BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 96

[Wise]

How does Batman remain an urban legend with that BEAST of a Batmobile?

Or with a sizable merchandise line?

t:

 

[Fumardude]

Or with a sizable merchandise line?

t:

What does it say? I cant see it

 

[Guts]

What does it say? I cant see it

Keep calm and call Batman.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Keep calm and call on The BATMAN!

 

[I Am The Knight]

You're doing this very thing right here. Covering your eyes and shouting lalala. 'We know journalists such as lois exist'(then you go on to explain her job), take this same quasi analysis and determine just what kinda modern resources would be employed to uncover and put a stop to the above the law and all but functional terrorist that is batman by said city and by extension US gov't in response to his continued existence. It's really simple, he's a working criminal with military hardware on US soil(I know it's pretty crazy in the states but I'm not so sure the second amendment covers that). First they will uncover whom he infact is(central intelligence and our top spies aren't nearly as inept as many claim they be), then proceed forward at their discretion. Assuming Wayne himself is using his own personal wealth and not his publicly traded companies money at the pace he seems to, there are a bunch of other reasons he would no doubt be brought down....that is in the world that 'makes sense' and not the one where we cover our ears.
I only bring up satellites cause I figure that would be the easiest way to track where it is his car comes from and goes back to(unless he uses one of his temp locations). I suppose his ability to hack into said systems would be the next order of business but then again...nolan bats didn't seem like he could hang imo.

Again, it doesn't matter what the CIA would do in in real life. One can easily suspend disbelief over that because if you don't then it's game over. However, that doesn't give you charte blanche to say "oh also he's been an urban legend for 30 years. You accepted the other thing so accept this now". You have to draw the line somewhere. This is where I draw the line. The only way this can work is if they change the way Batman operates, which is frankly, lame and the exact opposite of what I would expect from Snyder.

No, all that seems to matter is what you will call out for being nonsense when it comes to batman working and what you will accept.

It is nonsense. It sounds ridiculous.

A tank driving through the streets right now doesn't prove batman exists. A giant symbol in the sky right now in my or your city doesn't prove batman exists(sry but it doesn't, not as much as a giant symbol of a slice of cheese prove a cheese man hero exists). Every criminal in my city swearing up and down they have been beat up by Superman/The Easter bunny or Jesus himself doesn't prove any such thing.
A flying sleigh drawn by Raindeer however, and on camera, myth proven.
Just saying.

Not one specific thing will prove something, but when you connect all the dots, you have something that is no longer a myth. Journalists can connect the dots, so can the police. So can regular people. People, you know, talk. People will see this Batman, get punched by this Batman, etc. At some point people will have to believe he actually exists when someone snaps a picture of him.

So all of a sudden every criminal will be declared insane because they all say they saw a Batman? And no one will think this actually means anything? Lol. You have a very intersting mind, Marvin

I'll tell you what will happen. Either this silly rumor ends up being, well, just a rumor, or they handle this in such a vague way that it won't even make it worth it to have included it in the narrative in the first place.

 

[Wise]

Snyder is taking his Batman inspiration from Dark Knight Returns and we know that Batman wasn't by any means an urban legend in that story.

 

[Marvin]

Snyder is taking his Batman inspiration from Dark Knight Returns and we know that Batman wasn't by any means an urban legend in that story.

That settles it then

 

[matt47]

Snyder is taking his Batman inspiration from Dark Knight Returns and we know that Batman wasn't by any means an urban legend in that story.

Well remember that new report the lady says that some young people think the stories are urban legends.

 

[Guts]

You know about that urban legend about how if you eat pop rocks and drink coke at the same time, you are going to blow up? I bet Batman is going to be just like that.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Again, it doesn't matter what the CIA would do in in real life. One can easily suspend disbelief over that because if you don't then it's game over. However, that doesn't give you charte blanche to say "oh also he's been an urban legend for 30 years. You accepted the other thing so accept this now". You have to draw the line somewhere. This is where I draw the line. The only way this can work is if they change the way Batman operates, which is frankly, lame and the exact opposite of what I would expect from Snyder.

I agree. These characters clearly reside in a very fictional world, a world that will undoubtedly push the boundaries of our imagination; it's not real life. Like you suggest, though, a good narrative needs to be built on a solid foundation. There has to be structure. For instance, we all know that Superman can fly in MoS, we know he's nigh-invulnerable. That's already been established. So, you can't really shoot a scene where Cav-El gets pushed out of a window and incurs a terrible injury (unless, of course, there's been a recent development leaving him bereft of his powers). Similarly, if you go out of your way to show that ordinary humans are incapable of performing superhuman feats, you can't suddenly change your mind just because you want your protagonist to recover from a broken back so that he can proceed to save the day. You have to decide early on what you want your film to be; you have to establish rules and limits; and then you have to adhere to that very framework of your own design.

 

[Rowsdower!]

You know about that urban legend about how if you eat pop rocks and drink coke at the same time, you are going to blow up? I bet Batman is going to be just like that.

 

[Wise]

Well remember that new report the lady says that some young people think the stories are urban legends.

So we know that Batman is semi-retired in this film.

Maybe he hasn't been fully active for around 5 years so questions around his existence in the first place start to come up an some citizens or young teenagers dismiss him as an urban legend.

Whereas the cops and mob know that he is in fact real.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

So we know that Batman is semi-retired in this film.

Maybe he hasn't been fully active for around 5 years so questions around his existence in the first place start to come up an some citizens or young teenagers dismiss him as an urban legend.

Whereas the cops and mob know that he is in fact real.

No. We don't know that. That is very much just a rumor.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Again with that semi-retired ********?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Again with that semi-retired ********?

Yep.

 

[Citadel30]

He is just supposed to be a veteran batman. That's all we know.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Again with that semi-retired ********?

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Now onto something factual.

 

[Wise]

Again with that semi-retired ********?

I thought one of the producers confirmed that. The guy who was talking about drones.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I thought one of the producers confirmed that. The guy who was talking about drones.

That never happened, both of those are just rumors with nothing but speculation behind them.

 

[metaphysician]

Keep calm and call Batman.

Is that confirmed from higher res pictures? I can't read it at all, and its plenty blurry enough for people to see what they think they see.

( Beyond it obviously being a "Keep Calm And" poster, natch )

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I thought one of the producers confirmed that. The guy who was talking about drones.

Hitman producer, Daniel Alter said it; he isn't affiliated with this film, however.

 

[Guts]

Is that confirmed from higher res pictures? I can't read it at all, and its plenty blurry enough for people to see what they think they see.

( Beyond it obviously being a "Keep Calm And" poster, natch )

Well we can see that it's a Keep Calm and poster and there's a Batman symbol on there as well.

And other easter eggs in man of steel

 

[Marvin]

Again, it doesn't matter what the CIA would do in in real life. One can easily suspend disbelief over that because if you don't then it's game over. However, that doesn't give you charte blanche to say "oh also he's been an urban legend for 30 years. You accepted the other thing so accept this now". You have to draw the line somewhere. This is where I draw the line. The only way this can work is if they change the way Batman operates, which is frankly, lame and the exact opposite of what I would expect from Snyder.

Not one specific thing will prove something, but when you connect all the dots, you have something that is no longer a myth. Journalists can connect the dots, so can the police. So can regular people. People, you know, talk. People will see this Batman, get punched by this Batman, etc. At some point people will have to believe he actually exists when someone snaps a picture of him.

So all of a sudden every criminal will be declared insane because they all say they saw a Batman? And no one will think this actually means anything? Lol. You have a very intersting mind, Marvin

I said every criminal claiming they've seen Dracula doesn't stop dracula(and by extension vampires) from being an urban legend as far as I'm concerned. Never said two words about declaring them all insane, just that the public won't then confirm Vampires as anything more than a myth. Criminals tell stories. Like if every criminal declared they have been arrested by a crooked cop..."sure pal nice story, that's about the 40th time I've heard it this week, let's get to the logical truth of the matter at trial".

The problem here is what you are choosing to classify as "Charte Blanche". That would imply I'm suggesting something far and away ludicrous; f you are willing to swallow this clear stretch of logic then this expansion on the fantastical premise shouldn't be so hard. Never said now batman can open portals with his mind see; 'charte blanche'. Save your that line of discussion for when and where it actually applies.
That batman even works for 20 straight years is a massive stretch by all rights, that he can maintain a level of definitive exposure is hardly pushing that fun to it's breaking point. Maybe if I said that he's never been shot or bloodied...all this talk of the rules that are set up but can't be broken, who's breaking them?

That you want to keep discarding just how easy it would be for the present gov't to put a stop to (nolan level) batman...Even Bruce Tim dances on this idea with his incarnation of Amanda Waller and her reach by way of gov't intel. I find it more or less convenient to your point to suggest the CIA are something external to the material, when central intelligence seems fully involved in the batman mythos(and in TDKR) and better yet, would be in a more realistic reading of the material given just how much of his activities aren't limited to one state. That he could so easily get that jet around a major US city and not be flagged, pre or post 911...I digress, I'm not really in the business of poking holes in this stuff, that's the other side tbh.

I just don't think enough people grasp just what proposed by the concept of an urban legend or myth. People keep harping on the idea of sightings and evidence as if that works against such a thing, that's the crux of this entire discussion it seems. How can he stay a myth if people see his tank. The premise of the myth isn't undermined by sightings, it's often enforced by it. How many people have seen UFO's? How many youtube videos can be pulled up right now with a ufo sighting? Do these videos enforce the myth or the reality? If we had a reported sighting of the same UFO crafts in the same mid western city once a month for the next 12 months; you know the way people report sighting this unknown/unclaimed street tank, that wouldn't all of a sudden prove aliens any more real than they are believed to be now. If an 'alien' in a tuxedo showed up on Jimmy Kimmel tmr night and a massive audience 'saw' this, just how many people would believe aliens were real vs what the logic would argue about that guest spot...

Change the way batman operates? Nah, hollywood has already done plenty of that. I'm merely suggesting he goes back to the more hidden in shadows, only at night, never ending up on the 6pm news, ninja like approach he's seemingly grounded in. Again, this isn't Spiderman, the premise actually allows for this sort of approach(again, this isn't spiderman) organically, it's very much like Blade: Saving the world from Gods and Demons every weekend and still seen as just the 'Boogyman', by criminals, people and even vampires alike. No one said batman has to do his work without being seen by anyone, it's a matter of it never being taken further than just that.

Take everything you just said about people seeing and being punched by batman and journalists and normal people connecting the dots and wrap it around the issue of reported alien abductions and the people who 'you know talk' and the few journalists that actually try and editorialize it with a straight face, and you'll probably be able to imagine the smug face I'm making right now. In closing, circumstantial evidence and eye witness speculation can only go so far into proving something is anything more than a hoax or myth. I heard Elvis and Tupac are still alive, and get this, lot's of people have seen them, some even have it on(get this) camera. It's been what, decades of this now?
/discussion imo

Like with all things proposed, I won't hate on it till I see it fail. Rumor or otherwise.

 

[Nemeres]

If anything, the Jor-El one looks more like a Ga'hoole owl.