BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - Part 26

[shauner111]

You may be right that some people want fancy fight scenes. As for myself, I do not want that and hope we don't get a Batman who's doing a bunch of unnecessary, flashy flips and kicks. Nevertheless, I believe that their desire for that comes from the dull fight choreography we've gotten in every live action interpretation of Batman to date. I love TDKT, but they're not perfect and I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging the few shortcomings. Especially, when considering the ways this new interpretation can stand out from / improve upon the last one.

Fight choreography is the only thing they can improve upon. The rest is not about improvement, it's about doing something different for a different genre, different universe, different version of Batman where everything can be exaggerated. For the grounded universe Nolan had, certain limitations had to be put on his Batman, as well as his villains. Here we have a 20 year career for Bruce under the cowl, meaning more rogues by the dozens have come and gone. A more futuristic sci-fi genre/world means super-powered heroes, crazier gadgets/technology on suits and batmobiles. A more comic book universe means more CG, more exaggeration with the fighting. Let's not forget 3D for the first time, so Batman may feel even larger than life. They will need to up the ante with his intellect in order to match him with these superheroes.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Doubt it. A ton of people on here still hate on that sewer fight, while others like myself see it as the best comic book movie showdown they've seen. Even if something like Winter Soldier had better "choreography". I loved that too, but i felt more impact from the punches and more emotion with the sewer fight.

I can agree with this and I think it comes down to the directing more than the choreography itself. The sewer fight was very well directed and there was some real weight to that scene; a sense of dread hanging over it. That being said, I don't think the majority of TDKT's fight scenes were well directed. Nolan is an amazing director, but I don't think that's one of his strong suits. It might be blasphemy, but I think it's a justifiable criticism.

 

[shauner111]

I can agree with this and I think it comes down to the directing more than the choreography itself. The sewer fight was very well directed and there was some real weight to that scene; a sense of dread hanging over it. That being said, I don't think the majority of TDKT's fight scenes were well directed. Nolan is an amazing director, but I don't think that's one of his strong suits. It might be blasphemy, but I think it's a justifiable criticism.

I can agree with that. The fights and action in Inception may have been his best so far. Nolan is great with car chases though.

 

[shauner111]

I can't wait for you to be wrong.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Fight choreography is the only thing they can improve upon. The rest is not about improvement, it's about doing something different for a different genre, different universe, different version of Batman where everything can be exaggerated. For the grounded universe Nolan had, certain limitations had to be put on his Batman, as well as his villains. Here we have a 20 year career for Bruce under the cowl, meaning more rogues by the dozens have come and gone. A more futuristic sci-fi genre/world means super-powered heroes, crazier gadgets/technology on suits and batmobiles. A more comic book universe means more CG, more exaggeration with the fighting. Let's not forget 3D for the first time, so Batman may feel even larger than life. They will need to up the ante with his intellect in order to match him with these superheroes.

I don't think that's the only room for improvement. I think a different interpretation CAN be an improvement for many of the reasons you just listed. Without the limitations of being "grounded", there are more possibilities.

Also, I would add comic book visuals and Batman's characterization to that list, though all of this is largely preferential.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

I can agree with that. The fights and action in Inception may have been his best so far. Nolan is great with car chases though.

Now, that I can agree with 100%. The TDK chase scene was breathtaking, especially in IMAX!

 

[shauner111]

I don't think that's the only room for improvement. I think a different interpretation CAN be an improvement for many of the reasons you just listed. Without the limitations of being "grounded", there are more possibilities.

Also, I would add comic book visuals and Batman's characterization to that list, though all of this is largely preferential.

Yup, more possibilities. But i dont see them as improvements because it's not like Nolan set out to adapt it straight from the comics 100 percent, and tell his story, as it's told throughout his career in comics. From the get-go the purpose was to bring Batman to life but have him set in a real world without powers, fictional planets, just human beings. So the concept was about limiting him to planet earth. If his purpose was to do what Snyder wanted to do, and he fell short on the genius detective aspect or whatever, then i would agree with you. I would be saying "Snyder can improve on Nolans shortcomings". I only see fight choreography as a shortcoming. Everything else was on purpose. If Bale was a genius Sherlock Holmes type AND he's a 45 year old man, 20 years under the cowl, and he's still walking around looking like he hits the gym everyday and goes to his parties, builds his gadgets all in record time. Like it's no problem. Then i'd say "hey, timeout, that may be cool in the comics, but that's not true to what they established from the beginning in this universe".

 

[craigdbfan]

Typical. Most of the talk in here is about how much Nolan's bat movies suck, especially with the action. And every other comment is based around how cool the visuals are going to be when Snyder touches the character. Visual this, fighting that. Hmm. I wonder what the actual character will be like? Or the acting?

You always do this Shauner. Every time there's the slightest critique of the TDKT you get up in arms as if someone threw a baby off a cliff. I love TDKT and even suggested that TDK should be inducted into the National Film Registry a decade from now. That to me doesn't sound like someone who thinks that the trilogy sucked. However I can be objective about a great deal of the fighting choreography and the way it was filmed and say it could have been better. Much better in fact.

Most of the guys in here either like, love or absolutely respect TDKT yet you're making it seem like they're trashing it to no end when that's simply not the case. Critiquing one aspect of a great trilogy doesn't somehow mean you're trashing the films in their entirety.

 

[regwec]

Exactly so. If anything, the greatest compliment to TDKT is that most of us can comfortably poke fun at some of its inadequacies without having to add "but it is very good, though" with each instance for reassurance. It is a given that, on the whole, it is a good trilogy, particularly compared to other comic book movies. With that said, we can make an honest appraisal of what we, personally, disliked about it and what we hope will be done differently in BvS.

TDK was great. The fight scenes and Batsuit were crap. There we go.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

TDK was great. The fight scenes and Batsuit were crap. There we go.

And its settled!

 

[elgaz]

The fight scenes depend a lot on the physicality of the actor involved. Bale isn't a small guy at 6ft by any means, but he is definitely more lithe than Affleck and that suited the type of choreography they used for his Batman - lots of martial arts inspiration, high kicks, etc.

Affleck is bigger, wider, chunkier in the arms and so on. I see him as more of a powerhouse. And with his Bruce Wayne also being portrayed as a more 'seasoned' Batman who is no longer a young guy, I don't think they should have him fighting like a ninja with extreme dexterity and speed.

It reminds me somewhat of the start of training in the final Rocky film - they tell him speed is out, sparring is out, so he's got to rely on good old blunt force trauma. I want this Batman to be as agile a man as he can be for his age, but also to have a lot of strength and deliver big solid punches. In essence, I'd like it if some of his fighting was actually reminiscent of how Bane fought in TDKR. Maybe not quite as simplistic, but still conveying that feeling of power behind the punches.

 

[BatLobster]

Exactly so. If anything, the greatest compliment to TDKT is that most of us can comfortably poke fun at some of its inadequacies without having to add "but it is very good, though" with each instance for reassurance. It is a given that, on the whole, it is a good trilogy, particularly compared to other comic book movies. With that said, we can make an honest appraisal of what we, personally, disliked about it and what we hope will be done differently in BvS.

TDK was great. The fight scenes and Batsuit were crap. There we go.

You always do this Shauner. Every time there's the slightest critique of the TDKT you get up in arms as if someone threw a baby off a cliff. I love TDKT and even suggested that TDK should be inducted into the National Film Registry a decade from now. That to me doesn't sound like someone who thinks that the trilogy sucked. However I can be objective about a great deal of the fighting choreography and the way it was filmed and say it could have been better. Much better in fact.

Most of the guys in here either like, love or absolutely respect TDKT yet you're making it seem like they're trashing it to no end when that's simply not the case. Critiquing one aspect of a great trilogy doesn't somehow mean you're trashing the films in their entirety.

This is perfectly reasonable and totally understandable. However, I think you guys are giving some other people here a little too much credit...the constant, repetitive, mocking nature of it gets numbing after a while and it's clear that some keep doing it just to spite others. It's become something of a pastime here, and IMO it's run amuck.

Anyway, s'all good. As far as the fight scenes go...hell yeah I'm excited to see what Snyder puts on screen.

 

[Naked Shia]

There are several fights scenes with some good choreography in BB (but bad editing), and the first fight against Bane in TDKR is really great. There is tension, it's well shot and edited, and the choreography itself is quite good.

That said, Snyder and his team are really really good when it comes to fight scenes, and I have high hopes for the way batman will fight.

 

[shauner111]

You always do this Shauner. Every time there's the slightest critique of the TDKT you get up in arms as if someone threw a baby off a cliff. I love TDKT and even suggested that TDK should be inducted into the National Film Registry a decade from now. That to me doesn't sound like someone who thinks that the trilogy sucked. However I can be objective about a great deal of the fighting choreography and the way it was filmed and say it could have been better. Much better in fact.

Most of the guys in here either like, love or absolutely respect TDKT yet you're making it seem like they're trashing it to no end when that's simply not the case. Critiquing one aspect of a great trilogy doesn't somehow mean you're trashing the films in their entirety.

It's not just a critique though, it's a constant trashing of it with countless gif's, jokes, etc (which have been posted for 2 years now non-stop). Hey, im not saying we can't post funny gif's since i do it too. But when it's about the same topic over and over, and people respond with sarcasm constantly, it gets annoying. Why? Because a defender of the trilogy then feels like it's some sort of crime to post something positive about it. Anyways it's all good, im moving on from being bothered by it. Have your fun guys. But don't come down on me when i start posting gif's making fun of Snyders weakness'. It should go both ways. If people are allowed to be repetitive in their mockery, a person should be allowed to defend with repetition as well.

 

[Kane52630]

Don't we already make fun of Snyder's "weakness"? People joke about his overuse of slo-mo all the time...he doesn't get any fairer treatment than Nolan.

 

[chamber-music]

I think everyone here is taking all this a little....too....seriously....

They're just movies, people. There's way too much philosophy, politics, and overall emotion going on here about something that is simply entertainment.

Don't come in hear talking logic and making sense.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Won't lie, I never had a problem with how Batman fought in Nolan or Burton's films.

If I do, my only problem is how the fight scenes were filmed in Batman Begins. I understand why. Nolan said he wanted it to be like a first person POV of seeing Batman move so fast that it looks blurry.

But at the same time, I'm 12 years old (when Batman Begins came out) and I want to clearly see Batman fight. That shouldn't be a big request.

 

[shauner111]

Don't we already make fun of Snyder's "weakness"? People joke about his overuse of slo-mo all the time...he doesn't get any fairer treatment than Nolan.

I joke about it too. We do that. But it's not constant with the same GIF over and over. We've seen it already, give me some new gif's. Do something fresh. It's like an old joke being told again and again. One tends to roll their eyes.

 

[chamber-music]

I think the past suits which by all accounts were rather restrictive for the actors/stuntmen probably limited the fighting choreography in the past.

Actors couldn't even turn their heads in the Batman suits until The Dark Knight.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I joke about it too. We do that. But it's not constant with the same GIF over and over. We've seen it already, give me some new gif's. Do something fresh. It's like an old joke being told again and again. One tends to roll their eyes.

no worries, Interstellar comes out soon

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

It's not just a critique though, it's a constant trashing of it with countless gif's, jokes, etc (which have been posted for 2 years now non-stop). Hey, im not saying we can't post funny gif's since i do it too. But when it's about the same topic over and over, and people respond with sarcasm constantly, it gets annoying. Why? Because a defender of the trilogy then feels like it's some sort of crime to post something positive about it. Anyways it's all good, im moving on from being bothered by it. Have your fun guys. But don't come down on me when i start posting gif's making fun of Snyders weakness'. It should go both ways. If people are allowed to be repetitive in their mockery, a person should be allowed to defend with repetition as well.

But it's all so repetitive when you get upset by said gifs and sarcasm all the time. You've made your point the first few times and it's not worth it to continue to defend said gifs and jokes about the fighting. It gets tiring, you should just ignore them. Don't fuel the repetitiveness of them. As for me, when it comes to the fights in the Nolan Batman trilogy, I didn't really care for them. It wasn't stand out or perfect but nor was it the worst. The fights didn't need to be perfect to make the films enjoyable anyway.

 

[Kane52630]

I joke about it too. We do that. But it's not constant with the same GIF over and over. We've seen it already, give me some new gif's. Do something fresh. It's like an old joke being told again and again. One tends to roll their eyes.

So the problem is a gif...a single gif? really?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

the nolan movies obviously mean a lot to him, I'd probably be kinda tired of it too if something from one of my favorite films was made fun of every other day.

but with that said, NO MORE DEAD COPS

 

[Travesty]

Comes in and tells us not to talk about fights and visuals, goes off and talks nothing but fights and visuals.

Some people are just way too hard to please.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I don't get mad if someone says anything negative about the Nolan films. I love them but they aren't the only source of Batman I love. I probably love BTAS and the Arkham games more then Nolan's take and I also love Burton's take.

I do get pissed over people saying and think Webb's TASM films are better then Raimi's since the first time I got into Spidey was my uncle taking me, my mom, and my brother (dad was out of town) to Spider-Man 2 and I loved it.

Oddly enough the same Uncle gave me my first Batman and Robin figures for me on my 2nd or 3rd birthday and that got me into Batman.