BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - Part 37

[Black Narcissus]

Every CBM, whether it's from DC or Marvel, has plot holes you could fly a 747 through. It's how HISHE got famous.

Did you see the one they did for Casino Royale? t:

 

[Crimson King]

Did you see the one they did for Casino Royale? t:

Hah! I just did.

The only nibble I had with them was with one part of the CA:TFA video. They made fun of all the German bombs having English city names on them. I was like, "The German name for Washington is 'Washington.'"

 

[Marvin]

^Good point.

 

[Wise]

Why didn't Captain America or SHIELD intervene in the galactus trilogy when the fantastic four was trying to stop galactus from eating the earth? Or in the latest Mighty Avengers series when Ultron sent out a message to every electronic device that said he was going to destroy the world; why didn't Spider-man pop by for a second to help stop it? Surely he knew what was going on?
There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples like this in the comics, and no one ever bats an eye.
If you can suspend your disbelief enough to buy into the idea of a guy turning giant and green when he's angry, or of a nearly invincible alien from another planet who's weakness is a green rock, or a rich insane guy who dresses up like a bat, then why can't you buy that a handful of powerful people are busy and can't intervene during a world crisis?

I used to love the way the Animated series used to handle crossovers.

When the whole universe was being sucked into the Enkron crystal in X-Men and the Earth's weather was wreaking havoc you saw a little cameo of spidey saving people in New York. Then later on Cap and Storm and the F4 all cameo'd on Spiderman.

 

[Frodo]

It would be easy to designate it as a "loss" after the fact. The point is had Nolan never been hired, we would've had no idea what he would've brought. There is no perception of loss on a non-existent product.

And just as Nolan brought back Batman, that title could've been held by someone just as capable. You don't think in an industry whose productions and titles are in constant flux, we missed out on literally thousands of potentially great films and performances because of a bad decision? We never notice them because they mostly go under the radar.

I don't regret Nolan's films, but I'm not holding onto them like a precious artifact either. There are dozens of equally great talents just waiting to be plucked out at any given time.

True, but given where the Batman 5 or reboot was before he came on, I doubt the next film would have really had the impact on that Nolan was able to give the character had it gone to another filmmaker . WB really wasn't about taking chances then. The most outside the box was Aronofsky who they ditched once BvS came along in 2002 with Wolfgang Peterson. In a sense you needed an outside the box thinker to redeem the character because WB was basically still in the 90's with Burton and Schumacer like approaches, i.e. big spectacles with Big names and little substance. I think you make a good point because we'll never really know, but remembering the landscape in the context of the post B&R , WB really was clueless and up a creek.

Alot of fans are too young to remember what it was like, but WB was in the wilderness and it wasn't until they were able to take a chance and try to go with this guy who had a much different approach then what been pitched, even from the Year One script, that they found their footing again. In that sense, WB was lucky to get him because he was looking at it differently then the other screenwriters and directors who WB were considering.

 

[The Guard]

Why didn't Captain America or SHIELD intervene in the galactus trilogy when the fantastic four was trying to stop galactus from eating the earth? Or in the latest Mighty Avengers series when Ultron sent out a message to every electronic device that said he was going to destroy the world; why didn't Spider-man pop by for a second to help stop it? Surely he knew what was going on?

There are hundreds upon hundreds of examples like this in the comics, and no one ever bats an eye.

If you can suspend your disbelief enough to buy into the idea of a guy turning giant and green when he's angry, or of a nearly invincible alien from another planet who's weakness is a green rock, or a rich insane guy who dresses up like a bat, then why can't you buy that a handful of powerful people are busy and can't intervene during a world crisis?

This.

So much this.

Also, the whole "there's no way to explain how THE DARK KNIGHT RISES could take place in a shared universe" argument is nonsense. For one thing, had it been part of a shared universe in the first place, it likely would have been adapted as such.

Barring that, there are several valid explanations for why various heroes might not have shown up, the easiest being that some/all of them didn't exist yet at that point in the timeline.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I feel like I'm opening a can of worms by posting this, but screw it. At least someone gets it:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/02/2...cket-raccoon-post-is-still-missing-the-point/

 

[Lily Adler]

Where did that MOS Wonder Woman Meme come from cause I love it.

 

[Neonzel]

I feel like I'm opening a can of worms by posting this, but screw it. At least someone gets it:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/02/2...cket-raccoon-post-is-still-missing-the-point/

I agree 100% with this article. Never understood why people thought this was funny in the first place.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I feel like I'm opening a can of worms by posting this, but screw it. At least someone gets it:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/02/2...cket-raccoon-post-is-still-missing-the-point/

WB be like, we don't know how to do a Flash movie.

Marvel be like, here's a talking raccoon teaming up with a talking tree that only says 3 words.

I never got the Wonder Woman thing. It should have been more so Flash than Wonder Woman.

 

[Loki882]

WB has yet to adequately explain WHY WW is so much more difficult to do than say Superman. And Marvel has yet to explain WHY Wakanda would be so hard to do. Because you have to build it "from the ground" up, no not buying it, not one bit. You did Thor and Asgard, and you're doing GOTG. How are those somehow easier to do than freaking Wakanda? Also, just because you might fail is no a valid excuse to not even try. That's like saying that the Wright Brothers should never have tried to make the airplane because they might have crashed. Yeah, it might fail, but it might also succeed. The point is, you don't know until you try.

 

[DeadPresident]

I think the race/gender issue is a lot more sensitive to the GA than people might think. The public backlash from them ****ing something up will damage the respective studios for a very, very long time.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Thor's world doesn't take place on Earth. His world is like the Fairy Oddparents Fairy World where you have to cross some rainbow bridge.... HOLY **** WHY AM I JUST NOTICING THIS NOW?????!!!!!!!!

Also GOTG takes place in space. Easy to tell space stories. It's hard to sell a lost world not known to us story. I would use King Kong as influence for Wonder Woman.

I still want a reason Flash can't get a film. Give me one ****ing reason.

 

[SofNascimento]

All I say about this rocket raccoon thing is this: "this rocket raccoon post misses the point entirely. It might sound 'wow marvel, many fims, much daring' at first, but if you think two seconds about it, how many female lead superhero filmes Marvel did? Not to mention the protagonist of GOTG is a white male. It's no different than Ted really."

I believe this was the point of the article posted above?

 

[MrsKent26]

I still want a reason Flash can't get a film. Give me one ****ing reason.

Superhero movies aren't WB's only priority? They don't need to make a Flash film? They have many other movies on their slate?

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

A Flash movie would be a mix of Spider-Man, Batman, Hulk, Planet of the Apes, Back to the Future mixed into one.

 

[Gee]

I feel like I'm opening a can of worms by posting this, but screw it. At least someone gets it:
http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/02/2...cket-raccoon-post-is-still-missing-the-point/

 

[X Knight]

hey, geetard, who is that in your avvy?

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The Purple People Eater.

 

[Marvin]

This.

So much this.

Also, the whole "there's no way to explain how THE DARK KNIGHT RISES could take place in a shared universe" argument is nonsense. For one thing, had it been part of a shared universe in the first place, it likely would have been adapted as such.

Barring that, there are several valid explanations for why various heroes might not have shown up, the easiest being that some/all of them didn't exist yet at that point in the timeline.

Meh,
It's not about TDKR not working, clearly that particular film not only take place in a universe with no working hero meta's, but because of it.

As for the other heroes not existing yet, sorta like Ironman 1. Sure, keep that premise into the third final batman film in which he retires...having the other heroes start up after he's long gone. Kinda defeats the shared Universe point imo. Use that premise for every installment regardless of character...

Account for Superman and Martian Manhunter not intervening, if done well, effectively steering the film out of solo territory imo. Or you do what sometimes happens in comics and just say "screw it, no one else showed/shows up", even as the world is ending and we're not gonna bother even trying to tell you why.
To which end I'd question what the point of even calling the universe shared. See Days of Future Past/Age of Apocalypse vs Old Man Logan: Which of these has a better shot of fully happening in the current Fox movie continuity and why. Fox being non shared(currently).

I liked Shared, just saying if it's treated with the care some of these solo's have been thus far it's gonna take alot better effort than I've been seeing. Also, if done well it will scale down solo's, if they are to remain "solo's" that is.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I remember a line Joker said in Arkham Asylum:

"Joker here! I'm in control of Arkham Island and you can all consider it out of bounds. If I see any lawman, vigilantes, or do gooders in tights coming this way; I'll start detonating random bombs around the city."

I still find this photo funny though:

 

[MrsKent26]

^ haha, that is neat. Poor Joker.

 

[Lencho01]

I agree 100% with this article. Never understood why people thought this was funny in the first place.

Because it is funny, on the surface.

But, when you think about it, GOTG can just be viewed as another film with a white male lead, not some talking raccoon.

From what I've read, it has to do with foreign BO. So, studios are less willing to spend the type of money they do with big budget films that have white male leads than those with a female and/or minority lead. Thus, it's "hard" to make films for character like WW or Black Panther from the get-go an their best bet is spinning off some other film or being low budget (which would probably hurt the film).

 

[TheBat812]

Overall people don't care about plot holes in the mcu films.

If this is considered a "plot hole", how do people view comic book stories? IMO it doesn't become a plot hole unless the characters are specifically mentioned in that story. Personally I kind of just ignore it, as it's an established convention of comic book worlds. If we were going to be 'realistic', every cbm would end with a lovely dues ex machina saving the day. in any case, this isn't the reason most marvel films are mediocre films.

 

[Mad Love]

Because it is funny, on the surface.

But, when you think about it, GOTG can just be viewed as another film with a white male lead, not some talking raccoon.

From what I've read, it has to do with foreign BO. So, studios are less willing to spend the type of money they do with big budget films that have white male leads than those with a female and/or minority lead. Thus, it's "hard" to make films for character like WW or Black Panther from the get-go an their best bet is spinning off some other film or being low budget (which would probably hurt the film).

And, GotG is an ensemble movie. Wonder Woman is already in MOS2 which is also an ensemble movie. The comparison doesn't hold up.

Not to mention there have been tons of talking animals in movies so in no way is Rocket Raccoon a riskier character. GotG is actually a safe move for Marvel because they are using the team of colorful characters formula like the Avengers, except with much cheaper actors.

Does anyone know GotG's budget?