BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[DA_Champion]

So I guess hoping that Lois Lane (the ACTUAL female lead of the Superman franchise) gets any of the development she deserves in this movie is just a waste of time at this point. Clearly, she's not a priority at all to these people.

Honestly, I love Amy Adams. But she's way too good for this. She's going to be possibly be a double Oscar nominee this year (Lead for American Hustle and Supporting for Her). She deserves better than this. How freaking rude to her to have these notices going up about a "new female lead." SHE was supposed to be the female lead. She was hired to a Superman franchise to be the female lead. And then she got Batman thrown in the sequel. And now this? Another woman taking her place? Forget it. She's too good for this.

You know, I adore Wonder Woman. I'd love to see an actual Wonder Woman movie. But at this point....she just doesn't belong in a Superman movie. It was bad enough Batman was going to be in this movie. It is going to be virtually impossible to actually build the Superman world if Wonder Woman is present. She will steal focus and attention even more from the actual narrative that they should have been telling. I don't want her in the film. I'm not interested in her in the film. And I don't believe this is the right way to introduce Wonder woman And I love Wonder Woman. So that really sucks.

If it's Diana in the movie...that's it for me. I'm out.

You're totally right and it's why I've been angry about this BvS film since the beginning. Build the characters, not the bloody "mythology", the stupid codex, etc.

The female characters of note should be Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Martha Kent, Mercy Tessmacher, Kara Zor-El, approximately. Not Wonder Woman, not Zatanna, not Talia Al-Ghul. Meanwhile, the male characters (aside from Clark) should be Pete Ross, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Jonathan Kent, Lex Luthor, approximately... not Batman, Flash, Green Arrow, etc. If you think about it, it might have been decades since Kevin Costner has played a role as inconsequential as that of Jonathan Kent... did he even have 2 minutes of screen time?

They're basically turning Superman into Wolverine, where Superman leads the Justice League the way Wolverine "leads" the X-Men. Honestly, it's not that interesting to me, it comes off as bad fan fiction. When I was nine years old, what I would write for creative writing in English class would be crossovers between power rangers, Zelda, and Star Wars, and that informs what I think of these "team-up" movies.

And I really agree with you about Amy Adams. She is one of the great actresses of our time. If WB has the opportunity to use her as Lois Lane, she should be getting incredible screen time and plot involvement. I just saw The Fighter earlier this week, she was so amazing in that movie, so sexy without it being gratuitous, she had more agency and more character and more genuine plot involvement and was more romantic than Lois Lane was in MoS. It made me sad. I'd like to see a Lois Lane as awesome as Charlene Fleming... they have the actress to pull it off, but not the writer.

 

[Tec15]

Holy knee jerk jumping to conclusions Batman! Never change people, never change.

 

[DA_Champion]

Holy knee jerk jumping to conclusions Batman! Never change people, never change.

We know what the general direction of the franchise is: Batman in 2015, and very likely the JL in 2017. MoS II will thus come out in 2019, unless they instead make JL II.

They're going to focus on hero-hero interactions, which means fewer hero-human interactions. Those of us who are fans of the human supporting characters in these universes are likely to be disappointed.

 

[Dk1201]

Sigh a solo superman film in 2015 would of bombed sorry but against Avengers Star Wars etc if wouldn't of been successfull 2015 go big or go home and that is what DC is doing here personally I hope in 2017 we get SOLO superman batman and Wonder Woman films with the justice league movie in 2019

 

[InnerWarrior]

I'm not sure how they'll introduce Diana, but I still think this is referring to Kara as the tie-in comics featured her heavily and they showed that open capsule in Man of Steel. Plus having Kara would introduce some more character develop for Clark.

 

[Herolee10]

I'm not sure how they'll introduce Diana, but I still think this is referring to Kara as the tie-in comics featured her heavily and they showed that open capsule in Man of Steel. Plus having Kara would introduce some more character develop for Clark.

There's a few problems with that comic tie-in though. I mean, if that was Kara that left the ship, then assuming if she looks the same age as she did back then, which was over a few thousand years ago, does that mean that Kryptonians within the MOS world won't age after they reach a certain age?

And why hasn't she been discovered yet then since I doubt that she would be able to remain in seclusion for that long.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I would assume that, like the scout ship, Kara was buried in snow and ice, and her body preserved.

And its possible that her body could have been found by S.T.A.R. Labs (who was in charge of the dig in 'Man of Steel') not to far from where the scout ship was found.

How she could still be alive after all that could be chalked up to her abilities on earth.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

What does the tie-in matter? Remember when Superman was the first hero? Yeah that lasted all the way from June to July.

 

[CharlieS]

I would assume that, like the scout ship, Kara was buried in snow and ice, and her body preserved.

And its possible that her body could have been found by S.T.A.R. Labs (who was in charge of the dig in 'Man of Steel') not to far from where the scout ship was found.

How she could still be alive after all that could be chalked up to her abilities on earth.

Or they can simply adapt the Man of Steel prequel, and change some point of the story it doesn't need to be a direct adaptation.

 

[Loki882]

Lex could have found her, pretended to be the good and honorable guy, and then convinced her that Superman (and maybe Batman) are a threat. There's a fight, all three eventually realize that they have a common foe, and put their differences aside.

 

[CharlieS]

Lex could have found her, pretended to be the good and honorable guy, and then convinced her that Superman (and maybe Batman) are a threat. There's a fight, all three eventually realize that they have a common foe, and put their differences aside.

She could've lost her memory when her ship crashed on earth.

 

[roach]

Constantine is coming to TV? I wonder who's in the running for John.

Anyway....Superman vs Batman who has a love interest. Do we know the love interest is Diana? from the Casting Call, it seems they ask for someone just strong, surely if they were casting Diana, it would be more descripted....I don't know, like hair colour and build for example.

People are mixing up two different casting calls...there was one for a love interest for Bruce and this one for a strong lady.

 

[PacificBoy]

Lex could have found her, pretended to be the good and honorable guy, and then convinced her that Superman (and maybe Batman) are a threat. There's a fight, all three eventually realize that they have a common foe, and put their differences aside.

Sounds interesting but it'd probably work better in a serialized format like the DCAU. Kara would have to be built up as a sympathetic, semi-complex character amongst an already crowded cast -- and where the main character's arc is still halfway told.

 

[John-An]

 

[John-An]

 

[CharlieS]

Sounds interesting but it'd probably work better in a serialized format like the DCAU. Kara would have to be built up as a sympathetic, semi-complex character amongst an already crowded cast -- and where the main character's arc is still halfway told.

Maybe she's kept in a military base. The scientist in the movie was from the department of S.T.A.R. Labs. In the comics book that department is known to studying alien races.

 

[shallbecomeabat]

They're going to focus on hero-hero interactions, which means fewer hero-human interactions. Those of us who are fans of the human supporting characters in these universes are likely to be disappointed.

I know what you mean. That was one of the problems I had with the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited TV shows: not enough "normal" characters and almost no interaction with the secret identities and secret lifes of the heroes. They only talked to other heroes and were always in costume. I really hope the movies don't make that mistake. You need those "normal" interactions to ground the more fantastical stuff.
But to be honest... looking at the Dark Knight Trilogy and MoS, I don't think we really need to worry about it.

 

[DChero]

Wow! All that has really been confirmed is that Batman will be in the next movie and we're already acting as if we'll barely see any peripheral characters?

 

[G.Godfrey]

Wow! All that has really been confirmed is that Batman will be in the next movie and we're already acting as if we'll barely see any peripheral characters?

Yeah, this. There's still plenty of casting news to be had, I wouldn't draw any such conclusions just yet.

On the subject of Lois Lane, I never expected her to be anything more than a supporting character in this series either so I'm fine with it, even if it wouldn't be my approach (little was/is in these films anyway ) And I'm more concerned about the actual of quality of ''hero-hero'' interactions and the characterizations than a lack of ''human'' characters. I can get behind any approach or a mix of them - they can all work - if the material is good.

 

[Boy Scout]

Wow! All that has really been confirmed is that Batman will be in the next movie and we're already acting as if we'll barely see any peripheral characters?

If you keep reacting logically, people will soon realize that they have no excuse to keep typing essay-long posts about their favorite characters getting the shaft. Kindly cease and desist.

 

[CharlieS]

There is something i don't understand some people wanted a solo movie with Batman and a solo movie for Superman. All Batman's films have a dark tone except for the Schumacher's films. The goofy tone doesn't work for Batman we have the best example of this with the Schumacher's films.

If Superman begins to defeat every major enemies in solo films, they'll have to reboot Superman completely to make a JL. A World's Finest film is a smart choice. They can build a DCU without restarting from scratch.

Right now Superman didn't face Brainiac, Darkseid and Doomsday. MOS is successful it's the time now to launch the JL because Superman didn't face already his major enemies.

 

[CharlieS]

It's more difficult for Batman to be integrated in a group because of the dark tone of the Batman's films. It's another good reason to make a World's Finest right now.

 

[Herolee10]

On another note, I do hope that Snyder finds a way to do more practical effects whenever he shows Superman fighting.

I wasn't a fan of how many CGI doubles that they would use to show Superman fighting, despite how close the camera was since it definitely reminded me of the bad Matrix CGI double days.

Plus, I hope that this film gets WETA to do more, if not, most of their effects since I wasn't a fan of the effects created by double negative.

And I also hope that snyder doesn't choose to desaturate his film anymore either.

Heck, even though Iron Man can be cheated in action sequences by making him entirely CGI, there were a lot of great practical effects that they used for his sequences in Iron Man 3 that I was impressed with.

Not so much with MOS though, and they shouldn't rely entirely on Motion Capture suits either since it doesn't still blend well entirely with live actors. I still don't know why they didn't go about using a mixture of motion capture and practical suits for Shannon's Zod since the upper part of his armor, especially with that long neck cylinder would have benefited better from using something more practical on that portion.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Yeah. I do want to see more physical fighting. I think a limited use of wires would be cool, and practical fighting when they slow down, though I think superspeed should be CG.

 

[Jekecy]

I'd sooner place the blame on the vfx studio rather than the method. I would definitely pull for WETA or ILM to take on majority of the work this time, as Krypton was damn near flawless compared to the latter half.

We should always strive for practical photography, but there comes a point where it's just not time/cost effective, or even ideal. Snyder made a big deal over "shooting real" so I don't think it was for the lack of trying. By his own accord Superman's feats are a special effect anyway, so there's not much to be be done to do it justice via actual humans. Particularly in the Smallville fight, there were a handful of shots that would be outright impossible to pull of seamlessly with real actors.