Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[BlueLanternKal]

It was only funny the first time.

 

[Primal Slayer]

The twitter I linked to yesterday, interviewed Katie today (who was 3hrs late...yikes) and Katies attitude about the whole thing just puts another notch in her being dead.

She as much as put herself in the grave. She tried denying knowing who's in it. Then she compared it to losing Colin in S1.

She said its how television works, and its "taking one for the team".

She is the only Arrow cast member to get very somber when I asked her about the grave, no jokes, very serious.

She didn't actually say "she" was taking 1 for the team,she said "you know, it's taking one for the team" to clarify

https://***********/Felicitys_Arrow

 

[Omegabat]

The twitter I linked to yesterday, interviewed Katie today (who was 3hrs late...yikes) and Katies attitude about the whole thing just puts another notch in her being dead.





https://***********/Felicitys_Arrow

Yup,I'm convinced now.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I dont think it means much. The serious stuff could be intentional to throw people off it her?

 

[AspieXLDS]

This is a very interesting discussion. Allow me to contribute:

Firstly, the point on whether or not this show has adapted much from the GA comics. Here is a list of GA villains (both major and minor).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_Arrow_enemies

Here’s a comparison of GA elements that crop up, season-by-season.

Season 1:

- Oliver has the bow and green suit from the beginning.

- Oliver helps the little guy by getting stolen funds back, and righting wrongs done in other ways (like proving Peter Declan is innocent or helping take down Cyrus Vanch).

- One-off appearance of major GA villain Constantin Drakon, who is killed in the pilot.

- Two appearances by a version of Count Vertigo, a major GA villain.

- One-off appearance of a character (played by J. August Richards) which was their best attempt at Onomatopoeia. (1x20, Home Invasions) This is also a major GA villain.

- Introduced Slade Wilson/Deathstroke the Terminator in flashbacks as an ally/mentor of Oliver Queen, with the intent of eventually turning them against one another. Major GA villain as well as enemy to many in the Justice League.

- Introduced China White as a recurring minor villain. Major GA villain in the comics.

- The beginning of continual confrontations between Oliver Queen and Merlyn/The Dark Archer.

Season 2:

- Oliver begins using more trick arrows to make non-lethal takedowns in order to honor Tommy Merlyn’s memory.

- Brought Slade Wilson in as the mastermind of the latest plot against Starling City, but made what could have been a wonderful villain (Sebastian Blood/Brother Blood, leader of the Church of Blood) into a lackey, pushing Church of Blood elements out until the ‘tie in comics’ that hardly anyone reads. Also showed Slade’s descent into darkness in the flashbacks.

- Introduced Anatoly Knyasev in both the present and the flashbacks. A villain in the comics who occasionally fights the GA.

- Final confrontation with the Count.

- Merlyn is revealed to still be alive.

- A variation of the Star City Slayer, a minor GA villain, in the form of The Starling Slasher, who is nearly beaten to death by Mirakuru-Roy.

- The Clock King is a one-off villain. In the comics, a major GA villain. Oh, and let’s not forget he was listed as a ‘nemesis for Felicity’ rather than a villain for Oliver and Sara to take down.

- Introduced a variation of Solomon Grundy, a greater DC villain, but never paid it off despite establishing that even an arrow through the eye couldn’t take down someone on Mirakuru.

- Oliver takes Roy on as a student.

- Brief romance between Oliver and Sara Lance/The Canary.

Season 3:

- Minor villain Professor Steelgraves becomes Vincent Steelgrave, head of a smuggling crew. One-off villain is okay for this one.

- Komodo, major GA villain, becomes a one-off villain.

- Cupid, major GA villain, has three appearances.

- Brick, at least, is given his due, if only for 3 episodes.

- Ted Grant gets a brief appearance, but isn’t contracted to stay onboard and has to be written out by way of losing a fight. A loss for the BC subplot.

- Boxing glove arrow. One off appearance, done well.

- Merlyn becomes a major player again.

- Roy is Oliver’s partner.

- Thea evolves throughout the season and becomes Speedy at the end of the Season.

- Laurel likewise evolves, after her sister’s murder, to become the Black Canary.

Season 4:

- Oliver takes on the Green Arrow moniker, fights alongside Black Canary, Speedy, and John Diggle (who finally gets a codename in Episode 7).

- Trick arrows abound.

- Oliver begins a mayoral campaign.

- Samantha and William Clayton take the roles of Sandra and Connor Hawke.

Most of the storylines in Arrow, even during Season 1, were Batman-inspired storylines, despite the fact that one could find a list of suitable one-off villains/villains of the week with a quick Wiki search. All the League storylines are inspired by Batman.

Major villains for the GA were primarily reduced to one-offs, aside from Slade and Merlyn, who were (or remain) major players against Oliver. The Suicide Squad could have remained named Task Force X and used the one-off characters who weren’t killed. Lyla was the main person seen, and she is now the Director of ARGUS so they could still have used a variation of the Squad even if they had to kill Waller.

One major villain for the GA became a one-off character on “The Flash”, Hannibal Bates.

Arrow is split between wanting to be a poor man’s Batman (which is amusing since that was what he was initially conceived as) and being an epic love story (which falls short of being epic). There are nods to the comics, just the wrong comics.

As far as Olicity and the influence of the louder, more delusional minority (delusional is the better term rather than ******, as delusional people can be frightfully intelligent and some of the rabid ones are) are concerned: I can’t speak for everyone else making complaints, but my issue on this front is that this minority is, for the most part, deciding what we see.

If there wasn’t such an obvious influence on the showrunners and writers (as evidenced by Donna’s now-recurring role and romantic entanglement with Quentin, and the strong possibility that Laurel, perceived rival to Felicity despite claims to the contrary, is going to be killed off just to name a couple of things), I wouldn’t personally give a damn. But Guggenheim has, what, 80k followers on Twitter, most of which follow him on Tumblr as well and make those requests? There are over 4 million viewers of Arrow, yet less than half a million are being catered to.

 

[AspieXLDS]

@Primal Slayer: yikes.. though it could be more how Katie perceived that person interviewing her. Would she really want to play along much with a person who clearly doesn't like her character?

 

[AspieXLDS]

Wait... is that all from the person's twitter feed, written by them? I believe we covered this yesterday. They clearly aren't unbiased and will paint it as much as they can for their desires to come true. If they have video of said "interview", they should post it. Otherwise, its hearsay.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Yeah, people are dropping this show left and right. This isn't the only forums I've seen this happening on. A lot of ex-Arrow fans on the web that can't stand the shows current direction and gave up on it. It's basically become another generic CW show with a DC coat of paint.

 

[Omegabat]

This is a very interesting discussion. Allow me to contribute:

Firstly, the point on whether or not this show has adapted much from the GA comics. Here is a list of GA villains (both major and minor).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_Arrow_enemies

Here’s a comparison of GA elements that crop up, season-by-season.

Season 1:

- Oliver has the bow and green suit from the beginning.

- Oliver helps the little guy by getting stolen funds back, and righting wrongs done in other ways (like proving Peter Declan is innocent or helping take down Cyrus Vanch).

- One-off appearance of major GA villain Constantin Drakon, who is killed in the pilot.

- Two appearances by a version of Count Vertigo, a major GA villain.

- One-off appearance of a character (played by J. August Richards) which was their best attempt at Onomatopoeia. (1x20, Home Invasions) This is also a major GA villain.

- Introduced Slade Wilson/Deathstroke the Terminator in flashbacks as an ally/mentor of Oliver Queen, with the intent of eventually turning them against one another. Major GA villain as well as enemy to many in the Justice League.

- Introduced China White as a recurring minor villain. Major GA villain in the comics.

- The beginning of continual confrontations between Oliver Queen and Merlyn/The Dark Archer.

Season 2:

- Oliver begins using more trick arrows to make non-lethal takedowns in order to honor Tommy Merlyn’s memory.

- Brought Slade Wilson in as the mastermind of the latest plot against Starling City, but made what could have been a wonderful villain (Sebastian Blood/Brother Blood, leader of the Church of Blood) into a lackey, pushing Church of Blood elements out until the ‘tie in comics’ that hardly anyone reads. Also showed Slade’s descent into darkness in the flashbacks.

- Introduced Anatoly Knyasev in both the present and the flashbacks. A villain in the comics who occasionally fights the GA.

- Final confrontation with the Count.

- Merlyn is revealed to still be alive.

- A variation of the Star City Slayer, a minor GA villain, in the form of The Starling Slasher, who is nearly beaten to death by Mirakuru-Roy.

- The Clock King is a one-off villain. In the comics, a major GA villain. Oh, and let’s not forget he was listed as a ‘nemesis for Felicity’ rather than a villain for Oliver and Sara to take down.

- Introduced a variation of Solomon Grundy, a greater DC villain, but never paid it off despite establishing that even an arrow through the eye couldn’t take down someone on Mirakuru.

- Oliver takes Roy on as a student.

- Brief romance between Oliver and Sara Lance/The Canary.

Season 3:

- Minor villain Professor Steelgraves becomes Vincent Steelgrave, head of a smuggling crew. One-off villain is okay for this one.

- Komodo, major GA villain, becomes a one-off villain.

- Cupid, major GA villain, has three appearances.

- Brick, at least, is given his due, if only for 3 episodes.

- Ted Grant gets a brief appearance, but isn’t contracted to stay onboard and has to be written out by way of losing a fight. A loss for the BC subplot.

- Boxing glove arrow. One off appearance, done well.

- Merlyn becomes a major player again.

- Roy is Oliver’s partner.

- Thea evolves throughout the season and becomes Speedy at the end of the Season.

- Laurel likewise evolves, after her sister’s murder, to become the Black Canary.

Season 4:

- Oliver takes on the Green Arrow moniker, fights alongside Black Canary, Speedy, and John Diggle (who finally gets a codename in Episode 7).

- Trick arrows abound.

- Oliver begins a mayoral campaign.

- Samantha and William Clayton take the roles of Sandra and Connor Hawke.

Most of the storylines in Arrow, even during Season 1, were Batman-inspired storylines, despite the fact that one could find a list of suitable one-off villains/villains of the week with a quick Wiki search. All the League storylines are inspired by Batman.

Major villains for the GA were primarily reduced to one-offs, aside from Slade and Merlyn, who were (or remain) major players against Oliver. The Suicide Squad could have remained named Task Force X and used the one-off characters who weren’t killed. Lyla was the main person seen, and she is now the Director of ARGUS so they could still have used a variation of the Squad even if they had to kill Waller.

One major villain for the GA became a one-off character on “The Flash”, Hannibal Bates.

Arrow is split between wanting to be a poor man’s Batman (which is amusing since that was what he was initially conceived as) and being an epic love story (which falls short of being epic). There are nods to the comics, just the wrong comics.

As far as Olicity and the influence of the louder, more delusional minority (delusional is the better term rather than ******, as delusional people can be frightfully intelligent and some of the rabid ones are) are concerned: I can’t speak for everyone else making complaints, but my issue on this front is that this minority is, for the most part, deciding what we see.

If there wasn’t such an obvious influence on the showrunners and writers (as evidenced by Donna’s now-recurring role and romantic entanglement with Quentin, and the strong possibility that Laurel, perceived rival to Felicity despite claims to the contrary, is going to be killed off just to name a couple of things), I wouldn’t personally give a damn. But Guggenheim has, what, 80k followers on Twitter, most of which follow him on Tumblr as well and make those requests? There are over 4 million viewers of Arrow, yet less than half a million are being catered to.

Claps,this,so much this,oh btw Anatoli never met GA in the comics,neither did Ra's though,not that it matters but just saying.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I dont think it means much. The serious stuff could be intentional to throw people off it her?

I don't think it's intentional. Katie isn't really one to hide her feelings on things.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I don't think it's intentional. Katie isn't really one to hide her feelings on things.

then there probably a reason why she didn't joke with the rest of the cast. She wouldn't want to show she in the grave by being too serious?

 

[AspieXLDS]

Claps,this,so much this,oh btw Anatoli never met GA in the comics,neither did Ra's though,not that it matters but just saying.

Whoops, my bad. So he's just another element from 'other comics' that found his way in. Good to know.

 

[Slade W]

I just had a quick look at that persons twitter page and she said "ugh" over interviewing Katie Cassidy and that she does not like Black Canary. I am going to stick my neck out and take a guess here, and my guess is that this person does not like Katie and the character that she plays, and as a result is not unbiased when it comes to this. Just throwing that out there. That is not to say that it isn't Laurel in the grave, just that perhaps this person and their observations should not be taken too seriously. Just because she thinks it is Laurel, does not make it so. She may be guilty of seeing what she wants to see.

 

[AspieXLDS]

I don't think it's intentional. Katie isn't really one to hide her feelings on things.

Which makes her the best to play this version of Laurel Lance/BC.... *groans* So much wasted potential.

But if I recall, this particular issue (that she doesn't joke as much with the cast) has been touted as 'evidence' that the character will be leaving the show since Season 1. When she wasn't promoting the show as much during Season 2, I remember reading anti-Laurel fans (because there are some who aren't Olicity, just anti-Laurel) post the non-joking aspect of her as a reason, along with her not promoting the show. The thing is once she became more prominent again in Season 3 she promoted it.

Now, more than likely, with how things are playing out, she probably is in the grave. But you can bet that, 'assurances' from the show aside that this was the best decision 'for the story', it has more to do with a certain minority of fans wanting to get rid of the potential rival for their OTP, even though there's been no evidence until very recently of resurging feelings from Laurel for Oliver (and what there is hardly counts as evidence for more than friendship).

 

[Primal Slayer]

then there probably a reason why she didn't joke with the rest of the cast. She wouldn't want to show she in the grave by being too serious?

She's probably sad since she for sure didn't want to die and was enjoying her job so I think it just sucks for her to be answering these questions when she has to try to play around the question. She is like the SMG of Arrow, she doesn't play around as much as everyone else does and she is professional about her work.

I think they chose to kill her off because they just aren't interested in her character and she has the most vocal fans that want them to write the character closer to her comic counterpart which MG and co. hate to do 90% of the time. To me, it is very telling that apart from Oliver, everyone left over after Laurel dies is basically a "original" character that they are able to morph and do whatever they want with.

 

[AspieXLDS]

I just had a quick look at that persons twitter page and she said "ugh" over interviewing Katie Cassidy and that she does not like Black Canary. I am going to stick my neck out and take a guess here, and my guess is that this person does not like Katie and the character that she plays and as a result is not unbiased when it comes to this. Just throwing that out there. That is not to say that it isn't Laurel in the grave, just that perhaps this person and their observations should not be taken too seriously. Just because she thinks it is Laurel, does not make it so. She may be guilty of seeing what she wants to see.

Pretty much what I said earlier. It could be Laurel in the grave, but I highly doubt it is so easily revealed. More than likely, if Katie was acting that way, it was because the person in question was acting like they do on the Twitter feed while interviewing Katie. That would certainly make anyone, even boisterious Stephen Amell, react badly. In fact, I distinctly remember one of the few serious times SA told people off on his FB feed via a video. He was asking them not to photoshop EBR's face onto his wife's body in pictures he posted. The kind of attitude the person running that Twitter feed has is very similar in mindset to the people SA was telling off.

 

[Daltonio]

I just had a quick look at that persons twitter page and she said "ugh" over interviewing Katie Cassidy and that she does not like Black Canary.

Wow. Why even bother having an interview with her if that's the kind of attitude you're going to have?

 

[AspieXLDS]

She's probably sad since she for sure didn't want to die and was enjoying her job so I think it just sucks for her to be answering these questions when she has to try to play around the question. She is like the SMG of Arrow, she doesn't play around as much as everyone else does and she is professional about her work.

I agree. If it is her and she's trying to dance around the answer, she would be less joking as her companions. And like you said, she is more like SMG (Sarah Michelle Gellar, right?) of Arrow and doesn't play around as much. She's always been more professional in her dealings with fans. I guess that comes across as 'cold' to some when compared to SA and EBR. The difference, IMO, is that both SA and EBR are really not well-known prior to Arrow, whereas KC has been acting in both films and TV for a while. She doesn't have to sell herself as much as they do/did.

 

[AspieXLDS]

Wow. Why even bother having an interview with her if that's the kind of attitude you're going to have?

So they can claim they're "unbiased" because they were "willing" to interview someone they hate.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I just had a quick look at that persons twitter page and she said "ugh" over interviewing Katie Cassidy and that she does not like Black Canary. I am going to stick my neck out and take a guess here, and my guess is that this person does not like Katie and the character that she plays, and as a result is not unbiased when it comes to this. Just throwing that out there. That is not to say that it isn't Laurel in the grave, just that perhaps this person and their observations should not be taken too seriously. Just because she thinks it is Laurel, does not make it so. She may be guilty of seeing what she wants to see.

I going to treat it as a grain of salt since it not a reporter from one of the known entertainment sites. We don't know if she is lying about Katie/Laurel question so there is certainly bias. I rather not trust these unknown reporter since they might be one sided

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

She's probably sad since she for sure didn't want to die and was enjoying her job so I think it just sucks for her to be answering these questions when she has to try to play around the question. She is like the SMG of Arrow, she doesn't play around as much as everyone else does and she is professional about her work.

I think they chose to kill her off because they just aren't interested in her character and she has the most vocal fans that want them to write the character closer to her comic counterpart which MG and co. hate to do 90% of the time. To me, it is very telling that apart from Oliver, everyone left over after Laurel dies is basically a "original" character that they are able to morph and do whatever they want with.

I could see why since original character having little to no pressure to do the character right and they don't need to rely on source material. It suck because the Black Canary has a lot of history but choose not to use it

 

[Slade W]

I think they chose to kill her off because they just aren't interested in her character and she has the most vocal fans that want them to write the character closer to her comic counterpart which MG and co. hate to do 90% of the time. To me, it is very telling that apart from Oliver, everyone left over after Laurel dies is basically a "original" character that they are able to morph and do whatever they want with.

If the writers themselves did choose to do it, and it wasn't a decision from a higher up at DC/WB, then I think the fact that she is the least popular of the main characters will also have played its part. I am a big fan of Laurel, she is one of my absolute favourite characters on the show and has been since season 1, and I will be quite unhappy if she is killed off, but there is no denying that me, you and her other fans are in the minority. Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Sara, Roy and other characters went over better with the audiences (or at least that is how it seems to me). If she is killed, then it will upset the least amount of people, or so I would imagine.

 

[O'Haire]

I just had a quick look at that persons twitter page and she said "ugh" over interviewing Katie Cassidy and that she does not like Black Canary. I am going to stick my neck out and take a guess here, and my guess is that this person does not like Katie and the character that she plays, and as a result is not unbiased when it comes to this. Just throwing that out there. That is not to say that it isn't Laurel in the grave, just that perhaps this person and their observations should not be taken too seriously. Just because she thinks it is Laurel, does not make it so. She may be guilty of seeing what she wants to see.

Always find it odd when people that hate the character, hate the actress too like it's her fault. She's just doing her job and bringing to life the crap they wrote for her.

Do I hate the Felicity Smoak character? Yeah. Do I hate EBR? Hell no.

So I'm not going to be an ***hole about it if I ever interviewed her.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

If the writers themselves did choose to do it, and it wasn't a decision from a higher up at DC/WB, then I think the fact that she is the least popular of the main characters will also have played its part. I am a big fan of Laurel, she is one of my absolute favourite characters on the show and has been since season 1, and I will be quite unhappy if she is killed off, but there is no denying that me, you and her other fans are in the minority. Oliver, Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Sara, Roy and other characters went over better with the audiences (or at least that is how it seems to me). If she is killed, then it will upset the least amount of people, or so I would imagine.

Killing Laurel sounds like a cop out. Get rid of the least liked character to solve some of the hate. I don't think Laurel death will have a major impact that shake up the show forever. The death of OTA would be but I think both Felicity/Diggle are safe unless there some bait and switch

 

[Slade W]

Killing Laurel sounds like a cop out. Get rid of the least liked character to solve some of the hate. I don't think Laurel death will have a major impact that shake up the show forever. The death of OTA would be but I think both Felicity/Diggle are safe unless there some bait and switch

Well, the writers did say that they wanted to bring back the threat of death after the use of the Lazarus Pits last season. Laurel is a big character on the show and has been around for a long time. If they did indeed kill her, I imagine that it would give a lot of the audience the feeling that big characters can die. Now, I would say that for a lot of the die hard fans on here, that will not be enough and nothing less than Felicity's death would be enough to prove that there is a serious threat of death on the show. But, I reckon, that for most of the audience who do not overanalyse everything on the show like we do on here or on other forums, Laurel's death will be enough to bring that threat back, without upsetting too many people. I guess the writers feel that Felicity is too popular and as a result it is too risky to kill her off, so they go for a character that has not gone over as well with the audience. Whether they are right to think that is a different matter. I would honestly prefer if they keep Laurel, but this show is not just about catering to me.