Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - Part 10

[Human Torch]

I think ultimately there's a reason why Sara works so much better as BC/Arrow's love interest.
They admittedly had a thing (that was revealed to be somewhat more than the simple "fling" that we originally thought) going on.So it's not like she's just been brought into the picture.

She already has similar experiences as Ollie and is already on the same path.Ollie and Laurel have literally nothing in common,apart from her "legal do-gooder" routine from the first season.(this is another reason Felicity shippers are probably going to be disappointed in the end)

They already have the "Side-kick under the Miricuro trying to learn how to control their powers" with Roy.They are NOT going to do that with Laurel (unless she turns villain and works with Slade) So she'd have to take an even longer path to BC status than the already long and painful one we have now.

I don't see how Laurel as the BC works at all anymore at this point.

 

[Nathan]

It would have worked better if she had been platonic friends with him before the boat incident, as you said.

If she would have been platonic with him before the boat accident, that would have been even better. They should have just had Oliver date Sara, a relationship Laurel doesn't approve of, because she knows what a dawg Oliver is. None of that stupid dating one sister, then cheating on her with the other crap.

The events unfold like normal, the accident happens, Sara "dies", and when Oliver comes back, Laurel is naturally angry at him. But with the whole cheating element gone, one of the biggest acts of betrayal, it's a lot more forgivable when Laurel eventually develops feelings for him, because she knows he's a changed man. And even then, I would try to keep it on the down low, and not have her want his babies immediately. It's a romance that should take more than one Season to develop, and Laurel shouldn't have neon signs pointed at her, that scream "Obvious destined Lover over here!".

 

[regnak]

The added detail that Laurel knew Sarah liked Oliver first...what was the point of that? WHY did that detail need to be added? It only made Laurel more unlikeable, and I have no idea why they would do that, unless they truly are making her a villain (which would honestly be kind of cool).

Maybe it is to show that Sara wasn't really sorry about what she did and still isn't. She makes an excuse(which might not even be true) on the island whereas Oliver was repentant in his island scenes last year. Also in the present we didn't see her apologize to Laurel and after she realizes how bad off Laurel is she goes and sleeps with Oliver again. It's not like her parents didn't want to spend time with her.

When Oliver returned he acted repentant and took all the hate directed at him. Sara just goes and does Oliver again. If the show runners remember S1(which is iffy I admit) that might mean a lot.

If they had wanted to portray Sara as penitent they should have done something like this after the glass throwing:


Sara, " Laurel I know what I did to you was unforgivable. In spite of that I will try to earn back your love and never hurt you again."

That would have shown she was being like S1 Oliver, instead she went and did him in the Arrow cave.(and does that have the Olicity fans in a frenzy!)

 

[Nathan]

So you pretty much ignored the entire portion where Sara said that Laurel had every right to be angry, told her to place blame on her and not her parents, and also actually said the words "I'm sorry.".

After she gets thrown out, she goes to the only other person she knows, who actually knows what she's going through. And then it's not like she initiated the sex. It was our good ol' horndog Ollie that went in for the kiss. And what does it even matter that they had sex? Ollie and Laurel aren't a thing anymore, and the show has made it pretty clear that nothing is going to happen between them at the moment.

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe it is to show that Sara wasn't really sorry about what she did and still isn't. She makes an excuse(which might not even be true) on the island whereas Oliver was repentant in his island scenes last year. Also in the present we didn't see her apologize to Laurel and after she realizes how bad off Laurel is she goes and sleeps with Oliver again. It's not like her parents didn't want to spend time with her.

When Oliver returned he acted repentant and took all the hate directed at him. Sara just goes and does Oliver again. If the show runners remember S1(which is iffy I admit) that might mean a lot.

If they had wanted to portray Sara as penitent they should have done something like this after the glass throwing:


Sara, " Laurel I know what I did to you was unforgivable. In spite of that I will try to earn back your love and never hurt you again."

That would have shown she was being like S1 Oliver, instead she went and did him in the Arrow cave.(and does that have the Olicity fans in a frenzy!)

But Ollie, in taking the simultaneous action of sleeping with Sara, is also showing he's not really penitent. He's not acting very differently from when he went and slept with Laurel after he knew how Tommy felt about it and saw them in the window.

So yeah, I don't really think Ollie is anymore pentient than Sara ultimately. And besides, it's not like Sara was doing it deliberately. They were both caught up in the heat of the moment. Both are as responsible as each other, and Ollie must've known that it would reopen the wounds with Laurel again. Showing up to dinner at the Lances with Sara in the next episode isn't exactly helping matters either.

 

[regnak]

It matters because it's how this started in the first place. And I didn't hear I'm sorry, she obviously didn't say it very clearly. I get that she is sorry her ex poisoned Laurel and kidnapped her mother, the rest not so much. If she was sorry she wouldn't be doing Oliver again until she was reconciled with Laurel. She has her parent and Sin she can talk to.

 

[JC00]

So you pretty much ignored the entire portion where Sara said that Laurel had every right to be angry, told her to place blame on her and not her parents, and also actually said the words "I'm sorry.".

After she gets thrown out, she goes to the only other person she knows, who actually knows what she's going through. And then it's not like she initiated the sex. It was our good ol' horndog Ollie that went in for the kiss. And what does it even matter that they had sex? Ollie and Laurel aren't a thing anymore, and the show has made it pretty clear that nothing is going to happen between them at the moment.

Laurel fanboys are the worst.

 

[regnak]

But Ollie, in taking the simultaneous action of sleeping with Sara, is also showing he's not really penitent. He's not acting very differently from when he went and slept with Laurel after he knew how Tommy felt about it and saw them in the window.

So yeah, I don't really think Ollie is anymore pentient than Sara ultimately. And besides, it's not like Sara was doing it deliberately. They were both caught up in the heat of the moment. Both are as responsible as each other, and Ollie must've known that it would reopen the wounds with Laurel again. Showing up to dinner at the Lances with Sara in the next episode isn't exactly helping matters either.

Yes, I did mention that Oliver repeated the biggest mistake of his life in my 1st post in the episode thread. It's a major character regression and I was shocked the show would do something that makes their star look so unlikeable. I am rooting for Slade to kill them both.

 

[regnak]

Laurel fanboys are the worst.

If you want the worst look in a mirror.

 

[Nathan]

Well, it's obvious that like Laurel, you don't really care what Sara has to say. Also, there are many things she can't talk about with her parents or even Sin. There are too many gory details, that only someone like Ollie can understand and relate to.

 

[regnak]

Well, it's obvious that like Laurel, you don't really care what Sara has to say. Also, there are many things she can't talk about with her parents or even Sin. There are too many gory details, that only someone like Ollie can understand and relate to.

Even people on the everyone hates Laurel Arrow board(TWOP) have been posting things like this:

Oh and I don't dislike Sara sleeping with Oliver because of any possible future Olicity 'ship. I dislike it 'cos Laurel is Sara's sister. She made that mistake once before, and look at the fallout. I can understand why Oliver and Sara got together given their history and trauma of the episode in general, but it was an impulsive thing to do and it will probably hurt the Lance family further. To err is human and all that, but to err twice in the same way. It's going to make the forgiveness harder.





and this


It's going to be shortlived and angsty, I'm sure. My problems with it stem more from what it does to the character of Sara than from what it does to Oliver or any other love interests he might have.


In the meantime, I want to see her reconnect with her family, and her decision to bone Oliver again makes that so much harder. Does she lie to them or does she tell them she's seeing him? Either way, they'll surely find out. And Laurel will be hurt even more. I don't care much about Laurel, but it seems very selfish of Sara to act this way. And then what do Quentin and Dinah think of it? That Sara comes back into town and immediately hooks up with her sister's ex again? Can't imagine them being too impressed. Which then leads me on to lamenting the potential loss of that newfound respect Quentin seems to have for Oliver. I liked that he was capable of overcoming his prejudices against Oliver and seeing him in a new light, but I don't see how he could continue to when he has to deal with Oliver coming between his daughters again.




there is a lot more in that vein but you should get the point.

 

[JC00]

If you want the worst look in a mirror.

 

[regnak]

I'm impressed, only not.

 

[regnak]

And here is another one from the same page:


And Sara's part is this is even worse in my opinion which sucks because I really like Sara. Good or bad, Laurel is her sister and Sara already screwed her over once by screwing Oliver. Now, because Sara didn't get the reaction she wanted from Laurel she runs off and does it again. It would be one thing if Sara's entire family reacted badly and she felt she had no one to turn to thus running to Oliver. But that is not the case here. Quentin and Dinah are pretty much floating on clouds about Sara being back. So Sara's "but I gave Laurel six years to get over it" crap is just that... crap. And the thing is I don't think Laurel's reaction to Sara's resurrection was so out of line. Laurel's already dealing with a substance abuse problem (or rather not dealing with it) and in the space of a day or so finds out she was poisoned and her mother was kidnapped by her not so dead sister's ex-girlfriend (Laurel has every right to be pissed about this) and oh yeah Sara's alive. I'll give Laurel a pass here on her reaction to it all. And not just because Laurel is so much more interesting when she's throwing exploding drinks at people.

And damn this show because they actually have me defending Laurel who I hate and not liking Oliver and Sara. I think the only way to fix this mess is for Slade to put on the mask and put an arrow through the whole rotten lot of them. Then he and Moira can take over the city and spend their days toying with all the little people just for ****s and giggles.

 

[JC00]

Oh no, two consenting adults that shared a horrific experience and just came from family problems hooked up on an impulse

Shame on them.

Also I don't care what people on another forum think.

 

[regnak]

Oh no, two consenting adults that shared a horrific experience and just came from family problems hooked up on an impulsive.

Shame on them.

Also I don't care what people on another forum think.

It puts the lie to it being only people who like Laurel thinking what Sara did was wrong. Of course that point flew right over your head didn't it?

 

[Human Torch]

I don't quite get whats so wrong with Sara dating Ollie again?I mean,as far as I remember Laurel and Ollie haven't been an "item" (beyond the ill timed "hook-up" in front of Tommy) since he came back from the island. If people want to think a relationship between Ollie and Sara constitutes "He done her wrong" they should really rewatch the season more closely.

 

[Nathan]

There hasn't even been really any hint of a potential future romance, between Ollie and Laurel, in all of Season 2 so far. Since the start, they made it clear that there can't be anything between them anymore. From there on, Ollie was always concerned about her like a friend. He didn't even display real jealously when he thought Laurel and Blood were dating. Heck, he was way more jealous about the whole Felicity/Barry thing. And with Sara, he's always shown an extra amount of concern, getting angry when she disappeared on him, even telling her he needs her.

Whatever there was between Ollie and Laurel, it's finished. Well, at least on Ollie's side. Laurel though, well, she'd probably still throw her panties at him, when he gives her a smile. Everyone has pretty much moved on, only Laurel is stuck in the past and puts the blame on her sister. Sure, the family broke apart, but everyone eventually got their act together. Her dad got sober, her mom comes running when she hears her daughter is hospitalized. Heck, everyone comes running when Laurel is in need of help.

The sad thing about Laurel is, she was in a good place way before everyone else. During the 5 years when Oliver and Sara were gone, her parents divorced, and her father became and alcoholic, she became a respectable lawyer that helped people in need. Over time, people slowly got better, but Laurel started to spiral. And she is largely responsible for most of it.

Starting with the death of Tommy, she simply couldn't cope with the fact that it was her fault. And since then, it's always been a pity party. Poor Laurel, everyone is against her, everyone is leaving her, even though it's complete bull****. Oliver and her father were there for her whenever she needed help. Help that she outright refused to receive. Being confrontational and pretty much treating Oliver and her father like ****. Simply doing one wrong thing after the other. Again and again. But it's still not her fault. Well, at least she eventually admitted that Tommy's death was her fault.

Anyway, she can blame Sara for past events, and for the whole Assassin incident, but she can't blame Sara for the hot mess that she is now, especially after everyone else got their act together again.

 

[JC00]

There hasn't even been really any hint of a potential future romance, between Ollie and Laurel, in all of Season 2 so far. Since the start, they made it clear that there can't be anything between them anymore. From there on, Ollie was always concerned about her like a friend. He didn't even display real jealously when he thought Laurel and Blood were dating. Heck, he was way more jealous about the whole Felicity/Barry thing. And with Sara, he's always shown an extra amount of concern, getting angry when she disappeared on him, even telling her he needs her.

Whatever there was between Ollie and Laurel, it's finished. Well, at least on Ollie's side. Laurel though, well, she'd probably still throw her panties at him, when he gives her a smile. Everyone has pretty much moved on, only Laurel is stuck in the past and puts the blame on her sister. Sure, the family broke apart, but everyone eventually got their act together. Her dad got sober, her mom comes running when she hears her daughter is hospitalized. Heck, everyone comes running when Laurel is in need of help.

The sad thing about Laurel is, she was in a good place way before everyone else. During the 5 years when Oliver and Sara were gone, her parents divorced, and her father became and alcoholic, she became a respectable lawyer that helped people in need. Over time, people slowly got better, but Laurel started to spiral. And she is largely responsible for most of it.

Starting with the death of Tommy, she simply couldn't cope with the fact that it was her fault. And since then, it's always been a pity party. Poor Laurel, everyone is against her, everyone is leaving her, even though it's complete bull****. Oliver and her father were there for her whenever she needed help. Help that she outright refused to receive. Being confrontational and pretty much treating Oliver and her father like ****. Simply doing one wrong thing after the other. Again and again. But it's still not her fault. Well, at least she eventually admitted that Tommy's death was her fault.

Anyway, she can blame Sara for past events, and for the whole Assassin incident, but she can't blame Sara for the hot mess that she is now, especially after everyone else got their act together again.

 

[herolee10]

Honestly, given this show's history... I'm not willing to place my chips in thinking that Oliver will end up with any female character until the series finale takes place.

This show has a habit of setting Oliver up with someone, only for some tragic thing to happen later on that breaks him away from that person.

Oliver has more love interests and booty calls than any comic book character that I've seen in a live action format.

bad place, the guy could end up being single when the show goes out or be with someone that we don't even know about as of yet.


In regards to Laurel, well I've always said on how it was weird, and somewhat funny, that she was placed at the far left corner of the Season 2 poster, let alone placed alongside Slade who is undoubtedly this season's big bad villain.

And out of all the characters in that poster, she does emit the biggest "I'm a villain" vibe, more so than Manu's shot in the picture.

I'm not saying that she will be a villain or that she is a villain, but the producers are doing a piss poor job if they're trying to get more people to like her.

 

[Nathan]

Honestly, given this show's history... I'm not willing to place my chips in thinking that Oliver will end up with any female character until the series finale takes place.

This show has a habit of setting Oliver up with someone, only for some tragic thing to happen later on that breaks him away from that person.

Oliver has more love interests and booty calls than any comic book character that I've seen in a live action format.

bad place, the guy could end up being single when the show goes out or be with someone that we don't even know about as of yet.

You know, I actually hope that he doesn't end up with Sara right now. Sure, they had sex, but Sara could tell him that it was nice, but that it was just a heat of the moment thing. And that she doesn't plan to go steady with Oliver yet, because she has to clear the air with Laurel first.

I really hope they put their plans for a relationship on the back burner, and that their night together was a slip.

 

[kryptonjedi]

http://13thdimension.com/caity-lotz-on-the-stunning-developments-on-arrow-tonight-big-spoilers/

Caity Lotz: There’s some fun stuff planned with Felicity’s character. I think it is a bit of a transition for Felicity to have Sara being in Ollie’s life and Ollie having “this girl.” It changes the dynamic between Oliver and Sara because they finally have someone that really understands what they’ve been through together. But there is still a lot of external things that make that difficult.
With Laurel, it is a little messed up — you can only imagine how difficult that would be to see that happen. And I understand how she would be not so happy about it.
At the same time, for Oliver and Sara, they have been denied so much happiness in their life and have given up so much for everyone else. They’ve never really been able to have love. I think for them to get this kind of chance, both characters really do deserve it. Even with all the drama it might bring.

 

[Boy Scout]

There hasn't even been really any hint of a potential future romance, between Ollie and Laurel, in all of Season 2 so far. Since the start, they made it clear that there can't be anything between them anymore.

I pray it stays that way. I like Laurel and I like Oliver, but I don't like them together.

Whatever there was between Ollie and Laurel, it's finished. Well, at least on Ollie's side. Laurel though, well, she'd probably still throw her panties at him, when he gives her a smile.

Sigh. I wish I knew how to quit you.

Starting with the death of Tommy, she simply couldn't cope with the fact that it was her fault. And since then, it's always been a pity party.

Laurel has not been in her right mind all season. She's gone from grieving to abusing drugs in the span of a few months. She is hardly in a position to make rational decisions. I'm not saying her behavior has been stellar or should be excused, but it doesn't seem like too many people are making an effort to look at things from her point of view.

 

[Gaz0680]

And here is another one from the same page:


And Sara's part is this is even worse in my opinion which sucks because I really like Sara. Good or bad, Laurel is her sister and Sara already screwed her over once by screwing Oliver. Now, because Sara didn't get the reaction she wanted from Laurel she runs off and does it again. It would be one thing if Sara's entire family reacted badly and she felt she had no one to turn to thus running to Oliver. But that is not the case here. Quentin and Dinah are pretty much floating on clouds about Sara being back. So Sara's "but I gave Laurel six years to get over it" crap is just that... crap. And the thing is I don't think Laurel's reaction to Sara's resurrection was so out of line.

I respectfully disagree here. No one can deny Sara and Oliver were very much in the wrong when they hooked up whilst Ollie was dating Laurel. Ollie was the one in the relationship and he seemed to be the instigator with Sara, so really more of the blame lies with Ollie.
Sara however was also being selfish and very much in the wrong.

That said, it was 6 years ago. Laurel and Oliver Broke up. Sara was for all counts considered dead. Laurel's reaction definitely WAS out of line. Despite having a right to be angry with Sara for sleeping with Ollie back then, Laurel had no right to blame Sara for her whole life. Laurel has caused enough of her own problems and it was definitely over the top for her to say Because it's Sara and that Sara stole her life. That isn't true. A great deal of what Laurel is blaming Sara for is ultimately circumstance and not any fault on Sara's part.
The marriage breakup of lance and Dinah wasn't Sara's fault.
Sara had very valid reasons for not telling her family she was alive given the power and influence of the League of assassins. Sara thought she was doing the right thing to protect her family there...even if you disagree with her choice, it would be unfair to be too harsh on her for that.
Laurel not being given the chance to let go of her anger toward Sara because she was presumed dead was again circumstance and not Sara's fault.
Had the Gambit not gone down, but Laurel found out, this is the most likely thing:
Laurel leaves Oliver, is furious at her sister and unleashes her anger on Sara and then either never forgives her and the two have virtually no contact OR Laurel eventually comes to forgive Sara and let's go of the anger.

Like I said, the affair was Sara's (and Ollie's) fault, but the circumstances surrounding it and the lost opportunity for Laurel to deal with that hurt and anger are not their fault. That part is circumstance.

Laurel's substance abuse problems are her own doing and Sara does not deserve the blame for that. Laurel has just shown to not have good coping skills with life. She is a mess and has not been remotely together since Tommy died.

 

[Paradox1]

I don't care if someone has been broken up 6 years or 20. You don't hook up or date your ex's sister. It's just morally wrong I don't know how anyone could look at me with a straight face it's okay. Diggle couldn't date his brothers wife and he's dead.