Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[ImSGirl95]

Most of the Mods seem very pro Disney takeover and anyone saying anything to the contrary or differing opinions seem to get banned/comments deleted.

Yeah, that, or maybe, just maybe ... they had an enough of the constant bashing MCU in a X-Men thread?
Seriouslly, there is/was a time when every time I visit this board there was a certain MCU bashing. And I didn't visit the board often.

 

[mclay18]

I feel Dark Phoenix is going to not only going to mark the end of the Xmen under Fox era, but the era of novel and unique comic book movies themselves. No longer will we get the differing styles of Nolans Batman trilogy, Raimis Spiderman series and of course the Xmen of Fox; all these type of movies gave a different twist to the comic book genre alongside MCU films.

But now that Disney will own it all, and with DCEU basically trying to copycat the MCU in the style of their films, we will only be getting 1 universal taste of comic book movies- for good or bad and that to me is slightly depressing.

It is still entirely possible that Disney acquiring Fox won't go through, a la Comcast's failed bid for Time Warner Cable back in 2014.

Even if it does go through, I don't really see Feige doing a complete overhaul of the X-Men franchise. I can see him keeping what he likes from the Fox era (like a few actors in certain roles) and redoing what he doesn't (Fantastic 4 will certainly be redone). And I think if Feige likes The New Mutants, Josh Boone may be able to get a trilogy after all. And Feige likes what Fox has done with Deadpool, so that is going to live on.

I can even see Feige letting Disney release some Marvel titles with the Fox branding, to keep some semblance of separation.

 

[psylockolussus]

Of course the government would approve. Murdoch and Trump are bffs.
And no way, he would keep the First Class/Apocalypse cast. He probably wants to distance their X-Men films from Foxverse films. They didn't keep Andrew Garfield and Sally Field for starters.

My biggest issue this movie was that they were jumping right into Dark Phoenix. When I was a teenager and reading this storyline as it came out, the reason it had a hard impact was you were following Jean for awhile now...in issue 101 she became Phoenix, then for a few years (in real time, in Comic time I know it was shorter) you saw her do awesome things, grow in power and then when the Hellfire Club business happens and that kickstarted the whole Dark Phoenix character and storyline you were fully invested. I feel jumping into it now without that buildup can cause you to lose something special.

Like with Days of Future Past, sure as with all Movie adaptions liberties were taken but still it was a very good film that I would argue that at the heart of it the core of the story was still intact although many changes were made from the original source material. Despite’s it’s changes, I could recognize what this story was. What it also had going for it was people were invested and it had the natural build up of several previous movies that work on several levels. I’m going to watch Dark Phoenix but I don’t expect it to have type of investment or build up. Who knows, maybe I’ll be surprised.

My main issue here is the creative team behind. Like this could be Dark Phoenix in name only but still be good like First Class. This won't be the case here, it'd be unfaithful to the comics and would suck as a film. All thanks to Kinberg. Apocalypse got bad reviews not because of comic inaccuracy but ibecause it sucked as a film.

 

[Jh7058622]

Yeah, that, or maybe, just maybe ... they had an enough of the constant bashing MCU in a X-Men thread?
Seriouslly, there is/was a time when every time I visit this board there was a certain MCU bashing. And I didn't visit the board often.

Oh whatever there are loads of people coming to this thread just to say they hate everything and cant wait for Disney blah blah blah. Most are just rebutting to the constant hate which maybe they shouldn't do but yeah.

 

[psylockolussus]

Me too. If it has good trailers and good reviews most people here will still be negative but I really hope it does well.

You have no real basis for this. Deadpool, Logan and Legixn got good reviews and aren't underrated here. While I find Logan overrated and that's just me.

 

[Frankeh]

Yeah, that, or maybe, just maybe ... they had an enough of the constant bashing MCU in a X-Men thread?
Seriouslly, there is/was a time when every time I visit this board there was a certain MCU bashing. And I didn't visit the board often.

Yea, whoever got wiped broke rules and I'm sure the mods explained to them. We aren't owed an explanation here, especially just because any of us agreed with their opinion.

 

[Marvel united]

It is still entirely possible that Disney acquiring Fox won't go through, a la Comcast's failed bid for Time Warner Cable back in 2014.

Even if it does go through, I don't really see Feige doing a complete overhaul of the X-Men franchise. I can see him keeping what he likes from the Fox era (like a few actors in certain roles) and redoing what he doesn't (Fantastic 4 will certainly be redone). And I think if Feige likes The New Mutants, Josh Boone may be able to get a trilogy after all. And Feige likes what Fox has done with Deadpool, so that is going to live on.

I can even see Feige letting Disney release some Marvel titles with the Fox branding, to keep some semblance of separation.

The deal will definitively go through. Trump is in favor of it and it will benefit him in several ways (mainly through expansion of Fox News) he's going to push for it to go through. And Disney Fox will make concessions to aspects of the deal the DOJ may have a problem with.

And it's pretty unlikely that Feige keeps anyone from the Foxverse. For one, he may have a completely different vision of who should play these characters. He had nothing to do with any of the castings for Apocalypse. This played out in November 2012 when Marvel/Feige refused Sony's offer to add Garfield to the MCU only ONE movie in.

 

[Phoenix Egg]

Me too. If it has good trailers and good reviews most people here will still be negative but I really hope it does well.

I don't even care about reviews. Bright is supposedly terrible and Stars Wars 8 is supposedly one of the greatest sci-fi stories of all, but I saw both of those and....lol

I just want a good X-Men movie. They lost the way a bit with Poccy, but even that was ok. Dark Phoenix will probably be pretty dang good if history serves.

Honestly, what I want from the trailer is the identity of Lamar's character.

 

[Marvel united]

I don't even care about reviews. Bright is supposedly terrible and Stars Wars 8 is supposedly one of the greatest sci-fi stories of all, but I saw both of those and....lol

I just want a good X-Men movie. They lost the way a bit with Poccy, but even that was ok. Dark Phoenix will probably be pretty dang good if history serves.

Honestly, what I want from the trailer is the identity of Lamar's character.

What history, exactly? Because all of Kinberg's films that he's wrote were pannd by critics.

 

[X-Maniac]

Most of the Mods seem very pro Disney takeover and anyone saying anything to the contrary or differing opinions seem to get banned/comments deleted.

No. The problem is that those defending everything Fox has done in this franchise are not able to conduct themselves in a civil manner.

There is no obligation to enjoy Dark Phoenix, even if it is the last X-Men movie Fox releases. Some will be happy about it, some will be sad, but the movie itself could be good or bad.

There's hardly anything to discuss because of a long wait for the promotional period to kick in - and that long wait is because this was envisaged as a two-part space opera, before the execs put their foot down over the budget and it became a grounded tale set on Earth but with a space rescue at the start.

A two-part space opera would have been much more exciting and would have given the story and many of the characters more room to be developed properly.

The reason people are anxious is because X:A took a big dump over the classic mythos of the X-Men. Many characters were badly treated in that film. For instance, Storm wasn't even given chance to explain why she was okay with Apocalypse raising a pyramid that wiped out all her people in Cairo.

And this is why people are justifiably worried about Dark Phoenix.

This franchise has a history of inconsistency, with many of the films since X2 being poorly received (X3, Origins) or having a weak box office performance (First Class, The Wolverine) or both (X-Men: Apocalypse). There have been two standalone successes (Logan, Deadpool) and one (DoFP) that recaptured the magic of the X2 days. But the franchise is quite wobbly to say the least.

And now the man who wrote X:A is writing and directing the next movie, people are understandably worried and looking for reassurance. The absence of Singer might mean Storm gets a few lines and that those don't end up on the cutting room floor, but we have no evidence of that yet.

 

[mclay18]

And it's pretty unlikely that Feige keeps anyone from the Foxverse. For one, he may have a completely different vision of who should play these characters. He had nothing to do with any of the castings for Apocalypse. This played out in November 2012 when Marvel/Feige refused Sony's offer to add Garfield to the MCU only ONE movie in.

We'll have to see once the deal crystallizes.

I can see Feige jettisoning the X-Men cast (like JLaw and Fassbender) for cost purposes... but then Disney is willing to shell out a LOT of money to keep major MCU actors in play like RDJ, ScarJo, Chris Hemsworth, and Chris Evans.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Lol You really think Evans and Hemsworth got paid the big bucks? Big stars they may be now but these two actors were infamously paid a paltry for even starring in movies they were leads in.

I think it’s safe to say Feige will not be paying JLaw’s $20 Million asking price. I have no idea what kind of money Fassy is making though.

 

[I Am The Knight]

We'll have to see once the deal crystallizes.

I can see Feige jettisoning the X-Men cast (like JLaw and Fassbender) for cost purposes... but then Disney is willing to shell out a LOT of money to keep major MCU actors in play like RDJ, ScarJo, Chris Hemsworth, and Chris Evans.

I don't think it's a question of money. It's more about not confusing your audience. Expect the MCU X-Men to be an all new cast.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

I read up on Cassandra Nova’s bio *if that’s who Chastain actually turns out to be. If the twist is that she is Nova it’ll make the most sense as to why she wants to “hurt” Charles by using/manipulating his prize pupil Jean, if Mystique does die I think Nova would play a part in it(through Jean) to kill her out of jealousy that the life Raven (had with Charles) was meant for her. In the Comics Nova played a part in Genosha’s genocide, so maybe she uses Jean to destroy the island and countless mutants. Nova’s whole mission is to ruin Xavier, tarnish the X-Mens reputation while having another agenda that involves using Dark Phoenix.

Charles is known for keeping secrets so I can see him locking Cassandra away on the astral plane because of her violent psyonic energy/thoughts, as teens (wiping his mother’s mind free of her existence and replaced them with memories of Raven) thus destroying her body in the process but her consciousness survived after the battle with Apocalypse she escaped and spent he last 9 years rebuilding her mind and body and studying her new powers.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Phoenix Egg]

I read up on Cassandra Nova’s bio *if that’s who Chastain actually turns out to be. If the twist is that she is Nova it’ll make the most sense as to why she wants to “hurt” Charles by using/manipulating his prize pupil Jean, if Mystique does die I think Nova would play a part in it(through Jean) to kill her out of jealousy that the life Raven (had with Charles) was meant for her. In the Comics Nova played a part in Genosha’s genocide, so maybe she uses Jean to destroy the island and countless mutants. Nova’s whole mission is to ruin Xavier, tarnish the X-Mens reputation while having another agenda that involves using Dark Phoenix.

Charles is known for keeping secrets so I can see him locking Cassandra away on the astral plane because of her violent psyonic energy/thoughts, as teens (wiping his mother’s mind free of her existence and replaced them with memories of Raven) thus destroying her body in the process but her consciousness survived after the battle with Apocalypse she escaped and spent he last 9 years rebuilding her mind and body and studying her new powers.

Just my thoughts.

Apparently, Chastain's character comes out of a spaceship though. Cassie Nova would be huge/insane, but I still would bet the money on her character being someone new.

 

[kineticist]

Comes out of a spaceship?

 

[DACrowe]

To be blunt, when it comes to juggling an ensemble cast the Avengers and Guardians movies smoke even the best X-Men movies.

In terms of servicing characters and fans? Definitely. In terms of delivering quality films? I love the first Avengers and Guardians, but I still prefer FC, DOFP, and Logan. So agree to disagree.

 

[DACrowe]

Inferior comic era? What are people watching?

In the past 10 years we have had

The Dark Knight
Hellboy 2
Iron Man
Kick-Ass
Scott Pilgrim
X-Men First Class
Dredd
The Avengers
GOTG
Snowpiercer
DOFP
Kingsmen
Deadpool
Civil War
Wonder Woman
Logan

Plus plenty more.

If that ain't quality or variety for ya then something else is going on. This has been a golden era for comic films of every type.

I don't think we are in an inferior era. The worse movies are not as bad as the worse movies of 10-15 years ago in CBMs, for instance. Obviously.

But I think we are in a hegemonic era where all superhero movies are increasingly straining to look the same, and fans want that. As Marvel Studios takes over the Fox properties, and WB continues to half-assedly try to replicate what Marvel is doing, it looks like the only person who might be making original outside-the-Feige-formula-box superhero movies in a few years' time will be Patty Jenkins. Another way to put it is I don't see WB making The Dark Knight now or even someone like Favreau being allowed to hire such a star presence like Robert Downey Jr. as the superhero, who by the definition of his talent was allowed to rewrite Tony Stark in his own image.

That is disheartening for those of us who don't want all superhero movies to look the same. Yet that is exactly what many fans seem to want.

 

[X-Maniac]

That is disheartening for those of us who don't want all superhero movies to look the same. Yet that is exactly what many fans seem to want.

I don't think fans do want them to look the same.

They want the characters treated respectfully.

Fox has been unwilling, or unable, to service all the characters properly - many end up virtually mute. A studio cannot seriously think it can do that to characters with a big following/fanbase/history and that people will be okay with it.

People are worried that - aside from an obviously larger role for Jean Grey - we will get more of the same in Dark Phoenix.

Would it be okay for Loki to be shown as a founder member and leader of the Avengers, or for Voldemort to be the head of Hogwarts? No. At least not in the first films that established the mythology. And yet Fox thinks it's fine for Mystique to be a founder member and leader of the X-Men. Clearly that's not going to go down too well.

 

[def28]

I don't think we are in an inferior era. The worse movies are not as bad as the worse movies of 10-15 years ago in CBMs, for instance. Obviously.

But I think we are in a hegemonic era where all superhero movies are increasingly straining to look the same, and fans want that. As Marvel Studios takes over the Fox properties, and WB continues to half-assedly try to replicate what Marvel is doing, it looks like the only person who might be making original outside-the-Feige-formula-box superhero movies in a few years' time will be Patty Jenkins. Another way to put it is I don't see WB making The Dark Knight now or even someone like Favreau being allowed to hire such a star presence like Robert Downey Jr. as the superhero, who by the definition of his talent was allowed to rewrite Tony Stark in his own image.

That is disheartening for those of us who don't want all superhero movies to look the same. Yet that is exactly what many fans seem to want.

I completely disagree. We have more versatile comic films now then we ever did, and yes Marvel does that too. GOTG, Iron Man, The Avengers and Winter Soldier are not the same exact film or in the same tone.

With just Fox alone having an R Rated Deadpool let alone a Deadpool film was something plenty of here turned their noses on. It was different, fresh and that's why it succeeded much like Iron Man, GOTG and The Avengers. Name me another film that comes close to Scott Pilgrim, Snowpiercer or a female led one like Wonder Woman. It's a pretty narrow minded view to act like these are all the same. DC made their own bed with their flops and their is nothing "Marvel" about something like MOS or BvS.

Your battle against Marvel is something you will just never win Crowe. If these movies were all as identical as you say then they would not be making money or getting the critical praise they do. Not preferring them is fine but I think it's time to just admit it's not your style instead of acting like all this is fact. It's not. Fans do not want the same films. They want the quality.

 

[psylockolussus]

We'll have to see once the deal crystallizes.

I can see Feige jettisoning the X-Men cast (like JLaw and Fassbender) for cost purposes... but then Disney is willing to shell out a LOT of money to keep major MCU actors in play like RDJ, ScarJo, Chris Hemsworth, and Chris Evans.

Jlaw and Fassbender aren't even huge draws for the Fox movies.

 

[X-Maniac]

Jlaw and Fassbender aren't even huge draws for the Fox movies.

The days of star power are gone. Tom Cruise didn't bring in massive box office for The Mummy.

And look at GoTG. Chris Pratt was an unknown, two of the other lead cast were CGI creations - a tree and a raccoon.

It's the concept that sells. And if it's well-executed, people will come.

 

[psylockolussus]

I can't wait for them to ditch the First Class cast/Apocalypse cast.

 

[Lip]

I don't think fans do want them to look the same.

They want the characters treated respectfully.

Some people can't stand the fact that we don't enjoy the treatment of 98% of the characters in this franchise, so they twist our words by saying we only care about costumes or all superhero movies looking the same, even tho we've been very, very clear about what we dislike. For me its just trolling now.

Fox no doubt did a fantastic job with Charles, Eric and Logan. But when you fail to give believable motivations for 90% of your supporting character and you struggle to give them lines or a personality... I don't think you have the best written CBM franchise.

Time to move on.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I read up on Cassandra Nova’s bio *if that’s who Chastain actually turns out to be. If the twist is that she is Nova it’ll make the most sense as to why she wants to “hurt” Charles by using/manipulating his prize pupil Jean, if Mystique does die I think Nova would play a part in it(through Jean) to kill her out of jealousy that the life Raven (had with Charles) was meant for her. In the Comics Nova played a part in Genosha’s genocide, so maybe she uses Jean to destroy the island and countless mutants. Nova’s whole mission is to ruin Xavier, tarnish the X-Mens reputation while having another agenda that involves using Dark Phoenix.

Charles is known for keeping secrets so I can see him locking Cassandra away on the astral plane because of her violent psyonic energy/thoughts, as teens (wiping his mother’s mind free of her existence and replaced them with memories of Raven) thus destroying her body in the process but her consciousness survived after the battle with Apocalypse she escaped and spent he last 9 years rebuilding her mind and body and studying her new powers.

Just my thoughts.

All that's well and good (I like the part where the Raven retcon from First Class is finally tackled) but then again this scenario has Charles locking someone's powers away. Again. Makes this Charles such a chump. Always regressing to the previous iteration. It's like he never learns his lesson.