BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 13

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LMAO, I'll give you that. But come on, you really really don't think that the fact that Batman's in the mix and the public still has the Nolan films fresh in their minds, not to mention this is practically the most monumental Superhero film ever will pretty much guarantee at least a $ billion?
 
Oh God, stop talking, all of you. :o
 
I don't think he has the worst. In DC that honor goes to Flash's posse of baddies.

Not really, the problem with Flash's rogues is that they're kind of ridiculous (Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Gorilla Grodd, to name a few), but at least, he has a few, some not even that!
 
When I'm talking about Superman's rogue gallery, I'm comparing it to star power of the hero.


Superman - the original DC Superhero. 75 years old this year. Until the late 80s, THE flagship character for DC. Even now, people all over the world would recognise the S symbol, practically as much as the cross for Christianity.


This is a character more recognised than Batman, Spider-man, The X-Men.., even The Avengers!


Now compare Superman's rogue gallery to any of theirs - not quite the same standard is it?


Take away 5 of Batman or Spider-mans top rogues - still plenty left over.


Take away Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday and Zod. The best we're left with Bizarro, Parasite, Metallo and Toymaker. THATS a challenge for Superman, isn't it?
 
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Not really, the problem with Flash's rogues is that they're kind of ridiculous (Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Gorilla Grodd, to name a few), but at least, he has a few, some not even that!
That's where the camp comes in for me. I'll be very curious to see if any of his rogues are brought in on Arrow. It will be interesting to see how they handle them.

Though you bring up a good point about MM. I can't think of one of his rogues and Wondy's gallery isn't so hot either. The only thing she really has going for her is an entire pantheon of Greek gods.
 
Now compare Superman's rogue gallery to any of theirs - not quite the same standard is it?
He arguably has the most famous rogue of any comic hero...Lex Luthor, who is just a standard fare human. Some may say the Joker for Batman, but I'd say they are neck and neck with Lex taking the edge.

I do agree there needs to be some sort of global event for this movie, but I don't see Doomsday as the one capable of organizing this. He's a tool...in more ways then one.
 
Take away 5 of Batman or Spider-mans top rogues - still plenty left over.


Take away Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday and Zod. The best we're left with Bizarro, Parasite, Metallo and Toymaker. THATS a challenge for Superman, isn't it?

... yes, it is. You've got:

1: A demented clone of superman.

2: A ruthless mob hitman turned cyborg with a radioactive core, more than enough strength to beat Superman to death, and the ability to more his cybernetic parts into any machine he wants.

3: A mass murdering adrenalin junkie psychopath who literally sucks the life out of people and only gets stronger every time Superman hits him.

4: Toyman, a creepy stone cold killer who has a ****ed up obsession with "protecting children's innocence" and a dangerously black and white moral code who's also a super genius who can create deadly machines that are more than a match for the man of steel.

How are they any less engaging or formidable than Spider-Man's second tier bad guys?
 
New topic post, explanation time. In my previous post, I suggested the following...

What if Flash, WW and Batman, etc. Are all aware of each other, and have decided to come to Metropolis to stop the threat of a 'Superman', a being who can kill people with his bare hands, and who's race tried to destroy the world?

What if Superman has to prove himself to these 'heroes', especially to the one who is most distrustful (and most human)?

What if eventually the need for Superman is established by the emergence of a new villain, that only he can stop?


That all sounds good, but it doesn't sound like Batman VS Superman, more JL vs Superman. And the focus on Superman is not there.


Then again, it could be.


In order for my idea to work, I'm gonna make 4 assumptions.

1. The film makers will deny that the JL are in this film, or will say 'it is NOT the Justice League' instead.

2. Even though WW (and possibly the Flash) will be in this film, they will not 'look' as their comic counterparts (will be explained).

3. There will be one 'origin' in this film, but it will not involve any of the heroes mentioned.

4. Goyer has said Superman was the 1st superhero, everybody else follows. But Batman is a grizzled veteran. So maybe Superman is the first 'public' superhero, that exposes the hidden world?


So, how does this film become BvS, a MOS sequel with a focus on Superman?


A. Following on from MOS, Batman views the so-called Superman a threat - an alien being capable of mass destruction, who's race tried to destroy the Earth, and has also killed? On top of that, this 'Superman' has gone public, showing himself to the world. This alien must be stopped.

2. Batman has a team/associates who will help take down Superman - WW and the Flash. However, they work by being covert / undercover, wearing clothes to match (Batman would be the same, there would be no Scarlet Speedster, just black, and WW? Think Donna Troy).

Batman with a team - NOT the JL.

A covert team, of outcasts.

Of different people from everyone else.

A team of Outsiders.

3. Superman has to take on this team of heroes, earning their trust. At the same time, he has to argue about his philosophy of using his abilities (from MOS) - rather than helping the world in the shadows, SHOW the world who you are.

4. At the same time, we have the emergence of the true villain - (Doomsday) something unstoppable. Something that will destroy us all.

Something that can only be stopped by a Superman....





Yes, it's cheesy. But that's a storyline that could fit all these characters/plot points.
 
The Flash's Rogues are great. :huh:
The Flash has the worst rogues gallery ive ever seen. It's horrible and embarassing. And im a fan of Flash.

Superman has terrible rogues too but there's about a half a dozen that are very strong. Which to be honest here, you cant really say that about most superheroes.

Batman and Spider-Man will always have the greatest rogues, in that order. Superman has a lot better than most ive seen.
 
Cyborg has the worst villains in DC. He is also the worst character in DC, funny how that works.
 
I will burn this thread TO THE GROUND.
 
With all the talk about Vandal Savage. Is it too early in the DC Universe to establish the Secret Society?

Luthor
Vandal Savage
Deathstroke
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Take away Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Darkseid, Doomsday and Zod. The best we're left with Bizarro, Parasite, Metallo and Toymaker. THATS a challenge for Superman, isn't it?

Well, that's five GREAT villains with amazing potential.

Even the second stringers are some very interesting and compelling villains in their own right. Bizzaro, Parasite and Metallo are all credible threats with interesting backstories. And Toyman is definitely nothing to sneeze at, especially the more modern versions of the character.

There's also:
Intergang, Mxyzptlk, Mongul, Silver Banshee, Maxima, The Prankster, Eradicator, Hank Henshaw (Cyborg Superman), Livewire, Lobo and Ultra Humanite.

Superman has fantastic rogues. He probably has some of the best and most interesting and unique villains in comics.
 
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Well, that's five GREAT villains with amazing potential.

Even the second stringers are some very interesting and compelling villains in their own right. Toyman is nothing to sneeze at.

There's also:
Intergang, Mxyzptlk, Mongul, Silver Banshee, Maxima, The Prankster, Eradicator, Hank Henshaw (Cyborg Superman), Livewire, Lobo and Ultra Humanite.

Superman has fantastic rogues. He probably has some of the best and most interesting and unique villains in comics.

I agree it's a good gallery of villains could do with a few more though if I'm honest.
 
It's sad there's almost nobody in Wonder Woman's rogue gallery on the iconic level of Superman/Batman villains. Circe, Ares, Giganta? no. Cheetah? EH. But not anywhere like Lex or Joker.
 
It's sad there's almost nobody in Wonder Woman's rogue gallery on the iconic level of Superman/Batman villains. Circe, Ares, Giganta? no. Cheetah? EH. But not anywhere like Lex or Joker.

Wonder Woman's enemies are great. Wonder Woman gets ignored by everybody.
 
Wonder Woman is amazing. And she does have cool villains. Sure, they don't have the status as Batmans or Supermans, but they aren't any less cool.
 
It's sad there's almost nobody in Wonder Woman's rogue gallery on the iconic level of Superman/Batman villains. Circe, Ares, Giganta? no. Cheetah? EH. But not anywhere like Lex or Joker.

After Azarello's run Diana has the entire Greek pantheon as incredible villains.

Apollo, Hermes, Hera, Hades, Poseidon, Strife (Eris).

Azarello's WW run basically saved the character IMO. Before the New 52 she'd basically become a support character for the Justice League stories.
 
To change the pace of things here. Apparently Hawkman might be in BvS according to El Mayimbe.

I think he's suggesting that's the role Mimosa is auditioning for.
 
To change the pace of things here. Apparently Hawkman might be in BvS according to El Mayimbe.

I think he's suggesting that's the role Mimosa is auditioning for.
Interesting...

Somebody manip some Mimosa Hawkman pics right away. :cwink:
 
To change the pace of things here. Apparently Hawkman might be in BvS according to El Mayimbe.

I think he's suggesting that's the role Mimosa is auditioning for.

Oh, boy. Time for more complaints from everyone.

"So dis iz da Justice League I guessss!!!!"
 
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