Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Primal Slayer]

I can't believe they couldn't build a courtroom set at the studio. that is just stupid.

They could if it was more important to them but it wasn't. They already share sets with The Flash and have redone the same apartment about 3 times.

 

[raisethe3]

LOL, if courtroom scenes were too expensive, they could easily have Laurel drop the DA, open a flower shop over the new base of operation, that was a set they already had it, fake flowers would not be expensive. That would be a homage to the comics and would get them out of this problem. Or, she could open a martial arts gym, not one where she teachs at first, but one where she employs martial arts teachers. There, on her daylight time, her job would be training in different forms of martial art, every other episode we could see a member of team arrow training, and now when we see her on BC mode, she would be much more trained because that's really her life now. Their stunt team could play the extras on the background doing action stuff. Hell, her academy could gain a reputation of having great fighters, this could catchs Lady Shiva's attention and she could come to challenge ppl there to show she still is the best fighter. After a season Laurel could start giving self defense classes to young poor girls, there she would be hearing about injustice being done to the girls and could go after the responsible as BC by night. It's not really that hard....

Pretty spot on, I would agree. Great idea.

 

[Mikelus]

Berlanti, Guggenheim & co are their worst enemy indeed, like b boy said, if they would've been more faithful to the comics by having Laurel as the owner of her flower shop, the Sherwood Florist, they would've saved a lot of money and pain if the whole "very expensive" courtroom scenes statement is true. If only Warner TV and the CW would hire better producers and writers...

 

[regnak]

Guggenheim is becoming a legend even discussion of the Suicide Squad trailer involves him

http://imgur.com/N3AsNbc

 

[Dark Raven]

Anyone think Felicity might show up in Captain America Civil War?

 

[regnak]

Anyone think Felicity might show up in Captain America Civil War?

Cap"Tony, we must join together to fight the ultimate evil."


IM"Way ahead of you Steve!"


Felicity, "Oh ****!

t:

 

[haephestus]

I don't even understand how courtroom scenes are expensive so I'm not sure I believe him. Maybe paying for extras?

That's hilarious. I can't believe that part of their justification for killing off Laurel Lance is that "lawyers are boring" and "courthouses are expensive". If a legal storyline is boring, then that is due to the writers. Also, the show barely spends ANY time on the "day jobs" for the other members of Team Arrow.

Sure, this season Oliver, Thea and Diggle were all part of Oliver's mayoral campaign and Felicity has had a storyline at Palmer Tech, but it's pretty minimal. If they hated writing scenes of Laurel Lance: ADA, then just have her mention work in an off-hand manner (i.e. "geez, I had a tough day at work. I'm looking forward to working off some of that stress tonight").

Or, as others have suggested, they could have simply had Laurel change careers. She could have taken an in-house lawyer role at Palmer Tech. Or opened a flower shop. Or Team Arrow all could have agreed to establish some sort of business which would provide them with an appropriate cover for their vigilante activities and allow them freedom to work odd hours, show up covered in bruises, be regularly off sick due to injuries, etc.

 

[godisawesome]

It sounds like we're seeing yet more signs that even though, I believe, this show cast Cassidy first, they had no solid idea upon which to build her to become Black Canary. Her first season was a fairly typical idealistic lawyer portrayal that resembled Rachel Dawes more than anything else, then she just becomes a sometimes annoyingly bad portrayal of a prosecutor, then they had to (?) kill her sister to get her to become Black Canary, then when she's finally in a stable place that seems to be working, they kill her.

I still kind of feel the character was already showing signs of the problems that plagued her when they decided that "Laurel" was a better name than "Dinah"; it's not like either name is really modern and popular, so it really comes off as just thinking that the character needed to be the "CW Female Protagonist MK. 2" and they could make her be a comic character later.

 

[Batsfan1]

That's hilarious. I can't believe that part of their justification for killing off Laurel Lance is that "lawyers are boring" and "courthouses are expensive". If a legal storyline is boring, then that is due to the writers. Also, the show barely spends ANY time on the "day jobs" for the other members of Team Arrow.

Sure, this season Oliver, Thea and Diggle were all part of Oliver's mayoral campaign and Felicity has had a storyline at Palmer Tech, but it's pretty minimal. If they hated writing scenes of Laurel Lance: ADA, then just have her mention work in an off-hand manner (i.e. "geez, I had a tough day at work. I'm looking forward to working off some of that stress tonight").

Or, as others have suggested, they could have simply had Laurel change careers. She could have taken an in-house lawyer role at Palmer Tech. Or opened a flower shop. Or Team Arrow all could have agreed to establish some sort of business which would provide them with an appropriate cover for their vigilante activities and allow them freedom to work odd hours, show up covered in bruises, be regularly off sick due to injuries, etc.

It would have been so easy to have Laurel have this storyline this season. Her struggling with being a vigilante and a lawyer, only for her to eventually quit or something at some point or be fired because she can't be both. Laurel has been struggling with the law vs vigilantism since the beginning of the series and this could have been a conclusion to that arc. Then next up would be a her going full tilt Black Canary arc. At the end of this season or the beginning of next season she could get effected by something and get her canary cry. If Quentin was killed, they could have had her leave at the end of the season to train more vigorously because she couldn't protect her dad and believes she needs to be more disciplined in her skills. If the show had wanted to write her off, that would have been the easiest way to do it. Quentin is basically a pointless character at this point anyway. Get a new cop, maybe Mckenna Hall promoted now, and play out a more tension filled cop/vigilante, where there's a strained partnership, but not all out manhunt against them. They take out a character that's run it's course and bring in a non-white female police Captain, that'll go over fairly well with the demographic. Conclude Quentin's arc by having sacrifice himself to save Laurel, fully accept Oliver as a hero and bam, you've got yourself a satisfying conclusion to a character. And he has a far more believable reason to make Felicity be imbittered towards Darkh, his killer, because her mother's love has been killed, which would finally make sense of that storyline. So much better than the crap they pulled with Laurel. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Herolee10]

 

[Slade W]

It is funny/sad that the two strongest episodes in the last few months are the ones that have gotten the most criticism and complaints, mainly because of how they ended. It shows that they are still capable of putting out strong episodes, but then shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't even understand how courtroom scenes are expensive so I'm not sure I believe him

I assumed it had to do with where it was filmed. Any idea where that was?

 

[Reek]

this meme has changed my life.

Thank you.

I'm going to go away for awhile and contemplate things. Like how could I ever laugh again after seeing the funniest thing I will ever see?

See you, guys. I'll miss you.

 

[DeadFan]

I assumed it had to do with where it was filmed. Any idea where that was?

No idea. And true, he did seem to reference the expense in terms of being on location. However if from the get-go their plan was a female protagonist who was a lawyer & would be in court, then just build a set. I would think they could afford that, especially if it was a set that would be reused for several years. MG has no credibility w/ me, so until I hear from another showrunner another show that is expensive I'm very doubtful that was true or even had to be an impediment.

It is funny/sad that the two strongest episodes in the last few months are the ones that have gotten the most criticism and complaints, mainly because of how they ended. It shows that they are still capable of putting out strong episodes, but then shoot themselves in the foot.

I feel like they are so tone deaf w/ emotions and psychology & normal human reactions that it's like if they were cooks and they heard that a dish tasted good with just a sprinkle of salt, then they'd decide "well, then let's just pour the whole container of salt on the dish and that should make it even better, yeehaw!"

It sounds like we're seeing yet more signs that even though, I believe, this show cast Cassidy first, they had no solid idea upon which to build her to become Black Canary. Her first season was a fairly typical idealistic lawyer portrayal that resembled Rachel Dawes more than anything else, then she just becomes a sometimes annoyingly bad portrayal of a prosecutor, then they had to (?) kill her sister to get her to become Black Canary, then when she's finally in a stable place that seems to be working, they kill her.

I still kind of feel the character was already showing signs of the problems that plagued her when they decided that "Laurel" was a better name than "Dinah"; it's not like either name is really modern and popular, so it really comes off as just thinking that the character needed to be the "CW Female Protagonist MK. 2" and they could make her be a comic character later.

I think from the very beginning they made a HUGE mistake by having part of the story be that Oliver slept with Sara, cheating on Laurel. Again, as w/ my analogy of them over-using salt, it's like they wanted a conflict & got so wrapped up in how BIG could they make the conflict that they just totally went overboard. I could never want any female character that I like to be with a man that cheated on her with her sister. It would be like me wanting her to be a doormat and accept such behavior, when instead I would want her to feel good about herself and have a healthy sense of self-respect. I still cannot fathom how they put that in and NO ONE around them pointed out the problem with that!

So now it is silly to me that MG & writers think that a lot of people who are upset about killing BC are upset just b/c of shipping. True I am sure there are Laurivers out there who are upset b/c they wanted their "ship", but in my case, I never wanted Laurel w/ Oliver. I wanted her as a colleague, and I wanted her lawyer and vigilante storylines to help the show get back to crime/justice which I feel that it's gotten away from. His relationship w/ Felicity I don't care about -- just keep Felicity & the relationship minimized and more in background. I do not find Felicity to be a compelling character AT ALL and giving her more time just makes it worse, especially since she is handled in a very superficial way (paralysis story, anyone?). Anyway, given his insensitivity to emotions and human reactions, it does not surprise me at all that MG would dismiss all the "outrage" as just shipping.

 

[SpideyVille]

Something that has still bothered me is the fact that Felcity had a line a few episodes ago, where her mother was upset with Quentin, and instead of talking to him like a normal person would, her response is "What did you do? ... You're a man, of course you did something wrong!"

I don't understand how you can write a line like that for that kind of character, and expect it to go over well, especially when we already know why Quentin made the choice that he did, and how he was justified in feeling that lying to Donna to protect her was a better alternative than putting her in harm's way with Dhark.

 

[Syncos]

I think from the very beginning they made a HUGE mistake by having part of the story be that Oliver slept with Sara, cheating on Laurel. Again, as w/ my analogy of them over-using salt, it's like they wanted a conflict & got so wrapped up in how BIG could they make the conflict that they just totally went overboard. I could never want any female character that I like to be with a man that cheated on her with her sister. It would be like me wanting her to be a doormat and accept such behavior, when instead I would want her to feel good about herself and have a healthy sense of self-respect. I still cannot fathom how they put that in and NO ONE around them pointed out the problem with that!

I don't necessarily mind the idea of Oliver cheating on her with Sara. Though it would have probably been better if it was just some random girl he was sleeping with. The point was that Oliver WAS a terrible person.

Having him be "reborn" and come back and try to win back Laurel's trust was actually pretty compelling.

Something that has still bothered me is the fact that Felcity had a line a few episodes ago, where her mother was upset with Quentin, and instead of talking to him like a normal person would, her response is "What did you do? ... You're a man, of course you did something wrong!"

I don't understand how you can write a line like that for that kind of character, and expect it to go over well, especially when we already know why Quentin made the choice that he did, and how he was justified in feeling that lying to Donna to protect her was a better alternative than putting her in harm's way with Dhark.

This line also rubbed me the wrong way, but I understand its purpose. It was meant to be more of a reflection of how angry she was with Oliver, and not at all about Quentin.

Even though I totally think she is acting totally irrationally and out of character in this whole situation. It's like they're writing Felicity to be less likeable on purpose.

 

[Grommers]

I'm actually excited to see where this show goes now, I'm probably the minority on this site happy to see Laurel dead, but a lot of the friends I have are equally as happy. Yes I get it's not in-line with the comics, it was a crappy way to die, etc., but I feel this opens the door up for a different more legit badass character, considering they've butchered BC the entire series from casting choice to development to battle sequences.

I'm hoping they'll bring in Artemis soon.

 

[SpideyVille]

I'm actually excited to see where this show goes now, I'm probably the minority on this site happy to see Laurel dead, but a lot of the friends I have are equally as happy. Yes I get it's not in-line with the comics, it was a crappy way to die, etc., but I feel this opens the door up for a different more legit badass character, considering they've butchered BC the entire series from casting choice to development to battle sequences.

I'm hoping they'll bring in Artemis soon.

You see, the problem that these cancel each other out. Killing off Laurel is one thing, but then to keep her alive long enough to promote Olicity, and then awkwardly edit it so that what she said is a mystery, after building towards the mystery of who's in the grave all season are all signs that these guys just don't know what they're doing anymore when something doesn't revolve around Oliver and Felicity.

It doesn't matter who else they might bring in, they've shown time and time again in recent years that they are completely out of touch with what the core fans want. Laurel's death was supposed to be so big that it meant something moving forward, but ultimately, it was a pretty worthless death, considering she didn't have a close relationship to Oliver anymore, and could barely be considered his friend. Not to mention, the majority of her scenes were either cut or "too expensive" to make, so if that's how they're willing to treat their second lead, who is set to die (which is the same thing that happened with Roy leaving last season), what makes you think they would be able to bring in someone next season and give them their due diligence?

If anything, it really makes me hope that they don't bring in anyone else big, like Artemis or Zatanna or Blue Beetle. I can just see it now, they bring in Hal Jordan next season and he's locked in a love triangle with Felicity.

 

[WereCoyote]

I kinda would like to see the story out of Green arrow and Black Canary where GA and BC are hitched, Oliver has a bunch of illegitimate kids, and speedy was a hooker who caught the HIV.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I just want to know what tv has against Dinah Laurel Lance/Black Canary. Between Smallville and now this, oy vey.

 

[Paradox1]

I just want to know what tv has against Dinah Laurel Lance/Black Canary. Between Smallville and now this, oy vey.

JLU was good to her and Oliver but the live action tv version always want to reinvent the wheel.

 

[SpideyVille]

I just want to know what tv has against Dinah Laurel Lance/Black Canary. Between Smallville and now this, oy vey.

What about Birds of Prey?

[YT]MciUgqXOBrI[/YT]

 

[Syncos]

I just want to know what tv has against Dinah Laurel Lance/Black Canary. Between Smallville and now this, oy vey.

Say what you will about smallville. But at least that series had Oliver and Canary together in the end.

 

[SpideyVille]

Say what you will about smallville. But at least that series had Oliver and Canary together in the end.

No .. he got married to Chloe while he was drunk on Zatanna magic and decided not to get divorced and they ended up having a kid together.

 

[Nathan]

Which I didn't mind. I cared about the Smallville Canary only a little more than Laurel.