Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - Part 13

[Fans of Reilly]

Happy to see there's a new Count Vertigo. Now, if they can do the same with Huntress somehow...

The only way they can do that is killing the current version and introducing the Helena Wayne version I do not think the show ready for that type of another universe story line

 

[protocida]

With a casting like that I wonder if Count Vertigo will be the Big Bad (or ONE of the Big Bads) of this season.

Stormare is supposed to be a recurring character in The Blacklist, so I don't think so.

 

[Lencho01]

The only way they can do that is killing the current version and introducing the Helena Wayne version I do not think the show ready for that type of another universe story line

They don't need to introduce her right away.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Saw on FB yesterday a fan made Stephen a dope hockey jersey and he asked him to make an extra to auction off and donate to the guys fave charity. Such a cool dude

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

The only way they can do that is killing the current version and introducing the Helena Wayne version I do not think the show ready for that type of another universe story line

Have you seen the Flash pilot?

 

[Rorschach2012]

New Count Vertigo.
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Arrow-Vertigo-Peter-Stormare-1083968.aspx

They got Stormare for this!?!?!??! holy ****.

this is fantastic news. they listened to fans, thats why they killed off the first lame Vertigo

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't think the first Count was lame, he just wasn't the same character. As a sociopath with a pain-inducing drug, he came off as very threatening.

 

[Boy Scout]

I disagree. He had the potential to be threatening, but the actor was too OTT.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Hey Guys -- I appreciate all the support and enthusiasm, but not everything I post is a cryptic indicator that I'm going to be in Batman V Superman. I'm not going to be in Batman V Superman.

good news. keep the universes separate. I want the Arrow/Flash universe to grow without depending on story beats from MOS and BvS

PLUS

I wouldn't mind seeing a bigger name as the movie Flash

The Arrow/Flash verse should be allowed to introduce as many charactes as they need to. they'd be prevented from doing that if they were burdened by the Snyder continuity

 

[Nathan]

I'm completely fine with keeping the show and Movies separate. I only hope that we'll eventually get TV versions of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. That Flash easter egg pretty much confirms that one of the big three already exists in the universe.

 

[Fincher]

Conventional wisdom seems to be to not have the same character star in both TV and film, because the audience might not pay to see them in the theater if they can see them at home for free. Yeah, Superman Returns came out during Smallville's run, but that was technically just Clark Kent in the show. Gotham can exist because it's Gordon-centered and you have Bruce Wayne instead of Batman. If that Green Lantern / Flash film rumor is true, I suspect it's not only because GL needs to be rehabilated, but also because WB doesn't have faith in Flash's ability to headline his own movie when another version already has his own show.

All of which is to say that if Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman do show up on TV, it'll likely be as characters in the Flash series rather than their own properties. Unless movie Wonder Woman fails and they go back to the drawing board.

I'm also in favor of the TV shows being separate from the movies, but I'd go further and say that I'd rather Flash never have been attached to Arrow.

 

[greenlantern248]

Conventional wisdom seems to be to not have the same character star in both TV and film, because the audience might not pay to see them in the theater if they can see them at home for free. Yeah, Superman Returns came out during Smallville's run, but that was technically just Clark Kent in the show. Gotham can exist because it's Gordon-centered and you have Bruce Wayne instead of Batman. If that Green Lantern / Flash film rumor is true, I suspect it's not only because GL needs to be rehabilated, but also because WB doesn't have faith in Flash's ability to headline his own movie when another version already has his own show.

All of which is to say that if Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman do show up on TV, it'll likely be as characters in the Flash series rather than their own properties. Unless movie Wonder Woman fails and they go back to the drawing board.

I'm also in favor of the TV shows being separate from the movies, but I'd go further and say that I'd rather Flash never have been attached to Arrow.

I understand what you're saying but you know that the Trinity will never show up on Arrow or The Flash because of the film embargo.
With Superman Returns it was different, because you're right Smallville was a show about Clark and not Superman.

That's why I find it odd that with film embargo, WB execs are letting The Flash have his own series, unless they have something up their sleeves.

As far as the general audience goes don't you think it would be more confused of having two different Barry Allens on screen?
I think having the same actor play the same character on TV and film will make people who don't go to the movies or don't watch either of the series to maybe go to the movies or watch the shows. To see where the story will take them, which leads me to my concern.

If they do connect the TV universe and the film universe the writing would have to connect as well.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I'm not sure how you think there are still embargoes on any characters. We have Batman in a movie next year and Gotham going on air.

And people don't give the GA enough credit. Having two different versions of a character on TV and film isn't that confusing. They do it with Norman Bates and Hannibal.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm not sure how you think there are still embargoes on any characters. We have Batman in a movie next year and Gotham going on air.

And people don't give the GA enough credit. Having two different versions of a character on TV and film isn't that confusing. They do it with Norman Bates and Hannibal.

But, in fairness...

New Batman and Gotham TV series = two completely different eras for the character
Norman Bates = Series is a prequel, and it's been over half a century since the film
Hannibal = Over a decade since Anthony Hopkins last portrayed the character

I want seperate universes for film and TV too, but...

 

[Fincher]

I think having the same actor play the same character on TV and film will make people who don't go to the movies or don't watch either of the series to maybe go to the movies or watch the shows. To see where the story will take them, which leads me to my concern.

Or it could make them think, "I won't see this movie, it's just for the fans of that show I don't watch." It depends on how inclined people are to pay to jump into a story (loosely speaking) in the middle. With The Avengers it worked out for Marvel, because people who watched Iron Man 1 & 2 went ahead and watched The Avengers even though they might not have seen Thor and vice versa, so it made more money than any of the solo films. With this...I'm not sure either way.

Edit: By this I mean the Flash movie, not Justice League, although I suppose people seeing him in JL first could make a difference.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

But, in fairness...

New Batman and Gotham TV series = two completely different eras for the character
Norman Bates = Series is a prequel, and it's been over half a century since the film
Hannibal = Over a decade since Anthony Hopkins last portrayed the character

I want seperate universes for film and TV too, but...

Eh. People still aren't that stupid to not understand the difference.

Nobody got confused when the Arkham games, which became a pop culture phenomenon in their own right, weren't the same as the Nolan movies.

 

[Paradox1]

I think the problem that can arise from having separate universes in live action. Is when one version is more beloved than the other. For example in a Batman movie they use Deathstroke as a baddy but it's not Manu. I'm sure I'd still see it but not having him as that character would create an unnecessary hurdle in my eyes.

 

[Fincher]

Manu would be hard to beat.

To use an example from another thread, imagine if Sara were the TV Black Canary and Laurel were the movie Black Canary. It's enough to give movie executives nightmares.

 

[greenlantern248]

I'm not sure how you think there are still embargoes on any characters. We have Batman in a movie next year and Gotham going on air.

And people don't give the GA enough credit. Having two different versions of a character on TV and film isn't that confusing. They do it with Norman Bates and Hannibal.

Oh I'm 99% positive there still is a embargo on film characters, if there wasn't Arrow would have already mentioned Batman and Wayne Enterprise or LexCorp as being rival businesses.

We all know Smallville had an embargo. Yes Superman Returns and Smallville were on at the same time. Even though one dealt with Superman and one with just Clark we all saw how the movie turned out. Like Fincher was saying about Flash. With Smallville there was probably a bunch of TV viewers that didn't go see the movie cause it wasn't the Clark for them.

Putting a point in you're favor for a split universe Fincher. You mentioned that people watching The Avengers was a success whether or not they saw Thor or Cap. That is true, then when they brought AoS to ABC it had huge ratings for episode 1, then it died right down. Except for episodes that dealt with the movies.

Now Fincher the last thing you said seems more in favor of a shared universe. Like your example here is another one.
Let's say the cast Green Arrow in the Justice League movie and it's not Stephen Amell. How would you feel?

 

[Lencho01]

Eh. People still aren't that stupid to not understand the difference.

Nobody got confused when the Arkham games, which became a pop culture phenomenon in their own right, weren't the same as the Nolan movies.

Yep. And there are two different Sherlocks on TV too.

 

[jonathancrane]

Oh I'm 99% positive there still is a embargo on film characters, if there wasn't Arrow would have already mentioned Batman and Wayne Enterprise or LexCorp as being rival businesses.

We all know Smallville had an embargo. Yes Superman Returns and Smallville were on at the same time. Even though one dealt with Superman and one with just Clark we all saw how the movie turned out. Like Fincher was saying about Flash. With Smallville there was probably a bunch of TV viewers that didn't go see the movie cause it wasn't the Clark for them.

Putting a point in you're favor for a split universe Fincher. You mentioned that people watching The Avengers was a success whether or not they saw Thor or Cap. That is true, then when they brought AoS to ABC it had huge ratings for episode 1, then it died right down. Except for episodes that dealt with the movies.

Now Fincher the last thing you said seems more in favor of a shared universe. Like your example here is another one.
Let's say the cast Green Arrow in the Justice League movie and it's not Stephen Amell. How would you feel?

Don't be so certain...

 

[Nathan]

After name dropping one of Batman's greatest villains countless times, actively trying to get Nightwing on the show, and a certain easter egg in the Flash Pilot, I don't think there's much of an embargo on the big characters anymore. I think they are busy trying to figure out how to introduce these characters, in a way that it makes sense, and without having them overshadow the cast of Arrow.

They'll probably be careful with introducing the bigger heroes in the show, because at a certain point, you'll wonder why not every crisis is a cross-over event. Every time a city is in danger of getting leveled, the audience would probably expect Superman to show up at any moment, to lend a hand.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I think the problem that can arise from having separate universes in live action. Is when one version is more beloved than the other. For example in a Batman movie they use Deathstroke as a baddy but it's not Manu. I'm sure I'd still see it but not having him as that character would create an unnecessary hurdle in my eyes.

Or maybe most people who were not watching the show before weren't going out their way to see the TV show after a movie anyways. It's not like the Ninja turtles movie is going to cause a sudden rise in cartoon viewership. Kids don't give a cap if their are two versions. Same way we didn't with the old movie and toon.

 

[godisawesome]

Thank you for brining up the TMNT parallel. That's probably the most direct argument for allowing multiple versions of the same characters to exist at the same time across different media. And it seems to me the only character to ever have any consistent application of the embargoing idea is Batman-the most popular embargoes against characters attached to different franchises has been Batman's villains in Justice League and the canceling of the Bruce Wayne pilot in favor of Smallville.

I think the embargo was less because of a believe that audiences would get confused and more out of a fear of diluting the product, but that the rule only really applied to the main moneymaker of Batman. And the later prevention of his appearance on Smallvile makes sense as well. Look at what happened with Green Arrow; he became a major character and plot mover. How much more focus and attention would a Bruce Wayne character have had on the show with Smallville's heavy handed approach to the mythos of their star?

And I do believe that the only embargo now is a practical one of "show us that you can do the character with Justice, and that they won't steal the show from your stars, or no dice." Because let's face it, Batman could take over a show like Arrow if they weren't careful, and even Nightwing or Harley Quinn could do the same, considering how he'd have to reference the big dogs or not be true to the characters.

And it's why I'm betting that if Nightwing shows up, there's a strong chance it'll be with some though as to spin-off potential like with Barry.

 

[Fincher]

I can't speak to specific WB policy, but I'm not betting on any Green Arrow or Black Canary movies until Arrow is off the air. That's not to say that they can't appear in a Justice League movie, though. If a new Green Arrow isn't as good as The Arrow, he's just a supporting player, and it won't hurt the box office. If he's really awesome, it's not going to make Arrow fans suddenly stop watching.