BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 35

[Marvin]

I liked the flight in SR for the most part. Especially, during the plane scene. Also, the ending, outside of the CGI, in terms of showing that Superman can just fly around for the fun of it rather than it simply being used to get from Point A to Point B.

Wasn't that the point of the First flight.
Superman flying around for fun outside of that would have done wonders on the 'pacing issues' many seemed to have.

 

[Boom]

I legitimately died at this.

Well done, sir .

 

[Wooden Routh]

Yeah, pretty much. I still think Iron Man 1 has the best flying on film so far, even better than MOS. I terms of the actual shots and sequences.

The flight in "Iron Man" was definitely amazing. Made even moreso by Downey Jr's reactions.

He acted like I bet a lot of us would in the same situation.

 

[Lencho01]

That badly-rendered Routh I posted a few pages back was from the end.

And MOS definitely did the whole "flying is fun" thing a heckuva lot better.

I know where the pics are from.

Not to me.

Wasn't that the point of the First flight.
Superman flying around for fun outside of that would have done wonders on the 'pacing issues' many seemed to have.

More than just one or two face shots of him smiling. Like the act of flying didn't seem that much of a big deal with the way did it. Also, how quickly they did it. Like he just started and it was over in a blink of an eye. After that, it was just about getting from one place to another.

Maybe not fun in the "This is fun/awesome/whatever!!!" sense only. But, in a way that's kinda relaxing.

 

[Lencho01]

Yeah, pretty much. I still think Iron Man 1 has the best flying on film so far, even better than MOS. I terms of the actual shots and sequences.

Yeah, something like that. I would even throw in How to Train Your Dragon in there.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah, pretty much. I still think Iron Man 1 has the best flying on film so far, even better than MOS. I terms of the actual shots and sequences.

Like Spiderman, only more so, Ironman flight sequences can be designed with zero regard for hiding bad cgi. MOS will always have to work around cgi obstacles with the actor with no mask and cape...etc

I think snyder needs to embrace the use of sun kissed lighting and silhouette going forward. Opens things up.

 

[Wooden Routh]

I know where the pics are from.

Not to me.



More than just one or two face shots of him smiling. Like the act of flying didn't seem that much of a big deal with the way did it. Also, how quickly they did it. Like he just started and it was over in a blink of an eye. After that, it was just about getting from one place to another.

Maybe not fun in the "This is fun/awesome/whatever!!!" sense only. But, in a way that's kinda relaxing.

I'll just reply with this:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXAva_gO8Qk[/YT]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Maybe not fun in the "This is fun/awesome/whatever!!!" sense only. But, in a way that's kinda relaxing.

There's nothing more relaxing than having bugs smash into your teeth at mach 6 as you smile towards the camera. t:

 

[BH/HHH]

The difference with Iron Man flying and Superman flying gives Iron Man an advantage in effects because its machine parts where as a CG person is yet to really truly be done flawlessly.

Personally if we're comparing first flights nothing tops that Cavill scene in MOS the sheer joy on his face and the exhilaration is incredible.

 

[AnneFan]

Oldman speaks about The Fleck.

http://au.eonline.com/news/509831/b...d-crusader-he-s-got-a-hard-cowl-to-climb-into

 

[Lencho01]

I'll just reply with this:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXAva_gO8Qk[/YT]

I'm sure he'd be excited to see other characters from different films/shows flying too.

There's nothing more relaxing than having bugs smash into your teeth at mach 6 as you smile towards the camera. t:

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Iron Man's first flight was night time too, lets not forget. They gave themselves some wiggle room when it came to the visual.

All I can say is I love both movies, but I had a true "look at him go/the king is back" feel when I saw Cavil in flight in MOS. But that's me.

 

[Wooden Routh]

I'm sure he'd be excited to see other characters from different films/shows flying too.

Except you are seeing his reaction to MOS. Your straw-man is weak.

The video pretty much shattered your statement of "one or two shots of him smiling" too....

 

[Jekecy]

The difference with Iron Man flying and Superman flying gives Iron Man an advantage in effects because its machine parts where as a CG person is yet to really truly be done flawlessly.

That's a matter of rendering (dependent on vfx team and available tech) rather than directorial execution, which I think is the matter at hand.

I think the one standout flying shot has always been the one first shown in the teaser, where he's flying straight up. That's why I was so damn hyped early on, because that genuinely looked like "real" footage of a human being who could go at supersonic speeds.

I was disappointed in the standard closeups they did with the movie. It was really just an updated version of the old green-screen method. To modern eyes, I don't think that's nearly enough to convey the sense of heights, thrills, and depth of open environments at high speeds. Watch any wingsuit video online and compare it to MOS. There's a dramatic difference in the evocation of flight.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I guess that what I liked about the MOS flight was the sense they gave that now, truly, the world was his oyster, ya know? That sub orbital shot, going from the Grand Canyon, the plains of Africa... The world that had been somewhat lonely for Clark now had suddenly opened up in a way unique to him and him alone.

 

[Lencho01]

Except you are seeing his reaction to MOS. Your straw-man is weak.

The video pretty much shattered your statement of "one or two shots of him smiling" too....

You clearly don't see the point I'm making. No straw mans here. If anything, posting that video was a straw man argument.

It didn't shatter anything. The flight wasn't cool-looking or exciting to me.

 

[BH/HHH]

No CGI a human it never looks right, CGI plastic, metal, buildings, it looks flawless. Its as simple as that really, the CG Superman looked fantastic in MOS but not flawless whereas Iron Man's did because it was parts made of plastic or whatever it was made of.

 

[Wooden Routh]

You clearly don't see the point I'm making. No straw mans here. If anything, posting that video was a straw man argument.

You were saying the horrendously rendered Routh CGI puppet ending was superior and "more fun" than the MOS sequence. I posted a video of a baby seeing the joy in the MOS sequence.

Feel free to post a baby's reaction to Returns. I'd love to see it.

It didn't shatter anything. The flight wasn't cool-looking or exciting to me.

You said MOS showed "one or two shots of Cavill smiling". That was it.

The video shattered that statement.

 

[Lencho01]

Yeah....there were some points where you wondered if they just used the same closeup rig from STM.

Exactly. I'm surprised they went the route they did with the flight given the technology they have available.

 

[Marvin]

Abrams has been designing some of the best 'flying' scenes with live action humans in the two star trek films imo. Creative rigs and shoots.

And terms of CG for a human...I think we've seen some pretty darn good human CG combined with MoCap in some video game trailers these days. One would think that something could be concentrated on these days by a really good house like ILM or WETA to make it come out great and as real-looking as it can get. I think it actually starts with the movement animation.

In my experience, the rules are different in live action. For example no one ever complains about the cgi in say 'Incredibles'.
It's about the consistency of the world and game trailers cgi isn't as good as the best films cgi but it's as consistent to it's world as the cgi in a pixar movie is in their worlds.

You have a point about it starting with animation but full on human faces existing in a live action world is pretty much the hardest thing I've seen tackled in modern film.

 

[Wooden Routh]

You clearly don't see the point I'm making. No straw mans here. If anything, posting that video was a straw man argument.

It didn't shatter anything. The flight wasn't cool-looking or exciting to me.

Oh, and this is what you ACTUALLY said:

More than just one or two face shots of him smiling. Like the act of flying didn't seem that much of a big deal with the way did it. Also, how quickly they did it. Like he just started and it was over in a blink of an eye. After that, it was just about getting from one place to another.

Maybe not fun in the "This is fun/awesome/whatever!!!" sense only. But, in a way that's kinda relaxing.

The video showed this clearly wasn't the case.

 

[Lencho01]

You were saying the horrendously rendered Routh CGI puppet ending was superior and "more fun" than the MOS sequence. I posted a video of a baby seeing the joy in the MOS sequence.

Feel free to post a baby's reaction to Returns. I'd love to see it.

You said MOS showed "one or two shots of Cavill smiling". That was it.

The video shattered that statement.

How I feel about the depiction of flight has nothing to do with the CGI quality. Even a 2D toon could've shown something more exciting to me and that's not real. Like I said before, I found the flights with Reeve and even Welling more exciting and cool-looking.

I'm not sure why you're bringing that baby into this.

I guess you're going to take everything literal like when people describe MOS has overall being joyless. You'd probably say, "But, the flight scene!" right?

 

[Wooden Routh]

For clarity's sake, here are the two sequences in question:

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFnTR2XWxSQ[/YT]

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX-3HS8mZm0[/YT]

I would love to hear in what ways the Returns clip is more "exciting" or "fun" than the MOS one.

And please, actual reasons we can discuss. Don't hide behind "opinion".

 

[Wooden Routh]

How I feel about the depiction of flight has nothing to do with the CGI quality. Even a 2D toon could've shown something more exciting to me and that's not real. Like I said before, I found the flights with Reeve and even Welling more exciting and cool-looking.

As was the MOS sequence more "cool-looking" than the Returns one.

I'm not sure why you're bringing that baby into this.

The baby was a happy byproduct.

I guess you're going to take everything literal like when people describe MOS has overall being joyless. You'd probably say, "But, the flight scene!" right?

I guess making character assumptions is your last "weapon", 'eh?

 

[Jekecy]

It's getting there, though. Again, movement makes a huge difference when it's right...and mocap has done a lot for it. (I'm not talking about young Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy, of course). It's there to be done, but it's got to be done a certain way and combined right with real human shots.

You know what's also tough to do well without calling attention to the 'effect'...suit or no suit? Super speed...added motion blurs or filming speeds, etc. I wasn't crazy about a fair share of that in MOS either, but I'm trying to think of where it may have been done well. You don't really see that much in other stories/characters.

I do wonder if it's feasible to work with actual (wingsuit) flight footage as reference plates. I think the only time it's been done for a full action scene is in the last Transformers. Which looked damn fantastic. Come to think of it, Bay would've likely blown our minds if he had a chance to shoot Superman in full capabilities...