BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 98

[Iceman]

We need a new interview with Goyer to see how he really feels.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I doubt he hates J'onn. He was trying to be funny.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

Maybe it wasn't all that funny, but yes it WAS a joke.

wb probably planted that no joke policy because he's so bad at telling jokes.

 

[serendipity]

His concept of doing Martian Manhunter on-screen offended me much more than the stereotypical virgin joke.

And even though the comments about She-Hulk were terrible, the one thing he was right about was the existence of male wish fulfillment in superhero comics.

 

[zryson]

They should stay away from Doomsday for this movie.. the last movie was heavily criticized for having relentless action and thin plot, this time a better story is needed and over the top villain that is unstoppable (like Hulk) not really a great idea.

But, if BvS movie is looking to score even lower RT score the MOS, then..... I will say why not ?

When it comes to plot, we already know there will be a backlash against Superman. But how will he redeem himself in the eyes of the public? Through dying/battling Doomsday? Metallo? As for Batman, if the pictures are that of Wayne Manor, maybe he doesnt care much about the Manor as he did in previous movies? Perhaps the death of Robin really devastated him and he lives a very secluded life and only re-emerges due to Superman?

 

[mclay18]

I know the reasons Legendary left (creative clashes, et al), but it's going to be a bit odd not seeing their logo on this film compared to MOS.

 

[zryson]

I know the reasons Legendary left (creative clashes, et al), but it's going to be a bit odd not seeing their logo on this film compared to MOS.

BvS may turn out to be an odd movie for many reasons. Remember when people were convinced the anti-Superman theme wasnt going to feature in the movie? Based on the new pictures we know that will play a role. So what other leaks/speculation is right? Will Diana Prince be working for Luthor? What about Superman? Does he really die/go into exile? What of Bruce Wayne? It was speculated he and Diana have a relationship in the movie. Will any of the other leaks turn out to be accurate?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

BvS may turn out to be an odd movie for many reasons. Remember when people were convinced the anti-Superman theme wasnt going to feature in the movie? Based on the new pictures we know that will play a role. So what other leaks/speculation is right? Will Diana Prince be working for Luthor? What about Superman? Does he really die/go into exile? What of Bruce Wayne? It was speculated he and Diana have a relationship in the movie. Will any of the other leaks turn out to be accurate?

I'm somehow not worried about any of those other rumors. might have to do with the 95% chance that they're all pure BS.

 

[zryson]

I'm somehow not worried about any of those other rumors. might have to do with the 95% chance that they're all pure BS.

Well we know there is going to be an-anti Superman theme with people marching with signs. It was speculated that would happen, and that the anti-Superman theme would be very strong in BvS. I wonder how people who loved MOS, yet felt the criticisms were unwarranted will feel about that? Just how strongly is Snyder and Terrio going to carry that theme in the movie?

 

[fake]

Well we know there is going to be an-anti Superman theme with people marching with signs. It was speculated that would happen, and that the anti-Superman theme would be very strong in BvS. I wonder how people who loved MOS, yet felt the criticisms were unwarranted will feel about that? Just how strongly is Snyder and Terrio going to carry that theme in the movie?

The anti-Superman protests were confirmed on day 2 of filming. It isn't as if it was a major rumor anyone put out, the Superman statue was defaced by protestors on the 2nd day of filming. I don't think anyone here disputed that happening.

Everything else you listed is from the fake script which we have heard no basis for anywhere else. And irrespective of how much we think we know, we don't really know much at all. Saying that there is a strong anti-Superman theme in BvS is completely your speculation. They have shot (what we know of) 2 days of people protesting Superman. That may or may not be a "strong" anti-Superman theme. So when you say "Well we know there is going to be a strong anti Superman theme" what you mean to say is "Well, I think based on my conjecture drawn from certain spy pics, that there is going to be a strong anti-Superman theme."

 

[zryson]

The anti-Superman protests were confirmed on day 2 of filming. It isn't as if it was a major rumor anyone put out, the Superman statue was defaced by protestors on the 2nd day of filming. I don't think anyone here disputed that happening.

Everything else you listed is from the fake script which we have heard no basis for anywhere else. And irrespective of how much we think we know, we don't really know much at all. Saying that there is a strong anti-Superman theme in BvS is completely your speculation. They have shot (what we know of) 2 days of people protesting Superman. That may or may not be a "strong" anti-Superman theme.

If people take to the streets with anti-Superman signs, I would say that is a strong anti-Superman theme. But beyond that, I wonder how much more will it feature in BvS? Would it be limited to that one scene alone? Probably not, is my guess. Because Luthor will certainly play a role based on the Superman backlash too. And there is the Daily Planet. Its hard to imagine Lois Lane or other reporters not covering it. Either way I think its important to showcase Superman as a hero clearly in the movie, and to have him redeemed by the end of the movie; not having a question mark lingering over him about whether he is a hero/force for good.

 

[WBwins]

Really looking forward to the Anti-Superman theme.Loved it in Superman Birthright how it showed Superman Gradually winning the trust of the people.

 

[zryson]

I liked JL:War even with the poor characterization of half the heroes. If they can change that in Throne of Atlantis and keep improving the action it has everything to be a great film.

Judging from the trailer, Throne of Atlantis looks to be much of the same as Justice League War. The voice direction lately has been pretty bad, and some of the designs just look horrible (WW in particular has been reduced to a romance with Superman.) As for the jokes in the trailer, once more they fall flat. Its kind of sad that the new DC animated movies are only a pale imitation of the greatness they once had.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Aren't we forgetting someone who definitely needs to be in Lego form?

Spoiler

Yeah, he does.

I'm not saying I disagree but I think he's at Marvel currently.

Timm has still be at DC longer then Johns. Timm deserves it.

Timm deserves it, so does Dini, even if he's at Marvel now.

 

[Iceman]

The anti Superman thing will be interesting for the general audience who haven't seen much of that from the boy scout. Should get their attention.

 

[dhandler01]

Judging from the trailer, Throne of Atlantis looks to be much of the same as Justice League War. The voice direction lately has been pretty bad, and some of the designs just look horrible (WW in particular has been reduced to a romance with Superman.) As for the jokes in the trailer, once more they fall flat. Its kind of sad that the new DC animated movies are only a pale imitation of the greatness they once had.

Uhh you could not be more wrong about Wonder Woman. She was the primary attacker in the fight against Darkseid (she stabbed him in the eye blinding it) and as far as I know the DTVs havent covered their romance. So how is it she has been reduced to his romantic interest if they havent started dating yet? Because she thought he was strong and attractive? That is a bit sexist dont you think?

I think the DTVs have been pretty decent. Not great, but most of them arent going back to the beginning. Outside of the Superman/Batman movie they all have flaws. (so does that one... really hate Batgod flipping Superman like he is Common Thug #2 but that is another argument)

 

[Naked Shia]

Uhh you could not be more wrong about Wonder Woman. She was the primary attacker in the fight against Darkseid (she stabbed him in the eye blinding it) and as far as I know the DTVs havent covered their romance. So how is it she has been reduced to his romantic interest if they havent started dating yet? because she thought he was strong?

I think the DTVs have been pretty decent. Not great, but most of them arent going back to the beginning. Outside of the Superman/Batman movie they all have flaws. (so does that one... really hate Batgod flipping Superman like he is Common Thug #2 but that is another argument)

Don't you know we should have everything WB/DC? So even though there was nothing more than a hint at romance, the romance was too much, and wonder woman is nothing more than an object.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Well we know there is going to be an-anti Superman theme with people marching with signs. It was speculated that would happen, and that the anti-Superman theme would be very strong in BvS. I wonder how people who loved MOS, yet felt the criticisms were unwarranted will feel about that? Just how strongly is Snyder and Terrio going to carry that theme in the movie?

How should we feel about it ? Bad ? That Snyder and Terrio "caved" to all the hatred and are now "fixing" MoS through BvS ?

I for one don't think this anti-Superman movement has anything to do with criticisms of MoS. Instead it just seems like a natural progression of the story and an interesting path to go down.

Yes, there was a lot of death and destruction in Metropolis, and yes I expected it to have repercussions in the sequel. Haha, I doubt protesters will have banners saying "Clark how could you let your father get sucked up by a tornado" So the criticism HAS to be about Metropolis.

 

[zryson]

Uhh you could not be more wrong about Wonder Woman. She was the primary attacker in the fight against Darkseid (she stabbed him in the eye blinding it) and as far as I know the DTVs havent covered their romance. So how is it she has been reduced to his romantic interest if they havent started dating yet? Because she thought he was strong and attractive? That is a bit sexist dont you think?

I think the DTVs have been pretty decent. Not great, but most of them arent going back to the beginning. Outside of the Superman/Batman movie they all have flaws. (so does that one... really hate Batgod flipping Superman like he is Common Thug #2 but that is another argument)

Wonder Woman in Justice League War ranks as one of the all-time worst depictions I have ever seen for Diana/WW. Coupled with the dialogue, other heroes fawning over her and her and Superman having eyes for each other it was just too much. That's not to say the other heroes in JL: War were fantastic because they werent. WB used to be cutting-edge, really delivered great animated movies but some of the recent efforts are weak and kind of boring.

 

[zryson]

How should we feel about it ? Bad ? That Snyder and Terrio "caved" to all the hatred and are now "fixing" MoS through BvS ?

I for one don't think this anti-Superman movement has anything to do with criticisms of MoS. Instead it just seems like a natural progression of the story and an interesting path to go down.

Yes, there was a lot of death and destruction in Metropolis, and yes I expected it to have repercussions in the sequel. Haha, I doubt protesters will have banners saying "Clark how could you let your father get sucked up by a tornado" So the criticism HAS to be about Metropolis.

I think the backlash was definitely stronger than what they anticipated. As recent articles have pointed out, Snyder may well come out and say well this is the kind of direction we were going to go in anyway, but it could also be a cover for some creative decisions which they made with MOS and under-estimated the impact of. Either way, what will matter tremendously is how well the movie balances its themes this time around.

 

[SofNascimento]

Talking about the comics, the SMWW romance began pretty well in their own book. The first 6 issues told a great story with memorable moments for both character (although some people would say it was Superman centered). Alas, after that Wonder Woman was utterly sidelined and served little purpose in the Doomed event, which took several issues of their book. If you ask me, DC should have allowed Azzarello tell his story with Wonder Woman, which would probably involve a romance with Orion. And that's a couple I think could be awesome.

About War, Wonder Woman was the spearhead in the battle against Darkseid but she didn't had much personality. She just beat stuff up in an awesome fashion. And that was ok for me, I don't expect much more than that.

 

[zryson]

Talking about the comics, the SMWW romance began pretty well in their own book. The first 6 issues told a great story with memorable moments for both character (although some people would say it was Superman centered). Alas, after that Wonder Woman was utterly sidelined and served little purpose in the Doomed event, which took several issues of their book. If you ask me, DC should have allowed Azzarello tell his story with Wonder Woman, which would probably involve a romance with Orion. And that's a couple I think could be awesome.

About War, Wonder Woman was the spearhead in the battle against Darkseid but she didn't had much personality. She just beat stuff up in an awesome fashion. And that was ok for me, I don't expect much more than that.

The Doomed storyline has been pretty weak overall. As for the Superman/WW romance (which has been characterized through some very weak writing), and perhaps a new Crisis-event coming next year and pre-New 52 universe plots returning, I hope one of the first things DC does away with is the romance and puts Clark and Lois back together.

 

[HaplessHenchman]

I don't understand the controversy with the inclusion of the SM protesters?

Snyder has said from Day 1 that the events in MOS would affect what happens in BM vs SM. To find that some ill informed people in that universe would take a dislike to an all powerful alien living secretly in their midst seems like a natural thing to occur. Plus, I bet they are spurred on by Luthor. Again, no surprise.

 

[Naked Shia]

some people will use everything to bash this movie and its predecessor.

 

[Bathead]

We need a new interview with Goyer to see how he really feels.

No, we don't.