM:H, Guardians 2, and Thor 3 were all so well received this year. They embraced that the Marvel movies are self-effacing and sometimes frivolous. So make them comedies. It is actually why the ending of Guardians 2 is better than anything in the Captain America movies, because by presenting it all as a comedy, Gunn killing off Yondu created more pathos and drama than anything regarding Bucky.

But see? We are now lost in the weeds and way off-topic from Dark Phoenix, so suffice to say, I think the MCU house style is limited. Better than X-Men: Apocalypse? Absolutely! But not all X-films are made to be the same thing. There is a chance to improve and change things up in a radical way next time. Granted, Dark Phoenix is not what I wanted from it, but Logan was, and New Mutants and Deadpool 2 look like they can be.

You realize that response to you was about you ignoring the fact yet again that people have a major issue with the way far too many characters are handled in the X-Men films right? And somehow yet again you missed that? I really don't care about where the opinion on MCU films falls in here. Or how a few X-Men fans hate them. I am worried about how my favorite X-Men characters will continued to be treated. These films ruined too many and I don't want that to happen again.
That is the major issue with most here.

What is going on? That's all the last page was about.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Suffice to say, Winter Soldier is the only MCU movie that really attempts to do something radically different from the house style, and I have written countless posts why it fails and hedges its bets by ending like all the Phase Two MCU movies do (hero unites a team, a la The Avengers, and then must insert MacGuffins into arbitrary XYZ to save the world, in this case by causing CGI ships collapsing into the Potomac). Worse, I hate how it undercuts its political aspirations by absolving the U.S. government of being complicit in what is not the act of misguided war hawks and patriots, but foreign-worshipping Nazi-esque cults who can be purged and a status quo resumed

Days of Future Past ended the same way. Everything bad that was happening was happening because Trask was manipulating everyone. Once he was stopped and arrested by the government, the dark future is changed and everyone lives happily ever after.

Even worse, the world is even more accepting of mutants in X-Men Apocalypse and Mystique is hailed as a hero (even though she was still seen pointing a gun at a human on live TV in DOFP). At least at the end of Civil War the Accords are still in place and now Captain America is a fugitive. So who did better with the lasting consequences there?

To top it all off, apparently in Dark Phoenix the X-Men are going to be seen as national heroes and Xavier will be on magazine covers. Even though Apocalypse and four powerful mutants (one of whom is Magneto, already a wanted fugitive) nearly destroyed the world in the last movie. I get that these movies span ten years apart but come the **** on!