BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - Part 41

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]475211[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]474801[/split]

 

[Brother Jack]

The Dark Knight trilogy, anyone? How could you consider them hiring a filmmaker like Nolan to bring that franchise back from disaster to be anything but a risk?

Making a Batman trilogy wasn't a risk, it was inevitable that it would return after Schumacher. The risk, which doesn't seem like a risk at all in hindsight, was hiring Nolan. At the time he had only made two studio films and hadn't even gotten close to the size of a superhero blockbuster. And it of course worked out incredibly well.

 

[The Endless]

Also if we want to talk risks... how about getting a loan to fund two movies (Iron Man and TIH) where one is a unknown character directed by the guy who did Elf and is starring a former drug addict and convict.

Marvel showed incredible faith in Iron Man, Favreau and RDJ. If those films bombed the MCU would have been dead before it got going. And considering they used loans to make them, it could have had even worse repercussions for Marvel in it's entirety. Those who deny the risks Marvel have undertaken are living on a different planet.

As both a DC and Marvel fan that is what irks me. Marvel seem to have so much more confidence and faith in their source material. This isn't about who is better. Marvel are giving James Gunn, someone who has made films like Slither and Super (awesome films as they are, but incredibly quirky and unusual) 200 million dollars to make a film about a group of characters including 2 serial killers who even most comic fans have never heard of. WB/DC are still struggling to get Wonder Woman and Flash off the ground.

But then DC/WB have a clear advantage over Marvel. Vertigo and other adult properties. I want to see more films like V for Vendetta and Watchmen. Give me The Sandman. Give me 100 Bullets. It's not that i feel entitled to films like that. But as a huge fan, particularly of The Sandman, they are the films i'd absolutely love to see. Earlier in the thread people were talking about getting Kosinksi on board for DC/WB, for maybe Green Lantern. I say what about The Sandman? It could be incredible.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Isn't Gunn super pals with Feige and Joss? Just saying.

 

[The Endless]

He may be. But as someone who has read the GotG comics, he's got the right sensibility to nail it. And still, giving someone like him 200 mill to play around with is pretty crazy.

 

[The Endless]

But anyway... am i the only one who hopes they take a lot of influence from Azarrelo's Lex Luthor: Man of Steel? That was such an awesome story and although Batman's role was small, it was so effective.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

But anyway... am i the only one who hopes they take a lot of influence from Azarrelo's Lex Luthor: Man of Steel? That was such an awesome story and although Batman's role was small, it was so effective.

Other than Lex being a guy that's BSing the world with an act of benevolence (which had been there since Byrne's revamp and which Stern embellished upon) I've never gotten the big deal about that book other than the art. So for me, that would be a no vote.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

All I know is that I'm so excited to see Eisenberg as Lex.

 

[Mr. Dent]

I think it's pretty clear WB is going to be the one to blink when it comes to that release date. It's not even about which film will gross more, I think most people will concede that Batman+Superman+Wonder Woman > Captain America even with it likely riding the momentum of two back-to-back very good prequels (Cap 2 and A2). Marvel simply has the psychological advantage and is in a better place on the chess board.

To put it simply, WB NEEDS BvS to do as well as it can to get their universe off the ground. They can't afford any missteps whatsoever. Meanwhile, regardless of whether Cap 3 is good or bad or grosses a lot, it will be "just another" film in the MCU, which is a good thing. It will not hurt Marvel if Cap 3 "only" grosses around $500m, that will be a success to them. Hell, it doesn't even matter if it outright flops (which is unlikely even with BvS opening with it) because it would likely be the last Cap movie they would have had planned for this decade and it doesn't hurt their other movies whatsoever, nor would it hurt their image because they have too good of a proven track record by then.

On the other hand with WB, I could make the argument that if this movie grosses anything short of a billion it will be a failure in principle. If they can't get the two biggest superheros in the world to gross more than a billion together, you have to question how they can profitize their "lesser" properties like Flash...who is still bigger than most of the characters Marvel is putting on film. Like I said, they can't afford any missteps whatsoever with this movie, they're putting all their eggs into it, while Marvel has very little to lose and a lot to gain by holding their ground, and I think they realize that, which is why Feige was so confident that they weren't going to be moving.

I can understand they probably wanted to wait and see what Marvel would put there, but honestly, I don't know what WB was thinking here. They should have foreseen this coming and known that they weren't in a position to challenge Marvel for that spot. Now it's just going to be a big story when they move that will give the perception they have egg on their face.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

None of this matters to the GA. This movie is still over 2 years away. GAs won't know or care if S/B doesn't hit a billion.

Even if it's terrible, BvS has enough inherent appeal that it will make enough make money for WB to make more movies.

 

[Mr. Dent]

They need this to be a sensation to carry enough momentum to start doing more outside of Batman and Superman solo movies and cement it as a big franchise. It can be just a moderate hit, it has to do $1b+. Anything less isn't good enough. You have Batman+Superman+Wonder Woman all in the same film. That should be able to gross as much as the Avengers if not more. If it can't do that then I highly doubt we ever see WB venture off from Batman and Superman solo films and leaving everything else in Justice League movies.

 

[Micromind]

Marvel and WB don't really care how many fans actually turn up to watch thses movies, most fans would end up watching both movies....Marvel fans would say that Cap 3 was better movie and DC fans would say the opposite.

To both Studios, what matters is how the general audience react to the movies.... and this is where Marvel would be relying on Avengers 2 momentum to carry their Cap 3 movie.

Let's face it, WB stands to loose certain amount of money as many members from general audience would just not be interested in watching both comic book movies..... since Batman Vs Superman would be the more expensive movie of the two, it would need to earn much more money than Cap 3 to be declared successful.

Marvel has eaten into WB's profits by letting Cap 3 release on the same week.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

They need this to be a sensation to carry enough momentum to start doing more outside of Batman and Superman solo movies and cement it as a big franchise. It can be just a moderate hit, it has to do $1b+. Anything less isn't good enough. You have Batman+Superman+Wonder Woman all in the same film. That should be able to gross as much as the Avengers if not more. If it can't do that then I highly doubt we ever see WB venture off from Batman and Superman solo films and leaving everything else in Justice League movies.

I think this depends more on the success of the Justice League films, not BvS.

And BvS does not need to hit a billion for WB to make Justice League.

 

[MrsKent26]

And BvS does not need to hit a billion for WB to make Justice League.

That's true, but sometimes I wonder if WB expects a billion.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Cap 3 is going to happen but at this point it's theoretical. Supes/Bats is definitely happening but will commence initial shooting soon, and this actual release date is YEARS away. Frankly, my own speculations included, it's WAY too early to be proclaiming ANYTHING. Lets at least see what the actual scuttlebutt Supes/Bats has in post production and what it's trailers will look like before we make any pronouncements.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

It's true. The release dates will likely change (if not several times), and people will forget that any of this even happened come 2016.

After all, most people seem to have forgot that The Avengers was delayed by 10 months.

 

[matt47]

Whenever people are talking about this "cap 3 vs b/s" I just go watch this

[YT]9C-bU3rhX_Q[/YT]

boom. excitement. that wouldnt happen at a cap 3 reveal.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The Marvel/DC thing has always been tiresome, even as a lad collecting books in the 1990's. When it gets too hot around here these days, I look at this:




[YT]4sqGeqtKkjg[/YT]


After I see this I am reminded of what a grand time it is to be a fan of superheroes, and oh what the future will bring us all. t:

 

[slumcat]

Wouldn't it be a devastating debacle for DC and DC fans if the first ever Batman+Superman+Wonder Woman film has to back off from squaring against the sequel of a sequel of a not very famous Marvel character?

It would be a defeat no matter how you see it.

There is also the fact that the for whatever godforsaken reason, DC movies are just so much more expensive than Marvel movies. So they need to gross much much much more to be deemed equally profitable. DCCU first film cost more than MCU's team-up film after 5 solo releases.

So lets see how this plays out.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

If it makes enough money for a Justice League movie, which it will, then it's not a defeat in my eyes.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Wouldn't it be a devastating debacle for DC and DC fans if the first ever Batman+Superman+Wonder Woman film has to back off from squaring against the sequel of a sequel of a not very famous Marvel character?

It would be a defeat no matter how you see it.

There is also the fact that the for whatever godforsaken reason, DC movies are just so much more expensive than Marvel movies. So they need to gross much much much more to be deemed equally profitable. DCCU first film cost more than MCU's team-up film after 5 solo releases.

So lets see how this plays out.

It would only be a debacle if however you slice it the film doesn't generate the revenues they want. Notice, I said revenues, and not Box Office? Because the ancillaries of Blu Ray, On Demand, cable broadcast rights, merchandise (toys, games, books, ect.) are as big if not bigger than ever in the overall picture.

As for the fans? Seems that despite a vocal online group acting outright offended at the finished product MOS was... DCE/WB did not give two airborne copulations and went and gave this supposed failure a sequel, and is now positioning said failure to be the cornerstone of it's new fantasy franchise to replace the loss of the POTTER series.

Also, Cap is a different animal than Dr. Strange or GoTG. He is actually quite well known, even before his two, soon to be three motion picture appearances. Again, though, with two plus years to go, who knows what will happen, but a lethal blow because a release date is changed? I don't get the logic, since many films have had that done to optimize BO.

And, lastly, a film like GL or MOS cost the way they do in comparison to Marvel heroes' films because as hard as it is for Marvel fans to hear, characters like Superman and GL are WAY more powerful. To satisfy the SFX needs of truly bringing those characters to life means a crap ton more effort in rendering than for a Cap, or and Iron Man, or even a Hulk or a Thor. That's in no way saying DC heroes are better. Some would argue, and do, that the godlike status of DC heroes does not allow for the struggles that define and enhance such characters as you see with a Spidey, or Iron Man or Cap. The thing is, with GL, FLASH, or Superman, for a modern day audience, they can't be nerfed. You need to show them at their peak power in some way. And as for the cost of Nolan's Batfilms? He went and gave them a pretty big scope for films about a non-powered guy in a cape and cowl.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

^Although I agree with that in principle, Green Lantern wasted so much money.

All those Lanterns on Oa were extremely detailed. All for nothing. They didn't do anything. Parallax was also extremely well detailed (even though it just ends up looking like a poo cloud from a far. Such a waste). All the expensive big name actors were squandered as well.

On the other hand TDKR cost a lot because of the scale of practical effects, sets (the well), the actors, the locations, etc. Totally worth it.

MOS had a ton of CG and quite the cast of big name actors. Luckily it already covered $170 million of its cost in product placement, which in my opinion fit in quite well (except maybe the shot of the Nikon camera's fancy zoom function...).

 

[sportjames23]

two airborne copulations

Consider this stolen.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

^Although I agree with that in principle, Green Lantern wasted so much money.

All those Lanterns on Oa were extremely detailed. All for nothing. They didn't do anything. Parallax was also extremely well detailed (even though it just ends up looking like a poo cloud from a far. Such a waste). All the expensive big name actors were squandered as well.

On the other hand TDKR cost a lot because of the scale of practical effects, sets (the well), the actors, the locations, etc. Totally worth it.

MOS had a ton of CG and quite the cast of big name actors.

It wasn't a defense of what was done in the mediocrity of the GL film. Say a new GL film comes along... It's most like still going to cost more than a Cap or even a Thor film, because the power level inherent in the character demands a lot of SFX. Unless one WANTS to see GL handled the way he was in that JL pilot from the 1990's? GL's biggest problem was indeed, the mediocre script. But make no mistake... in any film that the GL character appears in, it's going to cost a ton of money, as compared to some other heroes. It's the nature of the beast.