BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

[MrsKent26]

Lasso is badass to me

All right. Those do look kinda cool. Maybe just leave out the truth thing.

And doesn't WW have a sword sometimes? That could be her weapon.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Hmm, that doesn't sound familiar. Don't think I've seen those.

Dear Zod... Watch them. Watch them now (or at your convienience), because they do justice to Diana as a powerful warrior and they make the lasso look good to.

 

[MrsKent26]

I'll look into them.

 

[Wise]

Well for one thing I think having out and out Harry Potter styles "magic" without the Marvel styled Asimov explanation is a way to give the DCCU an edge over the competition. "Hey, we know the comic book super hero genre has always been a grab bag, mixed stew genre. We aint gonna shy away from that."

Not to mention that the Trinity has in it the representation of the 3 basic flavors of superheroes. Fantasy Sci-Fi, Myth/Magic and swashbuckler. Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. I don't really think there has to be a big "Nolanizing" for Diana.

Do you mean Arthur C Clarke?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Do you mean Arthur C Clarke?

I had a brain fart. Yes oh WISE one. That's what I meant.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'll look into them.

Does this make me Gary Oldman? (I'll give you a second to think about it.)

 

[charl_huntress]

Like I've said before The gods, monsters, and magic in the Wonder Woman portion of the MOS universe should be more like Constantine and less like Percy Jackson.

I had forgotten how well that was done in that movie. That was one of the true highlights because it really didn't feel mystical at all.

By the way Smash...that first gif of Wondy in Crisis...I think you convinced me on the whip. That is some bad ish right there...t:

 

[MrsKent26]

Does this make me Gary Oldman? (I'll give you a second to think about it.)

Aw man. I feel like I should get it, but I can't! It's gotta be a bat trilogy reference.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Aw man. I feel like I should get it, but I can't! It's gotta be a bat trilogy reference.

End of Begins Joker card moment.

 

[MrsKent26]

Ah. At least I was close. I thought it was something from BB.

 

[Bathead]

I don't see why the Lasso couldn't work as is, especially given that it's a universe where you can put an entire race's genetic code into a baby within seconds; a universe that probably has rings that channel 'willpower'; a universe with aliens that can read minds.

Why is it that once you use the word 'god' instead of alien, it's all of a sudden too 'out-there'. It's just a different name for an extraordinary species.

but whatever, I'd be fine with them Nolanizing it.

Perhaps they'll use the lasso to get the truth out of someone in a more 'traditional' way-- by causing them pain. I think it could be a funny nod.

There's an old quote from the great Sci-Fi author Arthur C. Clarke -
" Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic to the uneducated."
Anything such as magic and gods in the DC universe could be easily be assumed to be such, and it's at least as believable as any of the pseudo-science already extant in MOS. There is NO reason to assume that magic is any less believable than anything we've seen so far in just the one movie. Let's stop trying to change everything from the comics in some nebulous pursuit of verisimilitude. Leave the Lasso of Truth alone, it's as much a part of WW's mythology as Batman's batarangs are a part of his world, and Superman's invulnerable super-suit is a part of his. This conceit of trying to shoehorn realism into an inherently unrealistic genre is getting tired. Within the context of these fictional character's world, all this stuff is perfectly believable.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

There's an old quote from the great Sci-Fi author Arthur C. Clarke -
" Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic to the uneducated."
Anything such as magic and gods in the DC universe could be easily be assumed to be such, and it's at least as believable as any of the pseudo-science already extant in MOS. There is NO reason to assume that magic is any less believable than anything we've seen so far in just the one movie.

My only problem with the whole Marvel adaptation of Clarke's idea is that in the end it would make no difference to the story they told using Thor. Great, it's an advanced science. Uh... except they never even once tried to give a scientific or even pseudo-scientific explanation about the "Tech" of Asgard except for perhaps the Bifrost which came across ass some kind of wormhole device. Everything else, especially Loki's abilities comes across like classic fictional magic.

 

[Bathead]

My only problem with the whole Marvel adaptation of Clarke's idea is that in the end it would make no difference to the story they told using Thor. Great, it's an advanced science. Uh... except they never even once tried to give a scientific or even pseudo-scientific explanation about the "Tech" of Asgard except for perhaps the Bifrost which came across ass some kind of wormhole device. Everything else, especially Loki's abilities comes across like classic fictional magic.

Yeah, so what? Never mind about Marvel or the Avengers, anyway, we're talking about DC and it's universe, in which magic has played a major part from the very beginning. Why does there even have to be any explanation for magic at all? Why is magic any less believable than laser beams shooting out of someone's eyes? (which I am pretty sure is scientifically impossible, or at the very least as improbable as magic.)

 

[jmc]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I'm gonna post it anyways. I think the lasso of truth is stupid. I kinda hope they don't use it. But I will admit that if anyone can make such a geeky thing cool, it's Snyder.

As much as I love the character, I've got to agree with this. I've never been able to imagine the whole wrapping someone up in rope and forcing them to tell the truth working in live action, in fact I feel as if it's never really worked in general. If it's just a standard lasso that's another thing, just a conventional too maybe made unbreakable, but the whole telling the truth thing its kinda cheesy.

 

[MrsKent26]

There's an old quote from the great Sci-Fi author Arthur C. Clarke -
" Any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic to the uneducated."
Anything such as magic and gods in the DC universe could be easily be assumed to be such, and it's at least as believable as any of the pseudo-science already extant in MOS. There is NO reason to assume that magic is any less believable than anything we've seen so far in just the one movie. Let's stop trying to change everything from the comics in some nebulous pursuit of verisimilitude. Leave the Lasso of Truth alone, it's as much a part of WW's mythology as Batman's batarangs are a part of his world, and Superman's invulnerable super-suit is a part of his. This conceit of trying to shoehorn realism into an inherently unrealistic genre is getting tired. Within the context of these fictional character's world, all this stuff is perfectly believable.

While I like that quote, I don't think it applies to WW's lasso very well. I believe that there are magical things that could be treated in such a way that they seem like science. But a lasso that gets the truth out of people could never be scientific unless it was used to inflict pain whilst WW demanded the truth. Science can only be twisted so far. It's not the same as a batarang.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah, so what? Never mind about the Avengers, why does there even have to be any explanation for magic at all? Why is magic any less believable than lazer beams shooting out of someone's eyes? (which I am pretty sure is scientifically impossible, or at least as improbable as magic.)

Are we arguing? Because that is exactly how I feel. I don't want an explanation for WW/Thor's magical worlds. I just want them to drop that bombshell on the world and then we move on with their adventures. "I am an Amazon empowered by the gods worshipped by the ancient Greeks. My bracelets are made from the shield of Zeus and my lasso, which can compel someone to tell the truth is made from the girdle of Gaea." I don't see to big of a disagreement tween us.

 

[jmc]

Yeah, so what? Never mind about Marvel or the Avengers, anyway, we're talking about DC and it's universe, in which magic has played a major part from the very beginning. Why does there even have to be any explanation for magic at all? Why is magic any less believable than laser beams shooting out of someone's eyes? (which I am pretty sure is scientifically impossible, or at the very least as improbable as magic.)

Remember this is a direct sequel, it's not a WW story, she's going to have to fit into place, the world can't just accommodate magic, it's existence has to make sense and stay within the rules of the previous film. Marvel's world has always been neutral in comparison, pretty much anything can go in that universe and little explanation given because ultimately that's the world they've created. Man of Steel has set itself up as a Sci-fi world, that's the mold you've got to build everything off of.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

The Marvel guys were far too inconsistent with their construal of Thor's origin. They first endeavored to have us think he is, indeed, of divine origin, i.e., a god who is perceived by largely secular humans (in modern times) as an alien of sorts. In Avengers, he was referred to as a demigod, which would imply that one of his parents was not of divine origin (when we already know this not to be the case). In the silly S.H.I.E.L.D series that no one really watches, they sort of go back and forth between god and alien. Then in Thor: TDW, Odin claims the Asgardians are "not gods" at all -- they are just long-lived humans. Ridiculous.

WW audiences should not have to go through such nonsense.

 

[Smashlilman]

I had forgotten how well that was done in that movie. That was one of the true highlights because it really didn't feel mystical at all.

By the way Smash...that first gif of Wondy in Crisis...I think you convinced me on the whip. That is some bad ish right there...t:

Here are 2 more of here using her Lasso.

 

[MrsKent26]

Remember this is a direct sequel, it's not a WW story, she's going to have to fit into place, the world can't just accommodate magic, it's existence has to make sense and stay within the rules of the previous film. Marvel's world has always been neutral in comparison, pretty much anything can go in that universe and little explanation given because ultimately that's the world they've created. Man of Steel has set itself up as a Sci-fi world, that's the mold you've got to build everything off of.

I concur. This is why I wonder how they're going to work WW into the mos universe. Obviously, they've found a way since she's gonna be in the movie, but I can't imagine it just yet.

 

[jmc]

The Marvel guys were far too inconsistent with their construal of Thor's origin. They first endeavored to have us think he is, indeed, of divine origin, i.e., a god who is perceived by largely secular humans (in modern times) as an alien of sorts. In Avengers, he was referred to as a demigod, which would imply that one of his parents was not of divine origin (when we already know this not to be the case). In the silly S.H.I.E.L.D series that no one really watches, they sort of go back and forth between god and alien. Then in Thor: TDW, Odin claims the Asgardians are ''not gods'' at all -- they are just long-lived humans. Ridiculous.

WW audiences should not have to go through such nonsense.

That's a fair comment actually. I remember during Thor 2 when Odin said that I raised an eyebrow. There is an inconsistency when it comes to Thor and how Marvel are trying to define what he actually is. I guess they've figured if they leave it a bit vague people can believe Asguardians to be whatever they want. It's not an ideal explanation, and it's a bit lazy on their part to be honest, but for now people seem to be just accepting it because frankly anything goes in the MCU.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's a fair comment actually. I remember during Thor 2 when Odin said that I raised an eyebrow. There is a of of inconsistency when it comes to Thor and how Marvel are trying to define what he actually is. I guess they've figured if they leave it a bit vague people can believe Asguardians to be whatever they want. It's not an ideal explanation, and it's a bit lazy on their part to be honest, but for now people seem to be just accepting it because frankly anything goes in the MCU.

Very true, and kind of sad.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Smash, you are the man with the lasso gifs!!


I think that they will just say she's empowered by mystical forces and leave it at that, actually. And it won't have a bit of a negative impact at all.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Remember this is a direct sequel, it's not a WW story, she's going to have to fit into place, the world can't just accommodate magic, it's existence has to make sense and stay within the rules of the previous film. Marvel's world has always been neutral in comparison, pretty much anything can go in that universe and little explanation given because ultimately that's the world they've created. Man of Steel has set itself up as a Sci-fi world, that's the mold you've got to build everything off of.

I have no problem with the universe starting more serious and sci-fi (and I use that term loosely, what with the red laser eyes, flying, and the english speaking aliens), and introducing more and more craziness in future movies.

We are getting 'willpower rings' after all and a guy who can talk to fish. (well...presumably they'll use these characters eventually).

What do you think Man of Steel would have had to been like for WW and the Gods to fit when they're introduced later?

 

[Smashlilman]

That's a fair comment actually. I remember during Thor 2 when Odin said that I raised an eyebrow. There is a of of inconsistency when it comes to Thor and how Marvel are trying to define what he actually is. I guess they've figured if they leave it a bit vague people can believe Asguardians to be whatever they want. It's not an ideal explanation, and it's a bit lazy on their part to be honest, but for now people seem to be just accepting it because frankly anything goes in the MCU.

It's a reflection of how they are viewed in the comics. In the Comics they are Gods (magic and all) that technically could be considered Aliens.