BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - Part 46

[SpideyFan866]

Man of Steel 2: Save the Last Dance

Spoiler

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4679306.html

Thanks for reminding me why I can't stand New 52 Supes and Wondy.

 

[luis4u]

I think that might have changed since I remember it being an issue with the Brave & the Bold toon. Then, the producers later saying Geoff Johns really helped out with having her appear on the show for real. That might have helped with Young Justice too, but I'm not sure.

I don't think it change same goes for wonder girl Donna troy..
Wonder Girl isn't allowed to appear on another character's solo series (unless maybe if it was Wonder Woman's), but she should still have been able to appear on Teen Titans and Young Justice as a member of each team.

 

[Lencho01]

Thanks for reminding me why I can't stand New 52 Supes and Wondy.

Don't forget that the relationship was already doomed from the start. Or at least, that's what they pretty much when it first started.

I don't think it change same goes for wonder girl Donna troy..
Wonder Girl isn't allowed to appear on another character's solo series (unless maybe if it was Wonder Woman's), but she should still have been able to appear on Teen Titans and Young Justice as a member of each team.

I don't know about Wonder Girl. I was just referring to Wonder Woman. A show like Brave & the Bold, you'd think she would've showed up earlier. But, the whole guest star issue needed to be resolved. Then, it was. I'm just assuming the same thing happened with Young Justice since she was pretty much a guest star on that show too.

 

[luis4u]

Don't forget that the relationship was already doomed from the start. Or at least, that's what they pretty much when it first started.



I don't know about Wonder Girl. I was just referring to Wonder Woman. A show like Brave & the Bold, you'd think she would've showed up earlier. But, the whole guest star issue needed to be resolved. Then, it was. I'm just assuming the same thing happened with Young Justice since she was pretty much a guest star on that show too.

you are right..

 

[green]

It's difficult to get the license to do a Wonder Woman movie in the first place. There have been licensing problems with Superman, but nothing like trying make Wonder Woman. While details are shrouded in secrecy we know two things: it's expensive and complicated. When Kelly was making his expensive Wonder Woman pilot, most of the cost came from "the studio requiring a rich license fee." Paul Dini, who produced Batman Beyond and other DC cartoons, said, "There's kind of a licensing problem: if we wanted to do Wonder Woman as a series, we could do that, [but] if it was a guest-shot, it was a little more problematic. I don't really understand it, it just turned out to be easier all the way around [to use Big Barda in the Batman Beyond episode 'The Call']." Is Wonder Woman stuck in legal red tape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca-VNfl3wBM

I believe this may have been the case awhile back but not so sure any longer.

http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/06/comic-book-urban-legend-revealed-1.html

COMIC URBAN LEGEND: DC must publish at least four issues of Wonder Woman a year or else lose the rights to the property.

STATUS: False

It has long been said that if DC did not publish Wonder Woman at least four times a year, that the rights would revert back to the estate of William Moulton Marston, creator of Wonder Woman.

Writer Kurt Busiek addressed the rumors earlier this year,
They are no longer true, but they were true for a long time — as I understand it, the terms were that DC had to publish at least four issues with "Wonder Woman" as the banner lead feature or rights would revert. That's why DC did the LEGEND OF WONDER WOMAN mini-series that I wrote and Trina Robbins drew — the Perez revamp was in development, but coming along slowly, and they had to publish something to fulfil the contract terms.

They specifically didn't want something that would be attention-getting, because they didn't want to undercut the revamp. So they wanted something gentle and nostalgic, and we had fun doing it.

In the intervening years, though, I'm given to understand that at some point DC bought the character outright, and thus those contract terms are no longer in force.

This refers to comics but I imagine if WB/DC bought the complete rights it would have included film as well.

 

[Lencho01]

This is what was said for Brave & the Bold...

http://comicsalliance.com/batman-th...s-tucker-michael-jelenic-ben-jones-interview/

CA: As far as going back to look at those villains, what was it like when you were gearing up to make the show? Was everyone on the table? Was there a certain list that DC wanted you to use? Even by the end of the first season, you’re doing Kamandi and OMAC, characters that are beloved by very small groups of people.

JT: Old groups of people, at this point. We had a list, and I also think they wanted us to tell them who we were going to use at the beginning of the season. We had to tell them every character that we were going to use that season, which, the way we work, there’s no way to do that. We kind of guessed, and sometimes we’d stick in some characters on the side. The only two we definitely knew we couldn’t use were Superman and Wonder Woman, until we got special dispensation in the third season. But yeah, we had to know ahead of time, and it was kind of difficult. But we made it work.

CA: Was there anyone you wanted to use that got rejected?

MJ: I think that the only ones we couldn’t get were just Superman villains. We wanted to use Toyman, and he became Funhouse. Really, we got to use pretty much everybody. Ben, I think the only character you wanted to use was, like, Ambush Bug, right?

BJ: Ambush Bug, yes. But we didn’t get him until the very end.

MJ: If we didn’t use someone, it was probably just because we didn’t get around to it ourselves. We weren’t told not to use anyone.

 

[Lencho01]

[YT]d0sRrI2m4zE[/YT]

 

[Pants Under Underpants]

As all of the studios have made blatantly clear that female leads are in. Do you guys see them trying to bring in more female superheroes for the Justice League? Like, instead of Martain Manhunter, they would have Miss Martain. I never liked Hawkgirl. At all.

 

[D.P.]

What's unreasonable about thinking life is precious and holding one's self to that standard?

Nothing, I think it's moreso about character development than anything.

What happens when someone is forced into killing an enemy in order to save billions of lives? I think that would reinforce those standards and ideals even more and act as a learning experience.

 

[gugumugats]

As all of the studios have made blatantly clear that female leads are in. Do you guys see them trying to bring in more female superheroes for the Justice League? Like, instead of Martain Manhunter, they would have Miss Martain. I never liked Hawkgirl. At all.

I actually thought of this as an alternative to get more diversity.

In hindsight, its kinda cynical to treat Miss Martian like something on a checklist.

 

[DA_Champion]

As all of the studios have made blatantly clear that female leads are in. Do you guys see them trying to bring in more female superheroes for the Justice League? Like, instead of Martain Manhunter, they would have Miss Martain. I never liked Hawkgirl. At all.

Female leads are in ?

Marvel will have 9 solo movies, none of which have a female lead.

The Avengers 2, 7 men, 2 women.

50 comic book movies and counting yields Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

What's unreasonable about thinking life is precious and holding one's self to that standard?

Possible explanations (from my own, personal wikipedia):

1. The filmmakers didn't know what they were doing. "Why can't he just kill him? Just kidding...or am I? Yeah, let's just kill Zod and see what happens. We can make up excuses later in interviews...or explore it in the sequel."

Scene from Superman vs Batman:

Superman (whining): "I'm sooo depressed! I killed Zod...oh, how could I..."

Lois Lane: "Hi Clark, I made some pizza."

Superman: "Pizza!t:"

2. It's "unrealistic". We don't want our heroes to save cats from trees, collect money for the Salvation Army or pick flowers for their girlfriends (half-joking). Movies about flying aliens in tights shouldn't be fun...a superhero movie should be more serious than a regular movie. "Perfect" heroes are boring! We want superpowered versions of ourselves.

3. Goyer didn't have a choice, he had to kill Zod to save the family.

But seriously, I wouldn't mind Zod dying if it was done better. It could have been accidental..."Oh no, I guess I'll have to be more careful from now on!" Or they could have saved it for the third movie or something? Superman is forced to kill Zod/Doomsday/Mutated Otis, and retires for a while.

I don't buy the "he had to go Mortal Kombat on Zod's neck to know that it's wrong to kill! He's new at this!" If Pa Kent hadn't been such a moral relativist, Superman wouldn't have to find it out the hard way.

Maybe Pa Kent will show up as the real Zod later.

 

[SofNascimento]

Female leads are in ?

Marvel will have 9 solo movies, none of which have a female lead.

The Avengers 2, 7 men, 2 women.

50 comic book movies and counting yields Supergirl, Catwoman and Elektra.

Funny thing, you can combine the three and still not have an average film.

 

[D.P.]

Possible explanations (from my own, personal wikipedia):

1. The filmmakers didn't know what they were doing. "Why can't he just kill him? Just kidding...or am I? Yeah, let's just kill Zod and see what happens. We can make up excuses later in interviews...or explore it in the sequel."

Scene from Superman vs Batman:

Superman (whining): "I'm sooo depressed! I killed Zod...oh, how could I..."

Lois Lane: "Hi Clark, I made some pizza."

Superman: "Pizza!t:"

2. It's "unrealistic". We don't want our heroes to save cats from trees, collect money for the Salvation Army or pick flowers for their girlfriends (half-joking). Movies about flying aliens in tights shouldn't be fun...a superhero movie should be more serious than a regular movie. "Perfect" heroes are boring! We want superpowered versions of ourselves.

3. Goyer didn't have a choice, he had to kill Zod to save the family.

But seriously, I wouldn't mind Zod dying if it was done better. It could have been accidental..."Oh no, I guess I'll have to be more careful from now on!" Or they could have saved it for the third movie or something? Superman is forced to kill Zod/Doomsday/Mutated Otis, and retires for a while.

I don't buy the "he had to go Mortal Kombat on Zod's neck to know that it's wrong to kill! He's new at this!" If Pa Kent hadn't been such a moral relativist, Superman wouldn't have to find it out the hard way.

Maybe Pa Kent will show up as the real Zod later.

None of your possible explanations give the filmmakers any credit...

 

[MrsKent26]

Possible explanations (from my own, personal wikipedia):

1. The filmmakers didn't know what they were doing. "Why can't he just kill him? Just kidding...or am I? Yeah, let's just kill Zod and see what happens. We can make up excuses later in interviews...or explore it in the sequel."

Scene from Superman vs Batman:

Superman (whining): "I'm sooo depressed! I killed Zod...oh, how could I..."

Lois Lane: "Hi Clark, I made some pizza."

Superman: "Pizza!t:"

2. It's "unrealistic". We don't want our heroes to save cats from trees, collect money for the Salvation Army or pick flowers for their girlfriends (half-joking). Movies about flying aliens in tights shouldn't be fun...a superhero movie should be more serious than a regular movie. "Perfect" heroes are boring! We want superpowered versions of ourselves.

3. Goyer didn't have a choice, he had to kill Zod to save the family.

But seriously, I wouldn't mind Zod dying if it was done better. It could have been accidental..."Oh no, I guess I'll have to be more careful from now on!" Or they could have saved it for the third movie or something? Superman is forced to kill Zod/Doomsday/Mutated Otis, and retires for a while.

I don't buy the "he had to go Mortal Kombat on Zod's neck to know that it's wrong to kill! He's new at this!" If Pa Kent hadn't been such a moral relativist, Superman wouldn't have to find it out the hard way.

Maybe Pa Kent will show up as the real Zod later.

This is amusing. I've talked about "those people" before and here is one of them to prove my point. Not only do you have a rigid idea about the whole thing, but you can barely articulate why. Most of this is just weird jokes.

"He just can't kill! Because...reasons!"

Lol, ok then...

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

This is amusing. I've talked about "those people" before and here is one of them to prove my point. Not only do you have a rigid idea about the whole thing, but you can barely articulate why. Most of this is just weird jokes.

"He just can't kill! Because...reasons!"

Lol, ok then...

"Those people"? That's racist

I prefer the "goody-goody" version of Superman, but that doesn't mean he can't kill. I just think the "reasoning" behind it is silly...and the way they did it. Hopefully the sequel will clean up the mess.

And please, lighten up a bit. Were talking about a movie, it's not like I ate your pet goldfish or anything.

 

[Naked Shia]

Goshdarn Batman is funny, so you all stop harassing him I say!

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

This is amusing. I've talked about "those people" before and here is one of them to prove my point. Not only do you have a rigid idea about the whole thing, but you can barely articulate why. Most of this is just weird jokes.

"He just can't kill! Because...reasons!"

Lol, ok then...

Just playing Devil's Advocate, but the reason Clark uses his powers to help people is just "Because... Reasons!".

The attack on Metropolis and death of Zod should have been reorganised and done in a different manner. There's very little suspense in the fight because usually, the final confrontation in a cape film is to occupy the hero from the more pressing matter (Fear gas monorail, Chitauri invasion, Helicarriers, Arc reactor running out of power, nuclear warhead- I could go on).

A notable example to the contrary, however, is Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight. This final confrontation is- out of context- very similar to Man of Steel, the hero is talking to the villain, pleading them to not continue, who is threatening a family. However Harvey, in the wider context of the film, is a sympathetic character, he begins as a man striving for good, is wronged and pursues his own brand of personal justice. This is not the case for Zod. The finale of Man of Steel is just a fight and then a killing. It lacks the same impact and makes the killing more prominent.

I really do think people would be more readily accepting of the killing had it been presented better.

 

[MrsKent26]

"Those people"? That's racist

I prefer the "goody-goody" version of Superman, but that doesn't mean he can't kill. I just think the "reasoning" behind it is silly...and the way they did it. Hopefully the sequel will clean up the mess.

And please, lighten up a bit. Were talking about a movie, it's not like I ate your pet goldfish or something.

What would you consider the "goody-goody" version?

And I'm plenty "lightened up." You made an odd post and I responded. The whole "That's racist" thing isn't that good of a joke, either.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Goshdarn Batman is funny, so you all stop harassing him I say!

 

[MrsKent26]

The attack on Metropolis and death of Zod should have been reorganised and done in a different manner. There's very little suspense in the fight because usually, the final confrontation in a cape film is to occupy the hero from the more pressing matter (Fear gas monorail, Chitauri invasion, Helicarriers, Arc reactor running out of power, nuclear warhead- I could go on).

There's no suspense in a fight for the Earth? There's nothing to be lost if Zod wins?

 

[snpklsdmbldr]

true story

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

There's no suspense in a fight for the Earth? There's nothing to be lost if Zod wins?

You missed the point, yes Zod is a threat, but in a lot of these films, the villain is not the main threat:

X-Men- Magneto is the villain, the more pressing matter is the machine in the Statue of Liberty
X-2- Stryker is the villain, the more pressing matter is Charles potentially killing all humans.
Spider-Man- Similar to Man of Steel, the pressing matter of children vs Mary Jane is tackled before Goblin, though Goblin defeats himself.
Spider-Man 2- Fusion reactor and MJ
Batman Begins- Fear gas monorail
The Dark Knight- Although not the final villain, Batman has to worry about the boats as well as Joker.
The Dark Knight Rises- Nuclear warhead
Superman Returns- New Krypton
Iron Man- Low power arc reactor
Iron Man 2- Self destructice armours
Captain America- The ship that would attack the US east coast
Green Lantern- Parallax is still coming
The Avengers- The Chitauri army
The Winter Soldier- The Helicarriers
The Dark World- The Aether

And on and on and on, in all these films, whether you consider them good or bad, the villain is not the main threat. Whether the villain is defeated is not the point, because they've still got the more pressing matter to attend to.

That does not exist in Man of Steel, had Superman killed Zod by forcing him into the Phantom Zone with the World Engine that was destroying Metropolis, I think people would be more readily accepting of it.

 

[DA_Champion]

The biggest suspense recently was the first class climax.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I quite like The Dark Knight Rises, although the actual bomb sequence got spoiled months before, none of us actually knew if Bruce was going to survive, and being the end of the series, he may not have.