BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - Part 14

[charl_huntress]

Then WB will seriously think that people don't care a **** about these characters.
They will be unable to see that it's their fault, that they should have handled things much better.

They won't care though...IMO. If this fails then they will move on with other avenues. They always do. It's sad, which is why I hoped they would at least appoint someone to oversee the vision. I don't know Goyer enough, and I agree with others that he's unproven as a sure bet. This could be another Schumacher all over again...it really could be, but I'm trying to have a little faith it is not. If it is...then prepare for Huntress the Hater to return to the Hype. She is ready for that...believe me.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I agree...I do, which is why I am also worried. We know Bats and Supes will be alright, but they could potentially destroy everyone else for a long, long while. I'll give you that it could be a total cluster**** the likes of which will be talked about for years to come like BR and Schumacher debacle. It could be a mess, but it might also not be that bad. It's hard to say, and I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt even though they really don't effing deserve it. I think in this case Affleck would be the ONE person who would seriously think that **** over. He remembers DD. We ALL remember DD. He knows better...at least I think he does.

Affleck was disappointed in Daredevil but he always says how he loved that story and was disappointed how it turned out.

 

[super-t]

They won't care though...IMO. If this fails then they will move on with other avenues. They always do. It's sad, which is why I hoped they would at least appoint someone to oversee the vision. I don't know Goyer enough, and I agree with others that he's unproven as a sure bet. This could be another Schumacher all over again...it really could be, but I'm trying to have a little faith it is not. If it is...then prepare for Huntress the Hater to return to the Hype. She is ready for that...believe me.

I don't think it will be SCHUMACHER bad lol but it does have it's risks. I don't think Synder and Goyer would be apart of it if WB went that direction again. I think Goyer learned his lesson with campy from Blade 3.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

We have to take into consideration that Affleck has not read the script yet. Just because a concept sounds cool when someone pitches it with all the enthusiasm that Snyder has during a conversation, and just because Zack shows Kevin Smith a super cool looking suit...doesn't mean that the script is automatically good. The screenplay could be atrocious. The acting/delivery of said screenplay could be equally horrible. The direction and pacing could be awful. We just dont know.

Never take an actors word before their film comes out and dont take their word for it the month of its release during presstime.

Just recently Andrew Garfield was talking smack about the first Spidey from last year. Saying they couldnt tell a proper story for Spider-Man because they had to keep making all kinds of people happy because they had to get the rebooted origin right.

NEVER trust an actor unless theyre going into the details of the film and saying things that aren't so general.

Goyer isn't done writing it?

 

[MrsKent26]

Goyer isn't done writing it?

It certainly doesn't seem like it's done. Amy Adams says she hasn't read it either.

 

[Krumm]

We have to take into consideration that Affleck has not read the script yet. Just because a concept sounds cool when someone pitches it with all the enthusiasm that Snyder has during a conversation, and just because Zack shows Kevin Smith a super cool looking suit...doesn't mean that the script is automatically good. The screenplay could be atrocious. The acting/delivery of said screenplay could be equally horrible. The direction and pacing could be awful. We just dont know.

Never take an actors word before their film comes out and dont take their word for it the month of its release during presstime.

Just recently Andrew Garfield was talking smack about the first Spidey from last year. Saying they couldnt tell a proper story for Spider-Man because they had to keep making all kinds of people happy because they had to get the rebooted origin right.

NEVER trust an actor unless theyre going into the details of the film and saying things that aren't so general.

It's not what he's saying, it's what he's doing.

 

[mad-sci]

Please. Plenty of people were speculating about Bane.

In the immortal words of Arnie in Commando....

B@LLSH$T!


I will agree to disagree with you all on many topics, but this piece of revisionist history crap - No, not happening.

In hindsight, it was obvious Hardy was playing Bane.


But Bane was NOT on anybody's radar at the time. Based on a Hardy performances in Bronson, Rock N Rolla, Snatch and Inception, his shortness and ethnicity, EVERYBODY was convinced Hardy was playing either Black Mask or Hugo Strange.

Even polls had Bane as a low option. People were more obsessed of Hardy's charm and charisma, along with his facial hair, rather than his dedication to a performance.

 

[charl_huntress]

Affleck was disappointed in Daredevil but he always says how he loved that story and was disappointed how it turned out.

There's a recent interview somewhere on the Hype where he pretty much says it was a failure. My point is Affleck knows of the **** storm that will occur if he fails at Batman. He has to know this. He has to.

I don't think it will be SCHUMACHER bad lol but it does have it's risks. I don't think Synder and Goyer would be apart of it if WB went that direction again. I think Goyer learned his lesson with campy from Blade 3.

Writers sometimes never really learn their lessons. Sometimes they just get better at doing the bad **** over and over (see Stephen King).

 

[Fallen Angel]

Goyer isn't done writing it?

No one has read a final version bar Goyer/Snyder. Affleck would've had an earlier version to read as they wanted him probably to see what he's getting himself into.

 

[shauner111]

What Affleck says about Daredevil is a good point. He liked the story but didnt like how it turned out. I dont think Snyder can mess this up that hard, but there's always a chance that his pitch to Ben was beyond exciting. Then the script + final product is rubbish. It happens.

Yeah. Amy hasn't read the script and had no idea about Wonder Woman. And i do believe her. So the script should be done shortly.

In the immortal words of Arnie in Commando....

B@LLSH$T!


I will agree to disagree with you all on many topics, but this piece of revisionist history crap - No, not happening.

In hindsight, it was obvious Hardy was playing Bane.


But Bane was NOT on anybody's radar at the time. Based on a Hardy performances in Bronson, Rock N Rolla, Snatch and Inception, his shortness and ethnicity, EVERYBODY was convinced Hardy was playing either Black Mask or Hugo Strange.

Even polls had Bane as a low option. People were more obsessed of Hardy's charm and charisma, along with his facial hair, rather than his dedication to a performance.

It was sarcasm. Trust me.

 

[mad-sci]

As flawed as his writing may be, and as polarising Snyder is, at least the film makers for DC take a chance. Hit or miss, at least Goyer is going for a new approach.


Compare that to the Marvel Universe - you get the feeling that although it's successful, it's played so safe with no risks. Apart from Iron Man 1, each film has been engineered as parts of a machine, designed to fit a certain role.
Look at the caliber of actors and directors who've taken part and left, leaving little impact. Worse still, you have one of THE most creative talents in charge of the biggest franchise Marvel has, but when compared to Whedon own work (beyond the action and scifi), it feels like Marvel has placed him in Windows Safety mode - serviceable and functioning, but not the best. Here's hoping Age of Ultron is Whedon unleashed.

 

[shauner111]

As flawed as his writing may be, and as polarising Snyder is, at least the film makers for DC take a chance. Hit or miss, at least Goyer is going for a new approach.


Compare that to the Marvel Universe - you get the feeling that although it's successful, it's played so safe with no risks. Apart from Iron Man 1, each film has been engineered as parts of a machine, designed to fit a certain role.
Look at the caliber of actors and directors who've taken part and left, leaving little impact. Worse still, you have one of THE most creative talents in charge of the biggest franchise Marvel has, but when compared to Whedon own work (beyond the action and scifi), it feels like Marvel has placed him in Windows Safety mode - serviceable and functioning, but not the best. Here's hoping Age of Ultron is Whedon unleashed.

Whedon unleashed? God help me then. He'll always be one of the most overrated talents to me.

 

[MrsKent26]

I don't think Marvel will change. They have a formula now. And people go see Marvel movies automatically at this point, whether they're good or not. They are geniuses when it comes to selling things.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I love it when people say Marvel Studios took no risks besides Iron Man 1. So there are no risks to make a Captain America, Thor, Hulk, and Avengers movie?

If there are no risks for them; there should be no risks for a Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Justice League movie. So I ask, why hasn't WB greenlight those 4 films if there are no risks?

 

[Krumm]

What Affleck says about Daredevil is a good point. He liked the story but didnt like how it turned out. I dont think Snyder can mess this up that hard, but there's always a chance that his pitch to Ben was beyond exciting. Then the script + final product is rubbish. It happens.

Yeah. Amy hasn't read the script and had no idea about Wonder Woman. And i do believe her. So the script should be done shortly.

But Affleck was doing DD for his career at that point. Right now, he doesn't need Batman, though I'm sure the fan in him does. Snyder and Goyer need him more than he needs them so he will have more pull now than with DD. Hell, he could walk if he doesn't like how the script turns out. After all, WB has a lot of stock in Affleck so there's is no doubt they are going to be careful with him.

We can't compare the choices he made 10 years ago to now. It's apples and oranges. And notice I said choices, not words.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Yeah. I don't want to diss both Pixar and Marvel-and Disney by extension (okay, don't mind that part), but you get the feeling that everything's pre-planned and that they really haven't gone all out in terms of boldness with ideas (since Wall-E for Pixar, anyway, and IM1 is pretty straight-laced in comparison to much of the new Marvel films)

 

[MrsKent26]

I love it when people say Marvel Studios took no risks besides Iron Man 1. So there are no risks to make a Captain America, Thor, Hulk, and Avengers movie?

If there are no risks for them; there should be no risks for a Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Justice League movie. So I ask, why hasn't WB greenlight those 4 films if there are no risks?

Because DC and Marvel are seen differently now, after Nolan's Batfilms. People expect simple, fun movies from Marvel. People expect more from DC. People expect something deeper, which is harder to be successful with than a "fun" movie. Dramas are judged harder than adventure/action films.

If WB churns out some cheesy Flash movies or whatever, don't you think people will tear them apart?

 

[mad-sci]

Marvel is successful, making money. But where is the full use of the creative talent used?

Kenneth Branagh, a brilliant Director - utterly wasted on Thor.

Actors like Jeff Bridges and Mickey Rourke, either before or after Oscar level performances - forgettable as villains.


What is the point of getting top quality talent, but not using them to their best ability?

Compare the characters in the FILMS Serenity and The Avengers. Even if you have never watched the TV series, the characters in Whedons own work feel more creative than those with Marvel. You feel that ANYTHING can happen in Serenity (and does), but not with the Avengers.

5 years from now, I doubt the individual MCU films will have the same level of playability.

 

[charl_huntress]

We can't compare the choices he made 10 years ago to now. It's apples and oranges. And notice I said choices, not words.

I actually think we can compare those choices because at this point he is in a different point in his life and career. He doesn't need this...IMO, and it could be a far worse disaster for him at this point then DD ever was. He has the experience now to know this, so I think we can compare those choices and why he's making them.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Because DC and Marvel are seen differently now, after Nolan's Batfilms. People expect simple, fun movies from Marvel. People expect more from DC. People expect something deeper, which is harder to be successful with than a "fun" movie. Dramas are judged harder than adventure/action films.

And that's what's wrong with WB. Doing DC films like Nolan's Batfilms. Hollywood has been rebooting franchises and using Nolan's Batman Begins for 8 years with franchises. Why has none of these franchises been gone? Because Batman Begins was perfect and worked for Batman. It doesn't work for Superman or Spider-Man.

Nolan looked at the comics and had a tone like the Batman comics and used them for the film. Batman is a darker character than the Iron Man or Cap or Thor in the MCU. Hulk maybe need as dark.

In the comics Batman fights mobsters, Ninjas, doctors, and serial killers and we got all of that in Batman Begins.

My point is one thing I dislike about Man of Steel is they wrote Superman like Batman instead of writing Superman like Superman.

Flash doesn't need to have a dark and gritty film. In fact Flash's films should have a tone like the Raimi Spider-Man films.

WB thinks they should make every character like Batman when that's not the way to go at it.

 

[charl_huntress]

5 years from now, I doubt the individual MCU films will have the same level of playability.

Wow...well said...well said. I'll say this will exclude IM1, which for RDJ alone will still be watchable.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Because DC and Marvel are seen differently now, after Nolan's Batfilms. People expect simple, fun movies from Marvel. People expect more from DC. People expect something deeper, which is harder to be successful with than a "fun" movie. Dramas are judged harder than adventure/action films.

If WB churns out some cheesy Flash movies or whatever, don't you think people will tear them apart?

It's the now age old double standard. If it's lighthearted they're just copying Marvel, if it's serious then it isn't fun enough.

But how about both. I say a Brad-Bird helmed DC film would be both fun AND deep but with an underlying sense of seriousness. I think he's meant to do the Flash, though I think him doing a Superman or even Captain Marvel movie would be epic.

 

[Krumm]

I actually think we can compare those choices because at this point he is in a different point in his life and career. He doesn't need this...IMO, and it could be a far worse disaster for him at this point then DD ever was. He has the experience now to know this, so I think we can compare those choices and why he's making them.

Well you're applying more critical thinking to it so I would say it's compare and contrast, more importantly, but that's just semantics. The point being, 10 years vs. today is not a 1:1 comparison.

 

[charl_huntress]

Well you're applying more critical thinking to it so I would say it's compare and contrast, more importantly, but that's just semantics. The point being, 10 years vs. today is not a 1:1 comparison.

He's the one component that doesn't change though...but I see what you're saying. I guess my point is he was at a different stage when DD was made. At this point he doesn't need the money or hassle from this (he's also at a different perspective as a well known director/writer himself who is now proven and not just a one note fluke), but he's still doing it. LOL...this might all be hubris coming back to bite him in the ass, but I do respect he at least understands the responsibility of screwing this up after his experience with DD.

 

[Herolee10]

It's the now age old double standard. If it's lighthearted they're just copying Marvel, if it's serious then it isn't fun enough.

But how about both. I say a Brad-Bird helmed DC film would be both fun AND deep but with an underlying sense of seriousness. I think he's meant to do the Flash, though I think him doing a Superman or even Captain Marvel movie would be epic.

Imagine if Brad Bird was selected to helm the actual Justice League film. The guy's proven that he's great at making ensemble films: Mission Impossible 4 and the Incredibles.