Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Gintoki]

I agree if you're going to stop, you should do it cold turkey–now. That'll make them see the ratings drop. Me, I'm going to continue, because I'm invested in the story and characters, but if you're going to drop, do it soon, not next season.

If you're unsatisfied even slightly with the direction which the show has taken, and find it less fun compared to previous seasons, best to watch it illegally. The ratings have to hurt bad, if there any is one percent change of the show improving, and getting on Season 2 level.

 

[batdude]

Ehhh, I wouldn't go that far. I've mentioned on many occasions how crazy some Chloe fans got and how the Olicity shippers seem to be approaching that point, but while they never messed with Superman canon, in regards to Chloe, Al Gough and Miles Miller definitely weren't in a rush to set him up with Lois. They loved Lana/Kristin Kreuk, and that's why they heavily featured her in some weird arcs.

But then Brian and Kelly took over, and while they finally pulled the trigger on a Clois ship, they were also huge fans of Chloe and definitely fed into those fans, which was a big reason why she got lead status until she left the show in season 10. At that point, Lois was the female lead because they just didn't have anyone else to fill that role, aside from Tess, who was only on the show for a couple of seasons at that point.

The big difference is they didn't kill Chloe or Lana off. I guess you could have claimed that Oliver and Laurel hooked up after Felicity left in that Legends episode. However, they don't have that way out now.

 

[zenith16]

"ARROW" SEASON 5 FLASHBACKS WILL EXPLORE OLIVER'S RUSSIAN CONNECTIONS

EPs Wendy Mericle and Marc Guggenheim explained why "Arrow" is "very much married" to its flashbacks and what they'll explore in season five.

"Arrow's" flashbacks are here to stay.​

According to executive producers Wendy Mericle and Marc Guggenheim, "Arrow's"flashbacks aren't going anywhere. The two explained to TVLine why the show's flashbacks are crucial to the story, the struggles they've encountered with the convention and where Oliver is headed in season five.

"The way we write the story is still very much married to that backstory, and trying to change it up at this point would feel weird," Mericle explained.
RELATED: "Arrow" Death Will 'Undo' One of Felicity's Recent Decisions


I don't want to tip too much, but it's a very good possibility that we'll finally find out how Oliver got that Bratva tattoo and how he learned to speak Russian," she added.
"Part of the appeal of the flashbacks -- certainly in the first two years, but I think the first three years -- is seeing what a big difference it is between Oliver Queen in the present day and Oliver Queen five years ago," Guggenheim said. "The problem is that we are telling a five-year story in the flashbacks of Oliver becoming the guy you met in the pilot.

So the deeper you get into the flashbacks, the closer he becomes to being that guy, and, thus, you lose that element of the flashbacks that was so interesting, which is how different he was…. That's something we have struggled with this year."
Starring Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards and David Ramsey, "Arrow" returns Wednesday, April 27 at 8 pm EST on The CW.​

Discuss this story in CBR's TV/Film forum. | 21 Comments​

TAGS: arrow, the cw, marc guggenheim, wendy mericle​

source: comic book resources


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[javonstokess]

I've decided that this season will be my swan song with the Arrow show. Too much Olicity, bad writing and the death of Black Canary was the last straw.

I'll still stick around for The Flash and MAYBE LoT (though that's floundering too).

 

[Jedi Arrow]

If you're unsatisfied even slightly with the direction which the show has taken, and find it less fun compared to previous seasons, best to watch it illegally. The ratings have to hurt bad, if there any is one percent change of the show improving, and getting on Season 2 level.

Yeah, I'm not going to watch it illegally, but I never watch it as it airs; I catch it on the CW website a couple days later. Does that still show up in their ratings? Yeah, sure, but I'm not going to go illegal, so it's the best way to do it. I do hope the show will return to S2 level eventually, and I do think the ratings will fall the next couple episodes, at least (though my guess is that the finale will see a big pickup). S5's flashbacks will at least be relevant to Oliver's 5-year story, so that'll be an improvement over the waste that this season's flashbacks have been, even though that's not even close to the show's worst problem.

 

[Slade W]

I agree if you're going to stop, you should do it cold turkey–now. That'll make them see the ratings drop. Me, I'm going to continue, because I'm invested in the story and characters, but if you're going to drop, do it soon, not next season.

 

[chamber-music]

Yahoo article Arrow - The Rise and Fall of Felicity Smoak
https://www.yahoo.com/news/arrow-th...k-090055760.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

Some solid constructive criticism of the shows faults.

 

[Slade W]

I don't necessarily agree with everything in that article, but it was a good, well written one. I can see where the person who wrote it is coming from and he didn't come out with hyperbole or the usual fanboy drivel. Fair play to him.

 

[SpideyVille]

I agree with it completely. The problem has never been the character/actress, it's the writing and what the show chooses to focus on in general.

 

[antsman41]

Flashbacks are ******** now.

Especially since they're too lazy to do the wig, considering his hair is 15-17 inches long when he's rescued in about a year off of the island and he had a full beard. Yet his hair at this point is short...

 

[Slade W]

Yeah, it is not just Felicity herself, it is how she is being written. It should be remembered that Felicity played a big part in season 2 and was considered a strongpoint in it by lots of people, and season 2 is considered the best season by most people. If they made the relationship more fun, rather than having it filled with drama all the time, people would enjoy it more and even care about it more. Then this current break-up they are going through would have had a bigger impact and would have been more meaningful to people. I reckon lots of fans would be hoping that they would get back together, rather than stay apart.

 

[Slade W]

Flashbacks are ******** now.

Especially since they're too lazy to do the wig, considering his hair is 15-17 inches long when he's rescued in about a year off of the island and he had a full beard. Yet his hair at this point is short...

I agree that the flashbacks have been bad this season and quite boring, but what you have mentioned is not anywhere near the top of my list of problems with them lol.

 

[Paradox1]

Yeah, it is not just Felicity herself, it is how she is being written. It should be remembered that Felicity played a big part in season 2 and was considered a strongpoint in it by lots of people, and season 2 is considered the best season by most people. If they made the relationship more fun, rather than having it filled with drama all the time, people would enjoy it more and even care about it more. Then this current break-up they are going through would have had a bigger impact and would have been more meaningful to people. I reckon lots of fans would be hoping that they would get back together, rather than stay apart.

Arrow writers don't know how to write the love interest of the hero. You mentioned season 2 Felicity but she was almost a different character. She was to Oliver what Ms. Moneypenney was to James Bond. When actuality the flirtation or the chase is more fun than them actually together. It's why fairy tales always end with the hero getting the girl and not actually watching them together.

 

[Dark Raven]

Was Flash back this week but not Arrow? I thought they normally come back at the same time. Why the delay with Arrow?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Was Flash back this week but not Arrow? I thought they normally come back at the same time. Why the delay with Arrow?

Because Arrow stuck around an extra week after Flash went on break.

 

[famicommander]

Was Flash back this week but not Arrow? I thought they normally come back at the same time. Why the delay with Arrow?

They had to give Flash a week off for the two hour iZombie finale. Probably because CW wanted to use Flash to prop up Containment's premiere.

 

[Kar]

Maybe when we start the Russian flashbacks Oliver will have been living there for some months to a year where he learns Russian and gets involved in the mob. I think they should do that then to just have it jump to immediately after season 4 flashbacks. Have him be settled in Russia for an extended amount of time, THEN bring him to the mob. (Maybe ARGUS tracks him down and recruits him again?)

The problem with the Flashbacks now is that they haven't been showing his evolution anymore. Season 3 was just him stopping the virus but we didn't see him really learning or training anything like when he was with Slade. Same for 4. We saw him try to be a vigilante for a second and he sucked at it (which is weird cause he seemed way more skilled on the island) and then he gets dumped back on the island again. And we still don't see anymore training. It went from his transformation to just him in messy situations. It's like "Where can we take Oliver Queen next?"

Season 5 has to return to those basics and show Oliver in training. Cause the way he is now is nowhere near season 1 Ollie. I'd say he's at 45%. Have some time pass between season 4 and 5 (almost a year at least) where he will be better at Russian and have longer hair. Somehow find a way to improve his fighting skills.

 

[Omegabat]

Thought I was going to stick around till the finale but after reading the description for monument point I'm bailing after Laurel's funeral. They're fully committed to being a Felicity show now, best to abandon this trainwreck. You'd think the last 3 episodes of the season would be immune from the Felicity crap.

 

[Gintoki]

Thought I was going to stick around till the finale but after reading the description for monument point I'm bailing after Laurel's funeral. They're fully committed to being a Felicity show now, best to abandon this trainwreck. You'd think the last 3 episodes of the season would be immune from the Felicity crap.

I'm considering the same.
I thought maybe now it would focus fully on HIVE, and Damien...but more Smoak Family drama? Wow.

 

[O'Haire]

Thought I was going to stick around till the finale but after reading the description for monument point I'm bailing after Laurel's funeral. They're fully committed to being a Felicity show now, best to abandon this trainwreck. You'd think the last 3 episodes of the season would be immune from the Felicity crap.

I'm considering the same.
I thought maybe now it would focus fully on HIVE, and Damien...but more Smoak Family drama? Wow.

 

[Fincher]

Yahoo article Arrow - The Rise and Fall of Felicity Smoak
https://www.yahoo.com/news/arrow-th...k-090055760.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw

Some solid constructive criticism of the shows faults.

As someone who "shipped" Oliver and Helena as much as I could be said to ship anyone on the show, I feel vindicated. There was a point on this forum where someone claimed that Oliver needs someone like Felicity in his life instead of someone who's too much like him, because she keeps him from descending into darkness. I was unmoved, but I can follow the reasoning...if the writers wanted a nice, happy relationship to balance things out. Early Felicity could have mooned over her hot boyfriend and packed him snacks for his nightly outings, and it would be nice and safe and cute and a refuge from the grimness of vigilante work.

Since the focus was on drama, though, Felicity had to change, and they had to come up with ways to inject problems into their relationship. Helena, though, was custom built for drama. A rocky relationship would be all but guaranteed, and there wouldn't be any illusions that she's a precious flower and it's all Oliver's fault.

 

[Slade W]

Anyone find it funny how DD had problems with Anarky taking someone's daughter as a hostage, but later on took William as a hostage? He also had no problems making threats to Quentin, regarding Laurel. I wonder was that a mistake that the writers made and just bad writing, or was it to show that DD was getting a bit desperate in those situations and was willing to take drastic measures to get what he wants, as well as him being a bit of a hypocrite. Neal McDonough said that DD would start off the season calm, in control, and as a very cool character, but over the course of the season, with Oliver and his team starting to gain some victories over him, would unravel and become more desperate, petty and crazy.

At the start of the season, when he was disgusted with Anarky, he thought he had everything in control, and that the Green Arrow and his team of fancy dress enthusiasts would be no match for him and would not cause him anywhere near as much trouble as they have, and that Oliver Queen would not have made things anywhere near as difficult as he did for his wife to become the new mayor. When things got tough for him, he had no problem breaking his supposed codes and hitting below the belt, and using whatever he could to get people to bow to his will in order to get what he wants.

You could see that when he killed Laurel, he was certainly acting a bit crazier than normal. Earlier on in the season, even when in battle, he generally kept his cool and made jokes. He made no attempt to hide his contempt for Laurel and the rest of Team Arrow in the prison, which is something I think he would have done earlier in the season. It would be nice if more explanations were given to make it clear if DD was breaking his supposed codes because he was desperate in those situations. It is hard to say if it was just bad writing, or intentional to show that DD was desperate and a bit of a hypocrite.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Im just mad that she didn't have a fighting chance.

 

[Slade W]

If he was trying to kill Oliver, and Laurel jumped in the way to give her own life to save his, that would have been better and a more fitting ending for her IMO (or at least the best way for her to have gone out in that scene that I can think of). I still think that it was a massive mistake to kill her off though, and I am still very unhappy about it.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Thought I was going to stick around till the finale but after reading the description for monument point I'm bailing after Laurel's funeral. They're fully committed to being a Felicity show now, best to abandon this trainwreck. You'd think the last 3 episodes of the season would be immune from the Felicity crap.

Eh? Do tell?